observations on SKYFALL -- spoilers

135

Comments

  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 26,417Chief of Staff
    Gala Brand wrote:
    I bet you're having a real problem with the Sherlock Holmes ouevre. Now we have a Watson who is female and Holmes who is gay/a drug addict/a possible sociopath.

    Sherlock is gay ? What have you been watching ? Certainly NOT Elementary !
    YNWA 97
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    I think most Americans see being British as Gay. :p :))
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    Aren't they? :D
    That would be very surprising for me and I have to rethink Petes entire behaviour then over again :p
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • minigeffminigeff EnglandPosts: 7,884MI6 Agent
    Bondtoys wrote:
    Aren't they? :D
    That would be very surprising for me and I have to rethink Petes entire behaviour then over again :p

    Apparently when it comes to 'hide the brockwurst' you taught everything he knows :o
    'Force feeding AJB humour and banter since 2009'
    Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk
    www.cancerresearchuk.org
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    It's called BOCKWURST, mate ;)
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • minigeffminigeff EnglandPosts: 7,884MI6 Agent
    COCKworst more like :))
    'Force feeding AJB humour and banter since 2009'
    Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk
    www.cancerresearchuk.org
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    8-)

    Now the red light on Sir Miles computer ( when the report button has been hit....) is going overload - again!
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • minigeffminigeff EnglandPosts: 7,884MI6 Agent
    Bondtoys wrote:
    8-)

    Now the red light on Sir Miles computer ( when the report button has been hit....) is going overload - again!

    :)) when pig goes on ajb, sir miles' computer lights up like Christmas tree.
    'Force feeding AJB humour and banter since 2009'
    Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk
    www.cancerresearchuk.org
  • Gala BrandGala Brand Posts: 1,172MI6 Agent
    Sir Miles wrote:
    Gala Brand wrote:
    I bet you're having a real problem with the Sherlock Holmes ouevre. Now we have a Watson who is female and Holmes who is gay/a drug addict/a possible sociopath.

    Sherlock is gay ? What have you been watching ? Certainly NOT Elementary !


    See "The Private Life of Sherlock Homes" (great movie). The current "Sherlock" series and the Robert Downey, Jr. movies have a whole "is he gay or not" subtext. It's related to Holmes's general dislike for women, his attitude towards marriage, and his relationship with Watson.
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    Gala Brand wrote:
    Sir Miles wrote:
    Gala Brand wrote:
    I bet you're having a real problem with the Sherlock Holmes ouevre. Now we have a Watson who is female and Holmes who is gay/a drug addict/a possible sociopath.

    Sherlock is gay ? What have you been watching ? Certainly NOT Elementary !


    See "The Private Life of Sherlock Homes" (great movie). The current "Sherlock" series and the Robert Downey, Jr. movies have a whole "is he gay or not" subtext. It's related to Holmes's general dislike for women, his attitude towards marriage, and his relationship with Watson.

    Isn't that a tad over - interpreted?
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 26,417Chief of Staff
    Gala Brand wrote:
    Sir Miles wrote:
    Gala Brand wrote:
    I bet you're having a real problem with the Sherlock Holmes ouevre. Now we have a Watson who is female and Holmes who is gay/a drug addict/a possible sociopath.

    Sherlock is gay ? What have you been watching ? Certainly NOT Elementary !


    See "The Private Life of Sherlock Homes" (great movie). The current "Sherlock" series and the Robert Downey, Jr. movies have a whole "is he gay or not" subtext. It's related to Holmes's general dislike for women, his attitude towards marriage, and his relationship with Watson.

    Sphericals !!

    I think you have missed the WHOLE point of Sherlock Holmes :s

    Check out Irene Adler and what she means to Holmes....

    And in Elementary Watson IS a woman !
    YNWA 97
  • Gala BrandGala Brand Posts: 1,172MI6 Agent
    Sir Miles wrote:
    Gala Brand wrote:
    Sir Miles wrote:

    Sherlock is gay ? What have you been watching ? Certainly NOT Elementary !


