76 Reply by Barbel

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Re: Pros and Cons: Dr. No

AnotherJamesBOnd wrote:

The older I get, the more I like Dr. No.

In youth, you want to go into space with Roger Moore, as a teenager you want to scale a mountain with Timothy Dalton, as a young adult you want to have the good looks of a Pierce Brosnan with an invisible car.  When you become a man, you want to be Daniel Craig, because it looks like he can really shoot a real machine gun and drive down real streets in London.

But, when you retire, you just want to walk across the floor of a nice French hotel, and have nicely dressed women flirt with you.

Ah good, it's not just me then!  ajb007/cheers

(Off-topic: when I was younger I preferred to listen to the mature Frank Sinatra's voice ("My Way", "NY, NY", etc)- nowadays I prefer to hear his young voice ("Saturday Night", "If You Are But A Dream", etc). I suppose it's the same phenomenon.)

77 Reply by Agent Purple

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Re: Pros and Cons: Dr. No

Dr. No is a pretty good movie to just sit back and drink a nice Margarita to.

Not that I've actually drank one while watching the movie, but I think it makes sense.

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78 Reply by Virgil37

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Re: Pros and Cons: Dr. No

AnotherJamesBOnd wrote:

The older I get, the more I like Dr. No.

In youth, you want to go into space with Roger Moore, as a teenager you want to scale a mountain with Timothy Dalton, as a young adult you want to have the good looks of a Pierce Brosnan with an invisible car.  When you become a man, you want to be Daniel Craig, because it looks like he can really shoot a real machine gun and drive down real streets in London.

But, when you retire, you just want to walk across the floor of a nice French hotel, and have nicely dressed women flirt with you.

Great post!!

79 Reply by Virgil37

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Re: Pros and Cons: Dr. No

Thunderpussy wrote:

David Niven, Cary Grant and James Mason were all mentioned.

I always had the feeling that when Ian Fleming saw Cary Grant in Hitchcock's Notorious, he went "that's the spy I will write books about".

80 Reply by Barbel

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Re: Pros and Cons: Dr. No

I think Terence Young had the recently deceased Richard Johnson in mind.
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81 Reply by Virgil37

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Re: Pros and Cons: Dr. No

CoolHandBond wrote:

Bond has been in the service for 10 years and M says casualties have fallen 40% since he has been in charge so does this mean that M is a more recent employee to the service than Bond is?

Of course. Thankfully we have the whole backstory filmed in CR, QoS and SF  ajb007/smile

82 Reply by DigificWriter

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Re: Pros and Cons: Dr. No

Pros
+ Honey Rider and James' relationship is very evocative of the relationship between Craig!James and Vesper
+ Dr. No, like Le Chifre and Dominic Greene from the New!Bond Continuity, feels like a fully realized character in spite of being quite over-the-top conceptually
+ The fight between James and No is quite brutal and really helps sell James' "killer instincts"

Cons
- Not as expository as it could've and probably ought to have been given its status as an 'entry point's for the world of James Bond on film
- The bad guys are able to get the better of James a little more easily and more often than they ought to

83 Reply by Agent Purple

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Re: Pros and Cons: Dr. No

DigificWriter wrote:

Pros
+ Honey Rider and James' relationship is very evocative of the relationship between Craig!James and Vesper
+ Dr. No, like Le Chifre and Dominic Greene from the New!Bond Continuity, feels like a fully realized character in spite of being quite over-the-top conceptually
+ The fight between James and No is quite brutal and really helps sell James' "killer instincts"

Cons
- Not as expository as it could've and probably ought to have been given its status as an 'entry point's for the world of James Bond on film
- The bad guys are able to get the better of James a little more easily and more often than they ought to

I get the impression that you're a big Craig fan, seeing how you compare elements of this movie to elements of the current Bond Era.

I find nothing in common between the Bond/Honey relationship and the Bond/Vesper relationship, but whatever.

"Hostile takeovers.  Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD  2. TND  3. GF  4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later

84 Reply by Thunderpussy

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Re: Pros and Cons: Dr. No

We all see what we want to see   ajb007/wink

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85 Reply by DigificWriter

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Re: Pros and Cons: Dr. No

Agent Purple wrote:

I get the impression that you're a big Craig fan, seeing how you compare elements of this movie to elements of the current Bond Era.

