Was Mathis a Traitor?

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Comments

  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    Welcome to AJB, Mitchnel88.
    Good post, and thanks for contributing a well-thought out series of points. Can I add a few points?

    (1) Vesper's lover is called Yusef, not Yasef.
    (2) Le Chiffre picked his name "since I am only a number on a passport" and "the figure" is only one of several possible representations in English.
    (3) His weeping eye "comes merely from a derangement of the tear duct".
    (4) He is unquestionably the money man.
    (5) The money concerned is not in the form of bonds.

    I agree that CR is the stronger of the two movies, though I credit that to Fleming and not Haggis.
  • screenamescreename Posts: 388MI6 Agent
    I think that what many haven't considered is that nobody told Le Chiffre that Bond knew his tell. I think that Le Chiffre beat Bond fair and square. He is a master poker player after all. Bond only lost because he wasn't good enough. Mathis was completely innocent and the Le Chiffre only said that line because he had already used the façade of Mathis to lure out Vesper and kidnap her. They kidnapped her because they knew Bond would follow. They put her on the street because Le Chiffre knew bond would crash the car. Le Chiffre knew about the tracker because he probably encountered it before and was just checking to see if he had on in him. There probably would have been a mark or something from where it was injected. Mr. White killed Le Chiffre once Quantum knew he would sell out to either Mi6 or the CIA. They were only tracking him to see if he would.

    Now, how did Le Chiffre know that Bond would chase Vesper, crash his car, and get himself caught. Because he's a excellent poker player. As Bond says "You never play your hand, you the man across from you." Le Chiffre was playing Bond ever since he set foot in the casino. From misleading Bond with the line "...Mr. Beech, or is it Bond. I'm a bit confused." He let Bond think that he was playing Le Chiffre, while Le Chiffre was actually playing him. What Le Chiffre didn't know was that Bond would never give up the password.

    This, I think, clears Mathis. I think that it was assumed Mathis worked for French intelligence. When Mathis asks "So do we forgive each other?" in Quantum, Mathis is feeling remorse that their only prior meeting had to go the way it did. Mathis feels partly responsible for Vesper's death. Throughout the film you can see that Mathis is rather fond, maybe even protective, of Vesper. After all she's only an accountant who got thrown in to the spy game with veterans like Mathis and Bond. Mathis asks forgiveness for not protecting Vesper and Bond in Montenegro, and Bond needs forgiveness for putting Mathis through torture. But yet, Mathis forgave Bon a long time ago. Mathis knows that that's how the game is played. In the scene where Mathis gets taken away my Mi6, you see this sudden realization where he puts together all the pieces and understands why Bond thinks him a traitor. And yet he would have done the same thing if he and Bonds roles were reversed.
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,239MI6 Agent
    Er. Bond told him. He actually said something like, well, at least my eye doesn't bleed when blah blah blah.

    That we don't know if Mathis is a traitor or not is simply down to bad writing and rewrites where the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, including the director. Let's not forget, a few week before Craig was announced Haggis was quoted as saying that in this Bond would be 27 and a beginner... Role on 38 year old Craig.
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    Mathis never was a traitor. Vesper was. Bond believes Mathis betrayed him because (a) Le Chiffre said so and (b) he's fallen for Vesper. He's wrong, and doesn't realise this for some time.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    In QOS when Bond visits Mathis his girlfriend even says that Mathis was
    Found innocent, hence the secret service buying him a villa.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • screenamescreename Posts: 388MI6 Agent
    Er. Bond told him. He actually said something like, well, at least my eye doesn't bleed when blah blah blah.

    That we don't know if Mathis is a traitor or not is simply down to bad writing and rewrites where the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, including the director. Let's not forget, a few week before Craig was announced Haggis was quoted as saying that in this Bond would be 27 and a beginner... Role on 38 year old Craig.

    Le Chiffre's tell wasn't his bleeding eye (as far as we know) but "the twitch he has to hide when he bluffs."
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