Quantum vs. SPECTRE

I've noticed a lot of discussions on different Bond websites comparing Quantum to SPECTRE. Much of the conversation is that Quantum is nothing more than a SPECTRE expy, and if they had the rights, they would have called it SPECTRE. For me, that doesn't really work.

I have to applaud the filmmakers for making a far superior evil organization.

With all respects to Fleming, SPECTRE isn't really that great of an evil organization. If I recall, the Thunderball novel established that SPECTRE was far from a permanent organization, instead it was a one-off or short run operation. When the ransom plan failed, they split up. Blofeld went on to private run operations, at Piz Gloria and later Japan. SPECTRE was really nothing more than a plan, not so much an organization, concocted by a collection of villainous groups. Of course, in the films, SPECTRE lasted much longer, and was a far more permanent organization. An interesting thing about SPECTRE was how open they were. They were very much in the open, with public ransoms and operations.

Quantum on the other hand is far more devious, and IMHO, far scarier. They're a permanent group, and QoS gave the impression that they have been around for a while. They're CEOs and politicians, movers and shakers secretly exploiting nations and organizations for their own profit. One of the greatest ideas from QoS, even if it was never extrapolated on like so many of the concepts in it, was that Quantum would take different nations, use them, and then pretty much cast them aside when they were done. Haiti vs. Bolivia was a great idea. And they worked in secret. It was a brilliant idea, the secret back door deals and intimidation that made international decisions.

SPECTRE was a plot that got stretched into an organization by EON Films, but really never worked beyond their initial literary purpose. Quantum though, that is a genius, creepy idea that works very well with the modern Bond. I have a ton of problems with QoS, but I do hope the producers bring back Quantum again in some form in later films, because the concept is too good to abandon.
"You're both, what's the expression? Damaged goods."

Comments

  • Rick RobertsRick Roberts Posts: 536MI6 Agent
    edited August 2009
    You are dead on with your summary Infernorhythm. SPECTRE was simply Blofeld's project while Quantum is far more intricate in it's design. Fleming's only intent with the SPECTRE/Blofeld trilogy was to build up a great character that explodes into a tense, final confrontation. However I do think EON did a great job with SPECTRE in DR.NO, FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE, THUNDERBALL, and ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE to a certain extent. They unfortunately became way too cartoony in YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE and DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER, their power became far too ridiculous to believe.

    I think Quantum is so interesting because they don't have armies of thugs or henchmen, they just have the right people in the right places. All the muscle they use is police or military ordered by the people they deal with like in this case, the CIA or men loyal to an ousted dictator. There is little to tie them in with and hence the reason it's a true shadow orginization.
  • thesecretagentthesecretagent CornwallPosts: 2,151MI6 Agent
    I think Quantum is a far better concept for these times - having people everywhere is truely menacing, like mafia-related crime bosses of the seventies and eighties having young men join the police solely to have a man on the inside for when the need arises. Or those doctors behind the Glasgow airport bombing attempt - they had been here for a long time, and had made genuine friends at work and socially, all the time plotting for al'Qeada.
    I hope the film-makers don't solely concentrate on Quantum though, just keep it simmering for a couple of films down the line.
    Amazon #1 Bestselling Author. If you enjoy crime, espionage, action and fast-moving thrillers follow this link:

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  • Colonel ShatnerColonel Shatner Chavtastic Bristol, BritainPosts: 574MI6 Agent
    In the original Thunderball novel the SPECTRE syndicate, while still dangerous and well funded, was less than a decade old and their hijacking of RAF nukes was their last job. Movie SPECTRE was larger than life and more powerful, but was easily parodied in 80s cartoons like G.I. Joe and Inspector Gadget.

    Quantum seem hard to define and they're still very mysterious. How old are they? Who is their leader? What is their master plan? How deep have they infiltrated the governments and intelligence agencies?
    'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...'
  • Rick RobertsRick Roberts Posts: 536MI6 Agent
    Quantum seem hard to define and they're still very mysterious. How old are they? Who is their leader? What is their master plan? How deep have they infiltrated the governments and intelligence agencies?

