As I read the Fleming novels in my youth and began researching the SOE, I also came to conclude that he used it as a basis for his fictional Secret Service.
He came up with the idea of a character like Bond based on the commandos, Royal Navy frogmen and SOE agents he came in contact with. This type of agent would fit in perfectly within the type of fictional SOE/Secret Service agency he invented in the novels. It was more the size of the real SOE than MI6 and had "stations" in different countries just as the SOE did. Instead of a Directorate of War Planning he invented the 00 Section and whereas the DWP would have had substantial personnel he inhabited his section with only a few special operatives.
It was a clever re-working and downsizing of the real MI6.
I'm not doubting what you say, but I believe that Fleming combined this with the way his work in the Kemsley newspaper group was organised. Some of their operatives ended up in his novels (I'm thinking of YOLT here).
As I read the Fleming novels in my youth and began researching the SOE, I also came to conclude that he used it as a basis for his fictional Secret Service.
He came up with the idea of a character like Bond based on the commandos, Royal Navy frogmen and SOE agents he came in contact with. This type of agent would fit in perfectly within the type of fictional SOE/Secret Service agency he invented in the novels. It was more the size of the real SOE than MI6 and had "stations" in different countries just as the SOE did. Instead of a Directorate of War Planning he invented the 00 Section and whereas the DWP would have had substantial personnel he inhabited his section with only a few special operatives.
It was a clever re-working and downsizing of the real MI6.
I'm not familiar with the Dirctorat of War Planning. What was it and do you have a link?
There were also many people trained, in case of invasion to be the English resistance.
With weapons and explosives hidden around the country. I don't know much about it,
I'm sure others will know much more.
These were known as the Auxiliaries & were part of the Home Guard. They were made up of volunteers who would act as stay behind saboteurs/assassins in the event of invasion. They were highly trained & the whole project was above top secret. Some of their bunkers still exist. Indeed one was unearthed some years ago & it still contained (in perfect condition) all the firearms & explosives to be used by the Auxiliary unit who would have fought from it.
They had no connection to SOE.
I've just gone away & had a look on the net & found this great link:
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,483MI6 Agent
The history and set up of the Auxilliary Units is fascinating. They do have one strong link with SOE and that was Colin Gubbins. There's a great private museum that opened a few years back jammed full with old AU equipment.
There is a very well hidden bunker with tunnels on private property by me. No one goes there as it's deep in woodland on private land and I only found it by accident as I had permission to survey for adders there back in 2010. There isn't any equipment there, but there are used rat packs dated 1941 scattered about. Unfortunately two of the main spaces have collapsed. It's a large bat roost now so I don't go in there too often, but I've always wanted to run a metal detector around the area to see what turns up.
1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,483MI6 Agent
A few hundred metres of tunnels network that part as far as I can make out, but many have been cut off by cave-ins, especially the larger 'room' areas.
Great photos! Get the metal detector out ASAP! Re Gubbins you are correct. If anything the Auxiliaries were even more a closely guarded secret than SOE. I have a great book on the subject.
For those who don't know the bunkers were self contained bases from which the Auxiliaries would fight. They were underground & built so as to be completely invisible. The average life expectancy of each cell being just two weeks. The task of each unit was sabotage & assassination of both Germans & collaborators. Indeed many cells were issued with a 'hit list' of locals they would have to kill if the enemy came into their area. Being part of the Home Guard didn't mean these men were 'Dads Army' in 1940 they had their pick of the very best weapons & were trained to a far higher standard than any regular troops.
As I read the Fleming novels in my youth and began researching the SOE, I also came to conclude that he used it as a basis for his fictional Secret Service.
He came up with the idea of a character like Bond based on the commandos, Royal Navy frogmen and SOE agents he came in contact with. This type of agent would fit in perfectly within the type of fictional SOE/Secret Service agency he invented in the novels. It was more the size of the real SOE than MI6 and had "stations" in different countries just as the SOE did. Instead of a Directorate of War Planning he invented the 00 Section and whereas the DWP would have had substantial personnel he inhabited his section with only a few special operatives.
It was a clever re-working and downsizing of the real MI6.
I'm not familiar with the Dirctorat of War Planning. What was it and do you have a link?