    See "The Private Life of Sherlock Homes" (great movie). The current "Sherlock" series and the Robert Downey, Jr. movies have a whole "is he gay or not" subtext. It's related to Holmes's general dislike for women, his attitude towards marriage, and his relationship with Watson.

    Sphericals !!

    I think you have missed the WHOLE point of Sherlock Holmes :s

    Check out Irene Adler and what she means to Holmes....

    And in Elementary Watson IS a woman !


    He respected Adler for her intellect, even though she was a woman.

    I thought the idea that Holmes might be gay was pretty well known. Here the subject is beaten to death:

    http://www.nekosmuse.com/sherlockholmes/subtext.htm

    And then there's this:

    http://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/00029874.html

    Not to mention this:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1296997/Sherlock-Holmes-modern-mystery-Could-Watson-gay.html
  • minigeffminigeff EnglandPosts: 7,884MI6 Agent
    Am I on the wrong forum? :s
    'Force feeding AJB humour and banter since 2009'
    Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk
    www.cancerresearchuk.org
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 26,417Chief of Staff
    minigeff wrote:
    Am I on the wrong forum? :s

    Lots of people have said that to me about you for years :v :))
    YNWA 97
  • minigeffminigeff EnglandPosts: 7,884MI6 Agent
    Sir Miles wrote:
    minigeff wrote:
    Am I on the wrong forum? :s

    Lots of people have said that to me about you for years :v :))

    Hey if there was a Fischer Price forum I'd be right there.
    'Force feeding AJB humour and banter since 2009'
    Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk
    www.cancerresearchuk.org
  • Colonel PinstripeColonel Pinstripe UKPosts: 52MI6 Agent
    minigeff wrote:
    minigeff wrote:
    As for the whole 'M being the mother figure', this theme has been around as long as Dench has played M. For it to be fully 'admitted', 'acknowledged' etc is no big deal for me. It's just part of the characters relationship and the plot, so what's the big deal? M acts as a mother figure to orphan James.... AND? Big deal.

    That's not the way the character was written by Fleming. Hell, M isn't even supposed to be a woman! At least if the producers are going down that route in the name of political correctness, then at least make her every bit Bond's boss as Bernard Lee was, as opposed to an overbearing mother.

    Ok, hold on a minute and you might wanna sit down.

    Ian Fleming is dead.

    In fact, he's been pushing up daisys for quite some time now. I know this is gonna be a right kick in the balls, so I'm sorry, but after his death, quite a few people have been writing bond books and films, and they've brought the character and the whole franchise into the 21st century.

    I suppose you'll be tearful with the thought of no more "man talk (slap)" or "fetch my shoes" scenes?

    Welcome to 2012.

    I've arrived here by following a link provided by another member and I'm truly astounded by such ignorance and lack of respect for Ian Fleming on here. Thank you for that response. You've obviously never read a page of Fleming in your life; that's obvious. You make Ian Fleming sound like a terrible misogynist when in reality he often treated his female characters with tact, respect and dignity. Don't let the writing of Richard Maibaum obscure the facts.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Here we go again. :#
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • always shakenalways shaken LondonPosts: 6,287MI6 Agent
    Getting back to the original argument, I agree with our friend minigeff,
    the characters have to evolve to keep pace with the current time
    yes of course in Flemings day a woman head of any Government dept
    would be laughable (hence the phrase the old boy network ) boy being the operative word
    if Bond hadn't have kept up we would still have all ex retired military/public school types running things
    thank god we have a Felix leiter being played by black actors ,otherwise the Americans would have
    law enforcement agencies run on the line of "They call me Mr Tibbs " keep up for gods sake
    By the way, did I tell you, I was "Mad"?
  • Charmed & DangerousCharmed & Dangerous Posts: 7,358MI6 Agent
    minigeff wrote:

    That's not the way the character was written by Fleming. Hell, M isn't even supposed to be a woman! At least if the producers are going down that route in the name of political correctness, then at least make her every bit Bond's boss as Bernard Lee was, as opposed to an overbearing mother.