    Hopefully this all be answered but I had an idea for the master plan. I'll post it in the Bond 23 ideas thread.
  • SB_DiamondSB_Diamond North Miami Beach, FLPosts: 126MI6 Agent
    I agree with thesecretagent, I think the way they went about presenting Quantum as this worldwide villainous entity solidifies the need for a man like 007 to exist, where in past films having Bond make that transition into what's present and relevant was more of a challenge to the character like when M says to Brosnan's Bond, "You are a relic of the Cold War." I do hope they develop Quantum further so we can delve deeper into the espionage aspect of the Connery films. Then we can get all nostalgic over the resemblances to the golden age Bond we love so much. Great thread by the way ;)
    *~Orbis Non Sufficit~*
  • Colonel ShatnerColonel Shatner Chavtastic Bristol, BritainPosts: 574MI6 Agent
    Quantum is more dangerous than SPECTRE, since Quantum is practically unknown amongst the Western intelligence agencies, despite being in the age of the Internet and commercial satellites. Even in the books, SPECTRE was fairly well known about by MI6.
    'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...'
  • Smoke_13Smoke_13 Kitchener Ont CanadaPosts: 285MI6 Agent
    For me, Quantum has always had a measurable quality to it, while Spectre seems a bit more well, ghost like.

    Seriously now, this is a great thread. Quantum is by far the more superior organization. The whole "I've got nukes or a satellite capable of destroying New York" unless I get 1,000,000,000 dollars is just too far fetched.

    However, high ranking leaders of industry and politicians etc. getting their resources together and creating a secret society for the sole purpose of making money for themselves makes complete sense. Hell, there's several conspiracy theorists out there that would argue that the exact thing is occurring in our world today. There's talk of secret organizations like the NWO, there's peopel that theorize the Iraq war with the US is all about oil control. So I tip my hat to the creators of Quantum -a villainous group that reflects the times we live in.

    I see in future films that Bond will work his way up through the Quantum ranks and keep finding someone more powerful and cunning than the last. The greatest thing about Quantum is that it's not just a group of people, it's an ideal that these corrupt individuals share. You kill the leader of Quantum and the organization will still go on, they'll just appoint a new leader from the ranks. The possibilities for this group and Bond now are endless.
  • zebondzebond DolletPosts: 103MI6 Agent
    I think time will tell, Quantum has only just been introduced, so the full extent of their prowess is yet to be seen. The fact that MI6 knew very well of SPECTRE only tells me SPECTRE was even more powerful. Here's an organization that they know everything about, yet they're completely powerless against them. Now that we know about Quantum (a little anyhow) it'll be interesting to see how easily they are taken down, or over how many movies it is drug out. Like M said, we know now, and we're quick learners.
    "Guns make me nervous!"
  • Colonel ShatnerColonel Shatner Chavtastic Bristol, BritainPosts: 574MI6 Agent
    Quantum seem more sturdy than SPECTRE if they have no central kingpin and being secret in spite of their size is quite a feat to pull off. I doubt busting one of their minor field agents and taking a few photos of their board members at an opera is going to shut the syndicate down.
    'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...'
  • Bond Fan_007Bond Fan_007 Posts: 21MI6 Agent
    SPECTRE is way better
    Bring Back Pierce Brosnan!
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,239MI6 Agent
    Quantum has the potential to be more interesting than Spectre. And the whole conspiracy thing isn't that much different to the KGB and Reds under the Beds paranoia of the Cold War, which we can recall, was what we had in the novel Casino Royale. That sense that anyone might be a KGB informer; even Harold Wilson the British PM was a suspect by some.

    On the other hand, the whole conspiracy thing can seem a bit nuts and you never get to the bottom of it. It's like those people who have a thing about the Freemasons... It's not as emotionally uplifting as battling a straightforward villain you can defeat.
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • thesecretagentthesecretagent CornwallPosts: 2,151MI6 Agent
    SPECTRE is way better

    Care to elaborate?
    Amazon #1 Bestselling Author. If you enjoy crime, espionage, action and fast-moving thrillers follow this link:

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  • Hannibal_SmithHannibal_Smith Posts: 14MI6 Agent
    The reason Quantum's so much more unsettling is the "we have met the enemy and they are us" thing.

