How famous is the SOE and the agents in other countries? Here several biographies and movies were made already in the 1940-50's, so some of them are very well known. Can an average adult name 3-4 SOE agents or more in other countries?
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,485MI6 Agent
Most people here have never heard of SOE to be honest. Several documentaries and programmes have been made, and like you, we made some films in the 50's, but if you asked most folks they would not know about SOE and I doubt many people could tell you the names of the famous agents. How sad is that. And this is the UK. I think Violette Szabo is probably the most famous due to her bust adorning the statue to SOE on South Bank between MI6 and MI5, and because of the horrific way in which she was murdered.
Of course most of SOE's activities were still classified here until a couple of years ago, and loads still until 2024.
You're right Asp, I don't think many have heard of SOE (or MI9). Szabo may have some recognition as might Odette Hallowes and possibly Peter Churchill but more amongst people with an interest in the subject or history rather than the general public. The stories of incredible heroism, spirit and ingenuity are breathtaking by any standards and it is a shame that these people are not better known.
You're right Asp, I don't think many have heard of SOE (or MI9). Szabo may have some recognition as might Odette Hallowes and possibly Peter Churchill but more amongst people with an interest in the subject or history rather than the general public. The stories of incredible heroism, spirit and ingenuity are breathtaking by any standards and it is a shame that these people are not better known.
I think part of the reason SOE are so famous in Norway is because we ha a great need for heroes and heroism after the war. We were occupied without putting up too much of a fight, since we were fairly unprepared for war. Later in the war life continued not too different from usual for many, and the tales from the SOE helped people believe we were all resistance heroes
It's funny that you say that Number24, because I do think of Norway having done their fair share in World War Two. I know the country was overrun quickly, but then any country of that size - and almost any bigger than Norway - would have suffered a similar fate. Norway's resistance was very impressive and certainly overshadows a certain Norwegian political leader whose name is now in the English dictionary with a less-flattering definition!
Norway's military was largely unprepared for the German attack in 1940, and compared to Finland's response to the Soviet attack the year before made many Norwegians embarassed. I believe it took more time to occupy Norway than any of the other countries that were completely overrun by the Germans, but this was more due to geography than fighting. The communist resistance started fighing back after the Soviet Union was attacked a year later, and they were very active. The government-backed resistance didn't actively fight the Germans until very late in the war, with a few exceptions. That being said, the merchant navy played a very important role in WWII. I belive our merchant fleet was among the largest in the world at the time, perhaps the largest. The seamen made huge sacrifices and didn't get enough praise for this. The resistance played its most important role on the inteligence side, especially in the area of shipping. This doesn't look very glamorous to the general population. The UK and US had other heroes that took part in spectacular missions, such as the Battle of Britain, the commandoes etc. On the action-heavy side of WWII we didn't have much more than the SOE.
Here in the UK, we had the Home Guard in case Germany did somehow manage to invade and occupy Britain. My Grandad (Mums Side) was a Member of the HG.
1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,485MI6 Agent
Here's a few more...
As I said in my first post, the SOE Jack Knife/Dagger is an exceptionally rare item now, despite every SOE agent being issued with them. The problem is that they were so useful and got used. As such it's rare to find them at all now, but when you do, they are very damaged. This one for example was issued and used well after the war by its owner, and probably by the owners son or grandson too. They are so sought after that even this piece becomes valuable...
This is how it would have looked...
Another this the SOE used were these field self-soldering rods. The two wires being soldered together were placed into either end of the tube and the phosphorous part struck. With some wiggling and kneading, the two wires would be solidly fixed together. These examples are pristine after a sealed ammunition can was opened a few years ago which showed the contents as being untouched by time.
Communication security was always an issue, so SOE had many items used as dead letter drops. This example is a classic. An iron bolt that can be placed into a wooden post, or fixed into supports and walls. Looks pretty innocuous, but the head can be unscrewed and messages placed inside. There must be loads of these WW2 relics still scattered throughout Europe, slowly rusting away, and everyone walking past them would be none the wiser as to their importance 70 odd years ago.
Of course, there were many Norwegians who served in the British military (and other forces, I would imagine) during the war. Two of the most famous were Per Bergsland and Jens Muller, RAF Spitfire pilots who were shot down and eventually sent to Stalag-Luft III POW camp. They not only participated in "The Great Escape" but were two of the three of escapers who managed to make a 'home-run' back to Allied countries.
There were also many people trained, in case of invasion to be the English resistance.
With weapons and explosives hidden around the country. I don't know much about it,
I'm sure others will know much more.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Before he died, my Grandad told me that one Tactic into fooling the Germans would be to bury normal Plates in the Ground, with the Tops showing so that any Patrols would think they were Land mines.