    Ok, hold on a minute and you might wanna sit down.

    Ian Fleming is dead.

    In fact, he's been pushing up daisys for quite some time now. I know this is gonna be a right kick in the balls, so I'm sorry, but after his death, quite a few people have been writing bond books and films, and they've brought the character and the whole franchise into the 21st century.

    I suppose you'll be tearful with the thought of no more "man talk (slap)" or "fetch my shoes" scenes?

    Welcome to 2012.

    I've arrived here by following a link provided by another member and I'm truly astounded by such ignorance and lack of respect for Ian Fleming on here. Thank you for that response. You've obviously never read a page of Fleming in your life; that's obvious. You make Ian Fleming sound like a terrible misogynist when in reality he often treated his female characters with tact, respect and dignity. Don't let the writing of Richard Maibaum obscure the facts.

    I disagree. Ive read Fleming many times over and he oretty much makes Bond a misogynist as well a a romantic despite that Fleming was also a hopeless romantic and idolised some women in real life.

    From Casino Royale:

    "... And then there was this pest of a girl. He sighed. Women were for recreation. On a job, they got in the way and fogged things up with sex and hurt feelings and all the emotional baggage they carried around with them. One had to look out for them and take care of them".

    The books are littered with Bond's thoughts on women and marriage, all in the same vein.

    And don't even get started on race, have you read Live & Let Die? Or sexuality, Goldfinger and Thunderball? Women drivers, also in Thunderball?

    Without labouring the point, they were written at a time when these views were widely held and, thank God, times have changed. It wouldn't be relevant any more to keep these aspects in the films. Unless you set every film in the 50s and make it a period drama like Mad Men. I for one would hate that, I want to see a modern, relevant Bond.
    "How was your lamb?" "Skewered. One sympathises."
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Agreed. -{ Even the 60's film Bond was different from the 50's Bond of the books. And the 90's Bond had changed from the 70's. Bond has to.be current
    to the times,but the core of the character always remains.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • BlackleiterBlackleiter Washington, DCPosts: 5,615MI6 Agent
    minigeff wrote:

    Ok, hold on a minute and you might wanna sit down.

    Ian Fleming is dead.

    In fact, he's been pushing up daisys for quite some time now. I know this is gonna be a right kick in the balls, so I'm sorry, but after his death, quite a few people have been writing bond books and films, and they've brought the character and the whole franchise into the 21st century.

    I suppose you'll be tearful with the thought of no more "man talk (slap)" or "fetch my shoes" scenes?

    Welcome to 2012.

    I've arrived here by following a link provided by another member and I'm truly astounded by such ignorance and lack of respect for Ian Fleming on here. Thank you for that response. You've obviously never read a page of Fleming in your life; that's obvious. You make Ian Fleming sound like a terrible misogynist when in reality he often treated his female characters with tact, respect and dignity. Don't let the writing of Richard Maibaum obscure the facts.

    I disagree. Ive read Fleming many times over and he oretty much makes Bond a misogynist as well a a romantic despite that Fleming was also a hopeless romantic and idolised some women in real life.

    From Casino Royale:

    "... And then there was this pest of a girl. He sighed. Women were for recreation. On a job, they got in the way and fogged things up with sex and hurt feelings and all the emotional baggage they carried around with them. One had to look out for them and take care of them".

    The books are littered with Bond's thoughts on women and marriage, all in the same vein.

    And don't even get started on race, have you read Live & Let Die? Or sexuality, Goldfinger and Thunderball? Women drivers, also in Thunderball?

    Without labouring the point, they were written at a time when these views were widely held and, thank God, times have changed. It wouldn't be relevant any more to keep these aspects in the films. Unless you set every film in the 50s and make it a period drama like Mad Men. I for one would hate that, I want to see a modern, relevant Bond.