    SPECTRE was an external threat, a group of criminals who were attacking and threatening the West from the outside. Whereas Quantum's woven into the fabric of the very society Bond is trying to defend. M uncovers a high-ranking member of the conspiracy and it turns out he's a "special adviser to the Prime Minister" - what are you supposed to do when your enemy is your own boss?

    It was a great concept, and I'm very much looking forward to seeing how they handle it.
  • Hannibal_SmithHannibal_Smith Posts: 14MI6 Agent
    Also, they're both a product of their era; SPECTRE came from the 1960s, when organized crime was being hunted down by law enforcement all over the West, while big government and spy agencies (e.g. James Bond) had the full faith of the public.

    Quantum came from the 2000s, a much murkier time, when public faith in government and intelligence is at an all time low, which makes "the enemy at the top" (like the Syndicate in X-files, Palpatine in the Star Wars prequels, Cobra in the new G. I. Joe movie) a bad guy of choice.
  • bigzilchobigzilcho Toronto, ONPosts: 245MI6 Agent
    All good points by everyone, but as far as I'm concerned Quantum is just a shadow organization unworthy of yet being compared to the legendary SPECTRE.

    The reason? A gentleman by the name of Ernst Stavro Blofeld.

    He was the face, character and menace of SPECTRE.

    Until Quantum reveals the head man (or woman?) for Bond to go up against, comparisons are invalid. Bond (and the series) needs Quantum. And a new Blofeld.

    The type of villian that makes men like Stromberg, Drax and Zorin feel like second-class upstarts. I'm talking big here, folks. Amateurs like Whittaker and Kristatos need not apply.

    A big man with big plans. Remember when Goldfinger yells out:"EXCEPT CRIME!": that's the kind of vision that the series should demand of its villians. Bad-guys that are worthy to go up against the world's greatest secret agent.

    Anybody who dismisses that Bond villians shouldn't be larger than life should take a serious read of Fleming. And quick.

    He didn't write big villians. He wrote some of the BIGGEST villians in the history of fiction.

    Bond deserves to go against up the world's smartest and toughest bad guys. Anything less is an insult to 007.

    So far, so good for Quantum but I like my Bond villians face-to-face and, eventually, the curtain must rise on Quantum's big cheese.

    And only then, will we know if Quantum deserves to be mentioned alongside SPECTRE.


    "Of course, SPECTRE. Then it wasn't a Russian show, after all."
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,988Quartermasters
    I think you're right, BZ---and I also think Eon has done the right thing in doing a gradual 'reveal,' here. IMRO, #23 should be the payoff. Here's hoping {[]
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,239MI6 Agent
    Sorry Loeffs, but Quantum are obviously more powerful than we could have imagined...

    They've put the kibbosh on Bond 23, after all... :#
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • SilentSpySilentSpy Private Exotic AreaPosts: 765MI6 Agent
    I prefer SPECTRE so far. Dr. No and From Russia with Love are two perfect movies dealing with them. Quantum is an interesting idea but not fully realized yet. Maybe if Quantum of Solace was a better movie then they would be somewhat on par with SPECTRE. Greene reminds me of the guy who gets killed by Blofeld at the meeting in the beginning of Thunderball. Quantum can't compare with From Russia with Love. So, whatever happens with the third Quantum movie, it has to be amazing because the third SPECTRE movie was Thunderball...
    "Better late than never."
  • Quantum, for me, are considerably more threatening simply because all we know is that they "have people everywhere" and we don't know anything else about them. They're far more subtle, far more efficient and far more dangerous because of it. All we know is their name, that Mr White works for them and that the have a man in the Prime Minister's office. Nothing is scarier than what you can't see, remember.

    SPECTRE is the stuff of legend, but when you call yourself the "SPecial Executive for Counter-intelligence, Terrorism, Revenge and Extortion" then yeah, you're not what one could call subtle about your evilness. Not knocking it, but it's a little cartoonish compared to Quantum - especially in the later Blofeld/SPECTRE era, when everyone seems to know about them and their increasingly OTT plots to destroy the world. SPECTRE was far more intimidating when it was a collection of suits led by a guy whose face we never see than it was when it consisted of henchmen in jumpsuits and wacky SciFi schemes.
    That's a Smith and Wesson, and you've had your six.
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