1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,485MI6 Agent
This is true. They utilised itching powder too. They'd gain access to the laundry and go rampant with it on the woolen underwear and outerwear. In one town during Winter, it virtually immobilised their army )
Now pay attention to my post up above. It has piccies
Before he died, my Grandad told me that one Tactic into fooling the Germans would be to bury normal Plates in the Ground, with the Tops showing so that any Patrols would think they were Land mines.
Never heard that before. Simple but ingenious. Imagine how much that slows down a military?
This is true. They utilised itching powder too. They'd gain access to the laundry and go rampant with it on the woolen underwear and outerwear. In one town during Winter, it virtually immobilised their army )
Another new one for me. Sometimes the simple things are the best. I heard that Napoleon employed Whoopee cushions during the Russian Campaign.
I think the SOE gadgets shown in this thread are very interesting. Keep on posting! Personally I can't remember many of them being mentioned in what I have read about operation in Norway. The Welrod is dispayed in a museum documenting a guerilla base outside Bergen, but that's all. Suppressed Stenguns and limpet mines for ship sabotage were used, but there is no mention of the more exotic gadgets. Perhaps they were still secret after the war, and later they were't mentioned because the agents didn't want to be assosiated with the James Bond filmsand their portrial of a secrt agent
As I read the Fleming novels in my youth and began researching the SOE, I also came to conclude that he used it as a basis for his fictional Secret Service.
He came up with the idea of a character like Bond based on the commandos, Royal Navy frogmen and SOE agents he came in contact with. This type of agent would fit in perfectly within the type of fictional SOE/Secret Service agency he invented in the novels. It was more the size of the real SOE than MI6 and had "stations" in different countries just as the SOE did. Instead of a Directorate of War Planning he invented the 00 Section and whereas the DWP would have had substantial personnel he inhabited his section with only a few special operatives.
It was a clever re-working and downsizing of the real MI6.
As I read the Fleming novels in my youth and began researching the SOE, I also came to conclude that he used it as a basis for his fictional Secret Service.
He came up with the idea of a character like Bond based on the commandos, Royal Navy frogmen and SOE agents he came in contact with. This type of agent would fit in perfectly within the type of fictional SOE/Secret Service agency he invented in the novels. It was more the size of the real SOE than MI6 and had "stations" in different countries just as the SOE did. Instead of a Directorate of War Planning he invented the 00 Section and whereas the DWP would have had substantial personnel he inhabited his section with only a few special operatives.
It was a clever re-working and downsizing of the real MI6.
I'm not doubting what you say, but I believe that Fleming combined this with the way his work in the Kemsley newspaper group was organised. Some of their operatives ended up in his novels (I'm thinking of YOLT here).
As I read the Fleming novels in my youth and began researching the SOE, I also came to conclude that he used it as a basis for his fictional Secret Service.
He came up with the idea of a character like Bond based on the commandos, Royal Navy frogmen and SOE agents he came in contact with. This type of agent would fit in perfectly within the type of fictional SOE/Secret Service agency he invented in the novels. It was more the size of the real SOE than MI6 and had "stations" in different countries just as the SOE did. Instead of a Directorate of War Planning he invented the 00 Section and whereas the DWP would have had substantial personnel he inhabited his section with only a few special operatives.
It was a clever re-working and downsizing of the real MI6.
I'm not familiar with the Dirctorat of War Planning. What was it and do you have a link?
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,485MI6 Agent
The history and set up of the Auxilliary Units is fascinating. They do have one strong link with SOE and that was Colin Gubbins. There's a great private museum that opened a few years back jammed full with old AU equipment.
There is a very well hidden bunker with tunnels on private property by me. No one goes there as it's deep in woodland on private land and I only found it by accident as I had permission to survey for adders there back in 2010. There isn't any equipment there, but there are used rat packs dated 1941 scattered about. Unfortunately two of the main spaces have collapsed. It's a large bat roost now so I don't go in there too often, but I've always wanted to run a metal detector around the area to see what turns up.
1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,485MI6 Agent
A few hundred metres of tunnels network that part as far as I can make out, but many have been cut off by cave-ins, especially the larger 'room' areas.
As I read the Fleming novels in my youth and began researching the SOE, I also came to conclude that he used it as a basis for his fictional Secret Service.
He came up with the idea of a character like Bond based on the commandos, Royal Navy frogmen and SOE agents he came in contact with. This type of agent would fit in perfectly within the type of fictional SOE/Secret Service agency he invented in the novels. It was more the size of the real SOE than MI6 and had "stations" in different countries just as the SOE did. Instead of a Directorate of War Planning he invented the 00 Section and whereas the DWP would have had substantial personnel he inhabited his section with only a few special operatives.