    Well-said, my friend! -{
    "Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    There has been a recent film character who keps up all the "Maleness" from
    the 60's. He's called Austin Powers. :))
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • DEFIANT 74205DEFIANT 74205 Perth, AustraliaPosts: 1,881MI6 Agent
    minigeff wrote:

    Ok, hold on a minute and you might wanna sit down.

    Ian Fleming is dead.

    In fact, he's been pushing up daisys for quite some time now. I know this is gonna be a right kick in the balls, so I'm sorry, but after his death, quite a few people have been writing bond books and films, and they've brought the character and the whole franchise into the 21st century.

    I suppose you'll be tearful with the thought of no more "man talk (slap)" or "fetch my shoes" scenes?

    Welcome to 2012.

    I've arrived here by following a link provided by another member and I'm truly astounded by such ignorance and lack of respect for Ian Fleming on here. Thank you for that response. You've obviously never read a page of Fleming in your life; that's obvious. You make Ian Fleming sound like a terrible misogynist when in reality he often treated his female characters with tact, respect and dignity. Don't let the writing of Richard Maibaum obscure the facts.

    I disagree. Ive read Fleming many times over and he oretty much makes Bond a misogynist as well a a romantic despite that Fleming was also a hopeless romantic and idolised some women in real life.

    From Casino Royale:

    "... And then there was this pest of a girl. He sighed. Women were for recreation. On a job, they got in the way and fogged things up with sex and hurt feelings and all the emotional baggage they carried around with them. One had to look out for them and take care of them".

    The books are littered with Bond's thoughts on women and marriage, all in the same vein.

    And don't even get started on race, have you read Live & Let Die? Or sexuality, Goldfinger and Thunderball? Women drivers, also in Thunderball?

    Without labouring the point, they were written at a time when these views were widely held and, thank God, times have changed. It wouldn't be relevant any more to keep these aspects in the films. Unless you set every film in the 50s and make it a period drama like Mad Men. I for one would hate that, I want to see a modern, relevant Bond.

    You have a fair point. Fleming's Bond is very much a misogynist. But what, exactly, is wrong with that, aside from being socially unacceptable these days? You're quite right in that the literary Bond had his misogynistic and racist thoughts exposed in the novels, but unless I'm very much mistaken, he rarely expresses them, which means that in the translation to cinema, he would keep his misogynistic and racist views to himself.

    I want to see the films modernised - in that the producers create new stories, filmed in an environment surrounded by new technology. But I also think that the character - and all the main supporting characters who were created by Fleming - should not be materially different from that which was depicted in the novels, in appearance, behaviour and mannerisms.
    "Watch the birdie, you bastard!"
  • minigeffminigeff EnglandPosts: 7,884MI6 Agent
    minigeff wrote:

    That's not the way the character was written by Fleming. Hell, M isn't even supposed to be a woman! At least if the producers are going down that route in the name of political correctness, then at least make her every bit Bond's boss as Bernard Lee was, as opposed to an overbearing mother.

    Ok, hold on a minute and you might wanna sit down.

    Ian Fleming is dead.

    In fact, he's been pushing up daisys for quite some time now. I know this is gonna be a right kick in the balls, so I'm sorry, but after his death, quite a few people have been writing bond books and films, and they've brought the character and the whole franchise into the 21st century.

    I suppose you'll be tearful with the thought of no more "man talk (slap)" or "fetch my shoes" scenes?

    Welcome to 2012.