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,483MI6 Agent
Here's a little gem and a favourite in my collection. MKII British Sten gun with SOE grip. SOE used this hand grip as the gun could be more easily concealed. This can be taken off quickly and the barrel unscrewed, leaving three parts, well, four including the mag. Broken down the mag was the longest part and a broken down Sten could easily be concealed in pockets or even a hand bag. Not only did SOE use these, but also Flemings 30 AU and various Commando Units. Fleming himself fired many a Sten on the range.
We dropped the standard T-Stock and Skeleton Stock versions to Resistance groups throughout the world, and from the MK II onwards they were in fact excellent and accurate weapons. The stories about them jamming were mainly due to incorrect handling as untrained shooters would use the magazine as a handle instead of the barrel grip. Stens were famously manufactured in many toy factories throughout Britain, the parts were also farmed out to hundreds of factories for production, so bombed factories wouldn't damage rate of production that was desperately needed during those years.
Where do I ask for this thread to be stickied? It is of great interest to both military historians & Bond fans alike, the latter by virtue of the fascinating gadgets which must have been an inspiration to IF.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 26,420Chief of Staff
Where do I ask for this thread to be stickied? It is of great interest to both military historians & Bond fans alike, the latter by virtue of the fascinating gadgets which must have been an inspiration to IF.
You could ask any MOD to do this....
YNWA 97
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,483MI6 Agent
Thank you gentlemen.
Here's a bit more info on the carrier pigeon message capsule, I posted earlier. You'd think it was pretty boring and unimportant, but the truth is far more interesting.
They were used widely during both wars, especially during WWI of course. During WWII, they were still very important. SOE had pigeons dropped into occupied Europe in cardboard carriers much like our agents.... by parachute. Our drop planes had special chutes adapted for them in the bomb bays. These reinforced cardboard carriers were thrust down the chute and the static line would open soon after it left the plane. The Nazi's used to use the captured pigeons to send false messages back, sometimes to confuse our intelligence by supplying bogus information. In reality, the Axis troops used to send far more rude messages back telling us to go screw ourselves etc, but the majority of captured pigeons were eaten by cunning troops thinking of their stomachs more than their duty.
These lighter message tubes were made specifically for SOE and Marquis forces to put information in and send back to the UK, and were made more comfortable and lighter than the standard aluminium versions used previously. All SOE agents were given full training in pigeon handling. Many women tried to sneak to the back of the queue to avoid this, but it was a necessary skill, so they had to get over their fears. Pigeons were an incredibly important intelligence courier service. It was down to their importance that hawks and falcons were shot almost to extinction during the two great wars, as they were a greater threat to our intelligence gathering than the Nazi's were. Even now seventy five years later their numbers are only just recovering in some species. The pigeons thrive on, and many of their descendants can be seen in most towns and cities in the UK.
Where do I ask for this thread to be stickied? It is of great interest to both military historians & Bond fans alike, the latter by virtue of the fascinating gadgets which must have been an inspiration to IF.
You could ask any MOD to do this....
Many thanks for that. This excellent thread deserves to stay where people can easily find it.
The carrier pigeon was indeed a very important part of the war effort. Anyone remember the story of the remains of one which was found up a chimney a while ago? I think they handed the message to GCHQ who couldn't crack it!
Also I believe more Dikin medals were awarded to pigeons than any other animal.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,483MI6 Agent
The carrier pigeon was indeed a very important part of the war effort. Anyone remember the story of the remains of one which was found up a chimney a while ago? I think they handed the message to GCHQ who couldn't crack it!
Also I believe more Dikin medals were awarded to pigeons than any other animal.
You know your stuff, that's for sure. Animals were hugely important to our success. I remember a SOE agent operating in Burma recounting his experiences. The local Karen people were requesting a 'war dog' as they could pick up an odd scent from several miles away. In fact, even long term SOE operatives living in the jungle could tell when a Japanese soldier relieved himself some miles away as their senses were enhanced through long term acclimatisation (something I experienced myself in Venezuela when on exped). Anyway, we acknowledged the Karen request and along with an ammunition supply, sent a young Alsation bitch down the chute in a cardboard cage to assist in their efforts. The static line failed to open the parachute. I hate to think what that dog experienced tumbling in a box several hundred feet into the earth as it had no control of its fate. Many people ignore the suffering of animals, but we're all part of the same eco system, and at least when we jump from planes, we comprehend whats happening.