It was a clever re-working and downsizing of the real MI6.
I'm not familiar with the Dirctorat of War Planning. What was it and do you have a link?
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,485MI6 Agent
Here's a little gem and a favourite in my collection. MKII British Sten gun with SOE grip. SOE used this hand grip as the gun could be more easily concealed. This can be taken off quickly and the barrel unscrewed, leaving three parts, well, four including the mag. Broken down the mag was the longest part and a broken down Sten could easily be concealed in pockets or even a hand bag. Not only did SOE use these, but also Flemings 30 AU and various Commando Units. Fleming himself fired many a Sten on the range.
We dropped the standard T-Stock and Skeleton Stock versions to Resistance groups throughout the world, and from the MK II onwards they were in fact excellent and accurate weapons. The stories about them jamming were mainly due to incorrect handling as untrained shooters would use the magazine as a handle instead of the barrel grip. Stens were famously manufactured in many toy factories throughout Britain, the parts were also farmed out to hundreds of factories for production, so bombed factories wouldn't damage rate of production that was desperately needed during those years.
Comments
Of course most of SOE's activities were still classified here until a couple of years ago, and loads still until 2024.
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30036238
Regards,
Tecolote
I think part of the reason SOE are so famous in Norway is because we ha a great need for heroes and heroism after the war. We were occupied without putting up too much of a fight, since we were fairly unprepared for war. Later in the war life continued not too different from usual for many, and the tales from the SOE helped people believe we were all resistance heroes
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/quisling
As I said in my first post, the SOE Jack Knife/Dagger is an exceptionally rare item now, despite every SOE agent being issued with them. The problem is that they were so useful and got used. As such it's rare to find them at all now, but when you do, they are very damaged. This one for example was issued and used well after the war by its owner, and probably by the owners son or grandson too. They are so sought after that even this piece becomes valuable...
This is how it would have looked...
Another this the SOE used were these field self-soldering rods. The two wires being soldered together were placed into either end of the tube and the phosphorous part struck. With some wiggling and kneading, the two wires would be solidly fixed together. These examples are pristine after a sealed ammunition can was opened a few years ago which showed the contents as being untouched by time.
Communication security was always an issue, so SOE had many items used as dead letter drops. This example is a classic. An iron bolt that can be placed into a wooden post, or fixed into supports and walls. Looks pretty innocuous, but the head can be unscrewed and messages placed inside. There must be loads of these WW2 relics still scattered throughout Europe, slowly rusting away, and everyone walking past them would be none the wiser as to their importance 70 odd years ago.
With weapons and explosives hidden around the country. I don't know much about it,
I'm sure others will know much more.
Now pay attention to my post up above. It has piccies
Never heard that before. Simple but ingenious. Imagine how much that slows down a military?
Another new one for me. Sometimes the simple things are the best. I heard that Napoleon employed Whoopee cushions during the Russian Campaign.
He came up with the idea of a character like Bond based on the commandos, Royal Navy frogmen and SOE agents he came in contact with. This type of agent would fit in perfectly within the type of fictional SOE/Secret Service agency he invented in the novels. It was more the size of the real SOE than MI6 and had "stations" in different countries just as the SOE did. Instead of a Directorate of War Planning he invented the 00 Section and whereas the DWP would have had substantial personnel he inhabited his section with only a few special operatives.
It was a clever re-working and downsizing of the real MI6.
I'm not doubting what you say, but I believe that Fleming combined this with the way his work in the Kemsley newspaper group was organised. Some of their operatives ended up in his novels (I'm thinking of YOLT here).
I'm not familiar with the Dirctorat of War Planning. What was it and do you have a link?
There is a very well hidden bunker with tunnels on private property by me. No one goes there as it's deep in woodland on private land and I only found it by accident as I had permission to survey for adders there back in 2010. There isn't any equipment there, but there are used rat packs dated 1941 scattered about. Unfortunately two of the main spaces have collapsed. It's a large bat roost now so I don't go in there too often, but I've always wanted to run a metal detector around the area to see what turns up.
Cool pics ASP -{
Here is the link:
http://www.eliteukforces.info/mi6/
We dropped the standard T-Stock and Skeleton Stock versions to Resistance groups throughout the world, and from the MK II onwards they were in fact excellent and accurate weapons. The stories about them jamming were mainly due to incorrect handling as untrained shooters would use the magazine as a handle instead of the barrel grip. Stens were famously manufactured in many toy factories throughout Britain, the parts were also farmed out to hundreds of factories for production, so bombed factories wouldn't damage rate of production that was desperately needed during those years.