    I've arrived here by following a link provided by another member and I'm truly astounded by such ignorance and lack of respect for Ian Fleming on here. Thank you for that response. You've obviously never read a page of Fleming in your life; that's obvious. You make Ian Fleming sound like a terrible misogynist when in reality he often treated his female characters with tact, respect and dignity. Don't let the writing of Richard Maibaum obscure the facts.

    i actually leaked a bit of piss out laughing at this. :))

    i missed all this controversy going on, shame really. I think i'm equally astounded that this point of 'current bond should be more like fleming bond' keeps getting brought up like some proverbial furball of bond discussion. it's as bad as the racist baiting 'will there ever be a black bond?' conversations.

    true, i've not read a single fleming book. ever. wanna know why?

    a) no time
    b) i live in bond film universe, the books would just confuse me
    c) no colouring in section
    d) i found the books to be too detailed. I don't wanna read 3 pages of what cloth bond's kecks were cut from.

    it's not down to 'disrespecting' anyone, it's just my choice. i'm not saying fleming is a knob, or that his work was crap, i mean c'mon, i'm a BOND fan, how would that compute?

    as many people, myself included, have pointed out, the arse slapping days of bond are gone. get with the program, move with the times. the new films and latest stories (imo anyway) are great, they work and make brilliant films. you can't get away with all that 60's mindset stuff.

    anyway, gotta go, the wife needs her arse tanning and i've got to get Winston McChombington to bring the car round, the dishwasher broke down this morning so i've got to take her to the shrink before playing bridge at the local gentleman's club - the gollywog arms.
    'Force feeding AJB humour and banter since 2009'
    Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk
    www.cancerresearchuk.org
  • Ens007Ens007 EnglandPosts: 863MI6 Agent
    minigeff wrote:
    i actually leaked a bit of piss out laughing at this. :))

    i missed all this controversy going on, shame really. I think i'm equally astounded that this point of 'current bond should be more like fleming bond' keeps getting brought up like some proverbial furball of bond discussion. it's as bad as the racist baiting 'will there ever be a black bond?' conversations.

    true, i've not read a single fleming book. ever. wanna know why?

    a) no time
    b) i live in bond film universe, the books would just confuse me
    c) no colouring in section
    d) i found the books to be too detailed. I don't wanna read 3 pages of what cloth bond's kecks were cut from.

    it's not down to 'disrespecting' anyone, it's just my choice. i'm not saying fleming is a knob, or that his work was crap, i mean c'mon, i'm a BOND fan, how would that compute?

    as many people, myself included, have pointed out, the arse slapping days of bond are gone. get with the program, move with the times. the new films and latest stories (imo anyway) are great, they work and make brilliant films. you can't get away with all that 60's mindset stuff.

    anyway, gotta go, the wife needs her arse tanning and i've got to get Winston McChombington to bring the car round, the dishwasher broke down this morning so i've got to take her to the shrink before playing bridge at the local gentleman's club - the gollywog arms.

    Brilliant! -{ :))
  • BlackleiterBlackleiter Washington, DCPosts: 5,615MI6 Agent

    I've arrived here by following a link provided by another member and I'm truly astounded by such ignorance and lack of respect for Ian Fleming on here. Thank you for that response. You've obviously never read a page of Fleming in your life; that's obvious. You make Ian Fleming sound like a terrible misogynist when in reality he often treated his female characters with tact, respect and dignity. Don't let the writing of Richard Maibaum obscure the facts.

    I disagree. Ive read Fleming many times over and he oretty much makes Bond a misogynist as well a a romantic despite that Fleming was also a hopeless romantic and idolised some women in real life.

    From Casino Royale:

    "... And then there was this pest of a girl. He sighed. Women were for recreation. On a job, they got in the way and fogged things up with sex and hurt feelings and all the emotional baggage they carried around with them. One had to look out for them and take care of them".

    The books are littered with Bond's thoughts on women and marriage, all in the same vein.

    And don't even get started on race, have you read Live & Let Die? Or sexuality, Goldfinger and Thunderball? Women drivers, also in Thunderball?

    Without labouring the point, they were written at a time when these views were widely held and, thank God, times have changed. It wouldn't be relevant any more to keep these aspects in the films. Unless you set every film in the 50s and make it a period drama like Mad Men. I for one would hate that, I want to see a modern, relevant Bond.