Agreed. Also the Germans were fully aware of the British use of pigeons & ordered their troops to shoot any they saw. I believe they (the Germans) also used birds of prey to kill pigeons for the same reason.
Many racing pigeons were 'conscripted' to serve in the war effort including champion birds.
I'm unsure about this but I think I read somewhere that RAF bombers may have carried pigeons so, in case of crash landing in enemy territory, they could release the bird along with a message to inform the powers that be of their fate?
If Pigeons interest you, you should try to find out as much as possible about Flight Lieutenant Richard Melville Walker and his "The Pigeon Service Special Section, B3C". Same unit also deployed falcons to take down any german spy pigeons.
"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech
Thats if the Pigeon had not been killed during the Crash.
Yes that's what I thought at the time - also assuming the crew hadn't met the same fate! I'm sure I read this somewhere though. I remember seeing a photo of the container they were kept in, it was designed to protect the bird in the event of a forced landing (of the plane not it!). It's a long time ago so I may be altogether wrong.
Here's a little gem and a favourite in my collection. MKII British Sten gun with SOE grip. SOE used this hand grip as the gun could be more easily concealed. This can be taken off quickly and the barrel unscrewed, leaving three parts, well, four including the mag. Broken down the mag was the longest part and a broken down Sten could easily be concealed in pockets or even a hand bag. Not only did SOE use these, but also Flemings 30 AU and various Commando Units. Fleming himself fired many a Sten on the range.
We dropped the standard T-Stock and Skeleton Stock versions to Resistance groups throughout the world, and from the MK II onwards they were in fact excellent and accurate weapons. The stories about them jamming were mainly due to incorrect handling as untrained shooters would use the magazine as a handle instead of the barrel grip. Stens were famously manufactured in many toy factories throughout Britain, the parts were also farmed out to hundreds of factories for production, so bombed factories wouldn't damage rate of production that was desperately needed during those years.
Continuing on from this post, I was lucky enough today to secure a silenced MKII Sten. It's well documented that Fleming experienced shooting one of these as he commented on how impressed he was by the noise reduction in one of his letters to Boothroyd when discussing silencers. I've been after one of these for a while as an old spec deac, so it's a great coincidence that my patience paid off after posting this.
.................................
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 26,420Chief of Staff
Nice piece....lucky you -{
YNWA 97
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,648MI6 Agent
Great to see that this excellent thread has been made a Sticky. -{
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
I watched a good programme this evening called 'State Secrets'. I delved a little into the SOE archive. One item I thought good was Hitlers passport, as produced by the SOE forgery section. It had been made as an in joke for the SOE top brass. It was a perfect copy of a ,then, German passport & showed the holder as Adolf Hitler, SOE had seen fit to print a large J on the face of the document which marked Hitler out as a Jew. The stamps said that he had travelled to Palestine & the story to back it up said he had emigrated there in 1941 after converting to Judaism.
It also mentioned Ian Fleming & the fact that SOE was an inspiration for his Gadgets.
Comments
I'm not doubting what you say, but I believe that Fleming combined this with the way his work in the Kemsley newspaper group was organised. Some of their operatives ended up in his novels (I'm thinking of YOLT here).
I'm not familiar with the Dirctorat of War Planning. What was it and do you have a link?
These were known as the Auxiliaries & were part of the Home Guard. They were made up of volunteers who would act as stay behind saboteurs/assassins in the event of invasion. They were highly trained & the whole project was above top secret. Some of their bunkers still exist. Indeed one was unearthed some years ago & it still contained (in perfect condition) all the firearms & explosives to be used by the Auxiliary unit who would have fought from it.
They had no connection to SOE.
I've just gone away & had a look on the net & found this great link:
http://www.coleshillhouse.com/
There is a very well hidden bunker with tunnels on private property by me. No one goes there as it's deep in woodland on private land and I only found it by accident as I had permission to survey for adders there back in 2010. There isn't any equipment there, but there are used rat packs dated 1941 scattered about. Unfortunately two of the main spaces have collapsed. It's a large bat roost now so I don't go in there too often, but I've always wanted to run a metal detector around the area to see what turns up.