Because Tomorrow Never Dies had previously been the only one of the pre-Craig films I had seen prior to starting a watch-through of the films last week, the Craig Era films represent for me the 'definitive' James Bond, and my impressions of the earlier films are therefore going to be 'colored' and 'influenced' by my having, for all intents and purposes, experienced the Craig films and what they bring to the table FIRST.

86 Reply by Matt S

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Re: Pros and Cons: Dr. No

DigificWriter wrote:
Agent Purple wrote:

I get the impression that you're a big Craig fan, seeing how you compare elements of this movie to elements of the current Bond Era.

Because Tomorrow Never Dies had previously been the only one of the pre-Craig films I had seen prior to starting a watch-through of the films last week, the Craig Era films represent for me the 'definitive' James Bond, and my impressions of the earlier films are therefore going to be 'colored' and 'influenced' by my having, for all intents and purposes, experienced the Craig films and what they bring to the table FIRST.

I'd really like to know how you can compare Vesper to Honey.

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87 Reply by DigificWriter

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Re: Pros and Cons: Dr. No

Matt S wrote:

I'd really like to know how you can compare Vesper to Honey.

I addressed it a bit in my Dr. No review, but here's where I see similarities:
In both DN and CR, the female characters who end up at the center of those two stories both interact with Bond in a way that is in many respects 'removed' from the rest of the film in that their interactions, unlike those between Bond and some of his other 'leading ladies' in both continuities, are quite 'self-contained' and intimately personal in their own right.

We don't get to see Honey and James spend as much time with each other as Craig!James and Vesper do (simply because of the pacing of the film), but by the time we get to the final scene, we're still left with the sense that she and James have forged a connection that goes beyond just 'the hero and the pretty girl getting together', which is very much where the Vesper/Craig!James relationship ends up, albeit with more tragic consequences (and in spite of Craig!James coldly telling M 'the bitch is dead').

As a more specific example, the scenes between Honey and James after they've both been detained by No's soldiers and are interacting with each other 'under house arrest', as it were (both prior to and after being drugged) evoked for me the same kind of feelings I got from the scenes where Craig!James and Vesper are interacting both before the card game with Le Chifre (when they're still very much trying to find their own' footing' with each other and haven't yet realized their attraction to each other) and after (when he's talking about giving up his job as a secret agent for her).

88 Reply by Matt S

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Re: Pros and Cons: Dr. No

DigificWriter wrote:
Matt S wrote:

I'd really like to know how you can compare Vesper to Honey.

I addressed it a bit in my Dr. No review, but here's where I see similarities:
In both DN and CR, the female characters who end up at the center of those two stories both interact with Bond in a way that is in many respects 'removed' from the rest of the film in that their interactions, unlike those between Bond and some of his other 'leading ladies' in both continuities, are quite 'self-contained' and intimately personal in their own right.

We don't get to see Honey and James spend as much time with each other as Craig!James and Vesper do (simply because of the pacing of the film), but by the time we get to the final scene, we're still left with the sense that she and James have forged a connection that goes beyond just 'the hero and the pretty girl getting together', which is very much where the Vesper/Craig!James relationship ends up, albeit with more tragic consequences (and in spite of Craig!James coldly telling M 'the bitch is dead').

As a more specific example, the scenes between Honey and James after they've both been detained by No's soldiers and are interacting with each other 'under house arrest', as it were (both prior to and after being drugged) evoked for me the same kind of feelings I got from the scenes where Craig!James and Vesper are interacting both before the card game with Le Chifre (when they're still very much trying to find their own' footing' with each other and haven't yet realized their attraction to each other) and after (when he's talking about giving up his job as a secret agent for her).

But Honey is not at the centre of the story and isn't an important character at all. She's really just there to give women someone to relate to. She adds very little to the film. She's really just a pretty girl to have along. Vesper is so much more to the story and to the Bond. Honey really is nothing more than 'the hero and the pretty girl getting together'. Bond and Honey have no special connection. Their relationship is exactly the same as almost every other relationship you'll find in the series.

And might I kindly ask that you stop referring to Craig's Bond as "Craig!James". Use "Craig!Bond" if you absolutely cannot just say "Bond".