    You have a fair point. Fleming's Bond is very much a misogynist. But what, exactly, is wrong with that, aside from being socially unacceptable these days? You're quite right in that the literary Bond had his misogynistic and racist thoughts exposed in the novels, but unless I'm very much mistaken, he rarely expresses them, which means that in the translation to cinema, he would keep his misogynistic and racist views to himself.

    I want to see the films modernised - in that the producers create new stories, filmed in an environment surrounded by new technology. But I also think that the character - and all the main supporting characters who were created by Fleming - should not be materially different from that which was depicted in the novels, in appearance, behaviour and mannerisms.

    In this day and age, being a misogynist and a racist is more than just "socially unacceptable", IMO. It would be downright stupid. Granted, back in the days of Bond's origin there was still a lot of misinformation and misguided viewpoints stemming from a number of factors, including more limited interaction among various races and cultures, governments that actually promoted and supported discrimination and segregation, the widespread notion that women couldn't handle certain jobs "reserved" for men, etc. But if the Bond films are going to take place in the present day, wouldn't Bond have to be a bit of a moron to still cling to those outdated and widely discredited viewpoints? I'm not saying there aren't individuals who still harbor those views even today, but those people tend to be morons. Bond is many things, but he's not stupid.
    "Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
  • Colonel PinstripeColonel Pinstripe UKPosts: 52MI6 Agent
    edited June 2013
    minigeff wrote:
    minigeff wrote:

    Ok, hold on a minute and you might wanna sit down.

    Ian Fleming is dead.

    In fact, he's been pushing up daisys for quite some time now. I know this is gonna be a right kick in the balls, so I'm sorry, but after his death, quite a few people have been writing bond books and films, and they've brought the character and the whole franchise into the 21st century.

    I suppose you'll be tearful with the thought of no more "man talk (slap)" or "fetch my shoes" scenes?

    Welcome to 2012.

    I've arrived here by following a link provided by another member and I'm truly astounded by such ignorance and lack of respect for Ian Fleming on here. Thank you for that response. You've obviously never read a page of Fleming in your life; that's obvious. You make Ian Fleming sound like a terrible misogynist when in reality he often treated his female characters with tact, respect and dignity. Don't let the writing of Richard Maibaum obscure the facts.

    i actually leaked a bit of piss out laughing at this. :))

    i missed all this controversy going on, shame really. I think i'm equally astounded that this point of 'current bond should be more like fleming bond' keeps getting brought up like some proverbial furball of bond discussion. it's as bad as the racist baiting 'will there ever be a black bond?' conversations.

    true, i've not read a single fleming book. ever. wanna know why?

    a) no time
    b) i live in bond film universe, the books would just confuse me
    c) no colouring in section
    d) i found the books to be too detailed. I don't wanna read 3 pages of what cloth bond's kecks were cut from.

    it's not down to 'disrespecting' anyone, it's just my choice. i'm not saying fleming is a knob, or that his work was crap, i mean c'mon, i'm a BOND fan, how would that compute?

    as many people, myself included, have pointed out, the arse slapping days of bond are gone. get with the program, move with the times. the new films and latest stories (imo anyway) are great, they work and make brilliant films. you can't get away with all that 60's mindset stuff.

    anyway, gotta go, the wife needs her arse tanning and i've got to get Winston McChombington to bring the car round, the dishwasher broke down this morning so i've got to take her to the shrink before playing bridge at the local gentleman's club - the gollywog arms.

    Yes, but you can still move with the times and be faithful to Fleming, such as the Dalton era did and the current Craig era is doing. I think you misunderstand my point here. Of course Bond had to change with the times and be modernised in order to survive, but I was pointing out that fidelity to Fleming is not the death knell to the Eon Bond film series many had long predeicted it would be. Look at Skyfall for heaven's sake! It took much from Fleming's latter Bond novels YOLT and TMWTGG. Don't try to better yourself or read about the character's origins in Fleming. You'll surely soon learn that Fleming's Bond is not as black and white as you paint him here. Dink and the "man talk" arse-slap did not come from Fleming (the same with the "fetch my shoes" line from Dr. No that you reference) - that character doesn't even appear in the Goldfinger novel. Chalk that doubt to the scriptwriters Richard Maibaum and Paul Dehn.

