Pros and Cons: Tomorrow Never Dies

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    M n M wrote:
    So it played to me like a cartoon that wanted to be taken seriously
    Ummm... isn't that what Bond movies are? ?:)
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    M n M wrote:
    My problems with TND were the same as my problems with all the brosnan films - they wanted to be sensible and absurd at the same time and you can't do both

    Mostly agree. I felt like Goldeneye got away with it because it kept the serious elements where they belonged and kept the funny elements where they belonged. And I was totally fine with that. But Imagine if Goldeneye took out Boris and just made Alec Trevelyan shout "I am invincible!!" all of the time instead. Then, you'd get something like Tomorrow Never Dies.
  • M 'n' MM 'n' M Posts: 105MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    M n M wrote:
    So it played to me like a cartoon that wanted to be taken seriously
    Ummm... isn't that what Bond movies are? ?:)

    No - I don't think so. Connery (mostly), lazenby, Dalton and Craig films weren't cartoons. Daf and most of the moore films probably were but they were internally consistent.

    The brosnan films were a composite and trying to strike a balance is the problem
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    Brosnan was a mix of Dalton and Moore.
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Over the years Brosnan has fallen down my rankings as 007, he's
    Now bottom of the list, but that doesn't mean I dislike him etc. I
    Do enjoy his films, I simply feel others have done it better. :)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    Brosnan himself said that he never really nailed the Character down probably.
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    I also think Brosnan was a better actor than he was allowed to be, due
    To weak scripts, some bad directors. He has put in some great performances
    In other films, but sadly it never came together with Bond. :#
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    If he had done a filth Film, it most likely would have been similar to FYEO.
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Agreed after the excesses of DAD, Bond would have to be brought back
    To a more realistic basis.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    It would have been interesting to see the Tarantino Version of CR that he wanted to make though -{
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • broadshoulderbroadshoulder Acton, London, UKPosts: 1,363MI6 Agent
    It would have been interesting to see the Tarantino Version of CR that he wanted to make though -{

    You actually believe that?

    A Tarantino version of CR was just not going to happen

    Brosnan was a composite of Moore.......and Moore
    1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    edited February 2015
    It was rumored, that's all.
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    A fifth Brosnan FYEO-like film would have avoided the hard-edge Batman-esque trend of the Craig films. Whether that would have been a good thing or not, who knows.
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    Brosnan would have been too old for a filth Film anyway.
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    A fifth Brosnan FYEO-like film would have avoided the hard-edge Batman-esque trend of the Craig films.
    Upon what do you base this, good sir?
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    A fifth Brosnan FYEO-like film would have avoided the hard-edge Batman-esque trend of the Craig films. Whether that would have been a good thing or not, who knows.

    The Reboot would have happened anyway.
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    Just watched this for the second time on Blu Ray and I'm sorely tempted to put this as my #1 Bond flick (only Dalton's brilliance prevents it) as it is in my opinion an excellent 'remake' of YOLT (in the basic concepts) and the overall perfect 'BIG' Bond flick.
    I noticed the editing this time around in particular; actor's reactions to little bits of dialogue were expertly referenced to in quick & effective shots. Michel Arcand &
    Dominique Fortin did one helluva job in that department.
    Music was traditionally & emotionally engaging...
    FX were (unlike parts of GE) uniformly excellent, even on BD.

    Just pure fun with no reservations.
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Lady IceLady Ice Posts: 279MI6 Agent
    Tomorrow Never Dies is all right. Carver is too much of a cartoony nutter to be really disturbing but then the Bond series is still 'family friendly' (ish) and the real evil of Murdoch would be too disturbing for a Bond film. If they would go that far, it would be more suited to the Dalton era; it is just too dark for Brosnan Bond. So whilst Carver is very much a panto villain, it fits with the style of the Brosnan films.

    Paris Carver is rubbish; I hate the mistress-as-fodder trope but to be honest, she was pretty boring anyway. Wai Lin is great but she looks like she could have Bond for breakfast. Still, it's nice to see a genuinely kick-ass Bond girl, even if it does show up Bond. Yet again Brosnan still looks like a banker and the banker references in his films don't help (In GE Alec robs banks; in TND he poses as a banker and in TWINE he visits a Swiss bank).

    I found Stamper a boring henchman; I think with a more comic villain they could have had a more memorable and scary henchman to compensate.

    The film is watchable and has some entertaining moments but the central menace just isn't menacing enough and Bond feels like a passenger next to Wai Lin.
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    Just watched this for the second time on Blu Ray and I'm sorely tempted to put this as my #1 Bond flick (only Dalton's brilliance prevents it) as it is in my opinion an excellent 'remake' of YOLT (in the basic concepts) and the overall perfect 'BIG' Bond flick.
    I noticed the editing this time around in particular; actor's reactions to little bits of dialogue were expertly referenced to in quick & effective shots. Michel Arcand &
    Dominique Fortin did one helluva job in that department.
    Music was traditionally & emotionally engaging...
    FX were (unlike parts of GE) uniformly excellent, even on BD.

    Just pure fun with no reservations.

    Hey what about the actor who played 'bloke on the backseat'? :v
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    We never talk about him ;)
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • broadshoulderbroadshoulder Acton, London, UKPosts: 1,363MI6 Agent
    Lady Ice wrote:
    T. Wai Lin is great but she looks like she could have Bond for breakfast. Still, it's nice to see a genuinely kick-ass Bond girl, even if it does show up Bond. .

    Wai Lin is a completely forgettable Bond girl? Does she own a personality? Possibly one of the worst...
    1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    Higgins wrote:
    Hey what about the actor who played 'bloke on the backseat'? :v
    He was excellently back-seat-y. -{
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Lady IceLady Ice Posts: 279MI6 Agent
    Lady Ice wrote:
    T. Wai Lin is great but she looks like she could have Bond for breakfast. Still, it's nice to see a genuinely kick-ass Bond girl, even if it does show up Bond. .

    Wai Lin is a completely forgettable Bond girl? Does she own a personality? Possibly one of the worst...

    Lots of Bond girls don't really have a personality; I just like that she looks like a genuinely competent fighter.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Michelle Yeoh is a very beautiful woman and a talented martial artist. -{
    I love her and her character Wai Lin.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • HatThrowingHenchmanHatThrowingHenchman Russia With LovePosts: 1,834MI6 Agent
    Lady Ice wrote:
    I found Stamper a boring henchman; I think with a more comic villain they could have had a more memorable and scary henchman to compensate.

    but I don't think a Jaws would have worked out in the late 90's
    "You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    A Jaws like Villain could though.
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    I find Stamper to be very amusing.
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    I liked Stamper, he's the only henchman who ever tried to protect his boss. ;)
    When Bond throws a knife at Carver, Stamper throws himself across him to
    take the knife for him. :D most henchmen just fixate on killing Bond. I also
    Loved Bonds use of the knife at the end, escaping from an inescapable situation.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • HatThrowingHenchmanHatThrowingHenchman Russia With LovePosts: 1,834MI6 Agent
    A Jaws like Villain could though.

    personally I think that if all Brosnan villains stayed the same and they just went crazy with Stamper it would be an odd standout

    "I owe you an unpleasant death, mr.Bond" - brilliant
    "You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
    He did have some good Lines :)
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
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