For those who don't know the bunkers were self contained bases from which the Auxiliaries would fight. They were underground & built so as to be completely invisible. The average life expectancy of each cell being just two weeks. The task of each unit was sabotage & assassination of both Germans & collaborators. Indeed many cells were issued with a 'hit list' of locals they would have to kill if the enemy came into their area. Being part of the Home Guard didn't mean these men were 'Dads Army' in 1940 they had their pick of the very best weapons & were trained to a far higher standard than any regular troops.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32wz5BGzyfM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7QHAdK6kD8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn4Rm0bo6-M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VlhGbCOMSk
Cool pics ASP -{
Here is the link:
http://www.eliteukforces.info/mi6/
We dropped the standard T-Stock and Skeleton Stock versions to Resistance groups throughout the world, and from the MK II onwards they were in fact excellent and accurate weapons. The stories about them jamming were mainly due to incorrect handling as untrained shooters would use the magazine as a handle instead of the barrel grip. Stens were famously manufactured in many toy factories throughout Britain, the parts were also farmed out to hundreds of factories for production, so bombed factories wouldn't damage rate of production that was desperately needed during those years.
You could ask any MOD to do this....
Here's a bit more info on the carrier pigeon message capsule, I posted earlier. You'd think it was pretty boring and unimportant, but the truth is far more interesting.
They were used widely during both wars, especially during WWI of course. During WWII, they were still very important. SOE had pigeons dropped into occupied Europe in cardboard carriers much like our agents.... by parachute. Our drop planes had special chutes adapted for them in the bomb bays. These reinforced cardboard carriers were thrust down the chute and the static line would open soon after it left the plane. The Nazi's used to use the captured pigeons to send false messages back, sometimes to confuse our intelligence by supplying bogus information. In reality, the Axis troops used to send far more rude messages back telling us to go screw ourselves etc, but the majority of captured pigeons were eaten by cunning troops thinking of their stomachs more than their duty.
These lighter message tubes were made specifically for SOE and Marquis forces to put information in and send back to the UK, and were made more comfortable and lighter than the standard aluminium versions used previously. All SOE agents were given full training in pigeon handling. Many women tried to sneak to the back of the queue to avoid this, but it was a necessary skill, so they had to get over their fears. Pigeons were an incredibly important intelligence courier service. It was down to their importance that hawks and falcons were shot almost to extinction during the two great wars, as they were a greater threat to our intelligence gathering than the Nazi's were. Even now seventy five years later their numbers are only just recovering in some species. The pigeons thrive on, and many of their descendants can be seen in most towns and cities in the UK.
Many thanks for that. This excellent thread deserves to stay where people can easily find it.
Also I believe more Dikin medals were awarded to pigeons than any other animal.
You know your stuff, that's for sure. Animals were hugely important to our success. I remember a SOE agent operating in Burma recounting his experiences. The local Karen people were requesting a 'war dog' as they could pick up an odd scent from several miles away. In fact, even long term SOE operatives living in the jungle could tell when a Japanese soldier relieved himself some miles away as their senses were enhanced through long term acclimatisation (something I experienced myself in Venezuela when on exped). Anyway, we acknowledged the Karen request and along with an ammunition supply, sent a young Alsation bitch down the chute in a cardboard cage to assist in their efforts. The static line failed to open the parachute. I hate to think what that dog experienced tumbling in a box several hundred feet into the earth as it had no control of its fate. Many people ignore the suffering of animals, but we're all part of the same eco system, and at least when we jump from planes, we comprehend whats happening.
Many racing pigeons were 'conscripted' to serve in the war effort including champion birds.
I'm unsure about this but I think I read somewhere that RAF bombers may have carried pigeons so, in case of crash landing in enemy territory, they could release the bird along with a message to inform the powers that be of their fate?
-Mr Arlington Beech
Yes that's what I thought at the time - also assuming the crew hadn't met the same fate! I'm sure I read this somewhere though. I remember seeing a photo of the container they were kept in, it was designed to protect the bird in the event of a forced landing (of the plane not it!). It's a long time ago so I may be altogether wrong.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-17138990
Continuing on from this post, I was lucky enough today to secure a silenced MKII Sten. It's well documented that Fleming experienced shooting one of these as he commented on how impressed he was by the noise reduction in one of his letters to Boothroyd when discussing silencers. I've been after one of these for a while as an old spec deac, so it's a great coincidence that my patience paid off after posting this.
It also mentioned Ian Fleming & the fact that SOE was an inspiration for his Gadgets.