    I find it astounding (though not very surprising) that you have not read a page of Fleming even out of curiosity. You might learn actually something. Heaven forbid that would happen.
  • minigeffminigeff EnglandPosts: 7,884MI6 Agent
    minigeff wrote:

    I've arrived here by following a link provided by another member and I'm truly astounded by such ignorance and lack of respect for Ian Fleming on here. Thank you for that response. You've obviously never read a page of Fleming in your life; that's obvious. You make Ian Fleming sound like a terrible misogynist when in reality he often treated his female characters with tact, respect and dignity. Don't let the writing of Richard Maibaum obscure the facts.

    i actually leaked a bit of piss out laughing at this. :))

    i missed all this controversy going on, shame really. I think i'm equally astounded that this point of 'current bond should be more like fleming bond' keeps getting brought up like some proverbial furball of bond discussion. it's as bad as the racist baiting 'will there ever be a black bond?' conversations.

    true, i've not read a single fleming book. ever. wanna know why?

    a) no time
    b) i live in bond film universe, the books would just confuse me
    c) no colouring in section
    d) i found the books to be too detailed. I don't wanna read 3 pages of what cloth bond's kecks were cut from.

    it's not down to 'disrespecting' anyone, it's just my choice. i'm not saying fleming is a knob, or that his work was crap, i mean c'mon, i'm a BOND fan, how would that compute?

    as many people, myself included, have pointed out, the arse slapping days of bond are gone. get with the program, move with the times. the new films and latest stories (imo anyway) are great, they work and make brilliant films. you can't get away with all that 60's mindset stuff.

    anyway, gotta go, the wife needs her arse tanning and i've got to get Winston McChombington to bring the car round, the dishwasher broke down this morning so i've got to take her to the shrink before playing bridge at the local gentleman's club - the gollywog arms.

    Yes, but you can still move with the times and be faithful to Fleming, such as the Dalton era did and the current Craig era is doing. I think you misunderstand my point here. Of course Bond had to change with the times and be modernised in order to survive, but I was pointing out that fidelity to Fleming is not the death knell to the Eon Bond film series many had long predeicted it would be. Look at Skyfall for heaven's sake! It took much from Fleming's latter Bond novels YOLT and TMWTGG. Don't try to better yourself or read about the character's origins in Fleming. You'll surely soon learn that Fleming's Bond is not as black and white as you paint him here. Dink and the "man talk" arse-slap did not come from Fleming (the same with the "fetch my shoes" line from Dr. No that you reference) - that character doesn't even appear in the Goldfinger novel. Chalk that doubt to the scriptwriters Richard Maibaum and Paul Dehn.

    I find it astounding (though not very surprising) that you have not tread a page of Fleming even out of curiosity. You might learn actually something. Heaven forbid that would happen.

    Do any of the original Fleming books come with a set of crayons or at least have some piccys inside? All them big words gimme a headache.
    'Force feeding AJB humour and banter since 2009'
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  • Colonel PinstripeColonel Pinstripe UKPosts: 52MI6 Agent
    edited June 2013
    Your reply is predictably flippant. I guess that this is because you know when you are beaten by a superior argument. Then it seems you resort to humour instead. I have learned this and won't make the mistake of engaging you in conversation again.
  • Charmed & DangerousCharmed & Dangerous Posts: 7,358MI6 Agent
    You know, I'm sure you didnt mean it, but that last reply makes you sound like a Bond villain. :#

    Seriously though, we all realise that EON needs to remain true to the Bond character, but even in the novels his character changes and develops. The Bond of Casino Royale is not the same Bond of YOLT.

    So doesn't it stand to reason his character should progress and develop in the films too?
    "How was your lamb?" "Skewered. One sympathises."
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