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89 Reply by DigificWriter

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Re: Pros and Cons: Dr. No

^ Honey and Vesper do have different roles to play in terms of their significance to the storyline as a whole, yes, but that's not how I perceived the way in which the two characters interacted with their respective Bonds.

90 Reply by Matt S

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Re: Pros and Cons: Dr. No

DigificWriter wrote:

^ Honey and Vesper do have different roles to play in terms of their significance to the storyline as a whole, yes, but that's not how I perceived the way in which the two characters interacted with their respective Bonds.

I think after you watch a few more Bond films you'll find less meaning in Bond and Honey's relationship.

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91 Reply by DigificWriter

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Re: Pros and Cons: Dr. No

^ If it's going to happen, it hasn't so far, since I've also seen similarities between the way that James and Honey interact and the way that James interacts with Tatiana and Domino in FRwL and TB, respectively (the latter of which I'll touch on more in-depth when I post my full review of TB).

I've also seen differences between the way he interacts with Honey, Tatiana, and Domino and the way in which he interacted with Jill, Tilly, and Pussy Galore in Goldfinger (where his interactions with Tilly reminded me of the way that Daniel Craig's version of the character interacts with Camille in QoS), so it can't really be chalked up to just being part of a 'James Bond formula' for how the character interacts with the female characters he encounters.

92 Reply by Matt S

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Re: Pros and Cons: Dr. No

DigificWriter wrote:

^ If it's going to happen, it hasn't so far, since I've also seen similarities between the way that James and Honey interact and the way that James interacts with Tatiana and Domino in FRwL and TB, respectively (the latter of which I'll touch on more in-depth when I post my full review of TB).

Bond has no feelings (besides instinctual) for any of these girls. You Only Live Twice features the first girl Bond seems to have more feeling for, but he's not in love with her like he is with Tracy and Vesper.

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93 Reply by DigificWriter

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Re: Pros and Cons: Dr. No

Matt S wrote:
DigificWriter wrote:

^ If it's going to happen, it hasn't so far, since I've also seen similarities between the way that James and Honey interact and the way that James interacts with Tatiana and Domino in FRwL and TB, respectively (the latter of which I'll touch on more in-depth when I post my full review of TB).

Bond has no feelings (besides instinctual) for any of these girls.

That's not the impression I've been left with, so "to each their own". ajb007/smile

94 Reply by Barbel

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Re: Pros and Cons: Dr. No

I'll have one go:

Honey is an innocent, caught up in a scheme she knows nothing of. She has no idea who Bond and Dr No are, and very little of what they're up to, but recognises Bond as a good guy and joins forces with him, willingly falling for his charms in the process. In a sense, she could be described as "child-like" in her character and possibly the most so of any of the leading female characters (no, Bibi doesn't count).

Vesper is in no way, shape or form an innocent. She knows exactly who Bond and Le Chiffre are, precisely what they're up to, and her role in all this. She is under extreme pressure from both the bad guys and the good and struggles against her growing attraction to Bond since this would imperil her (she thinks) existing lover, leading to her tortured situation at the end of the story. She's a grown woman in an adult situation.

Naturally, Bond reacts to these two very different characters in different ways.

95 Reply by Matt S

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Re: Pros and Cons: Dr. No

DigificWriter wrote:
Matt S wrote:
DigificWriter wrote:

^ If it's going to happen, it hasn't so far, since I've also seen similarities between the way that James and Honey interact and the way that James interacts with Tatiana and Domino in FRwL and TB, respectively (the latter of which I'll touch on more in-depth when I post my full review of TB).

Bond has no feelings (besides instinctual) for any of these girls.

That's not the impression I've been left with, so "to each their own". ajb007/smile

Just like with Honey, Tatiana and Domino, Bond's charms have fooled you too.  ajb007/heart

Last edited by Matt S (21st Oct 2015 17:00)

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96 Reply by Thunderpussy

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Re: Pros and Cons: Dr. No

ajb007/martini   ajb007/lol

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97 Reply by DigificWriter

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Re: Pros and Cons: Dr. No

Matt S wrote:

Just like with Honey, Tatiana and Domina, Bond's charms have fooled you too.  ajb007/heart

Well-played, Sir. Well-played indeed. ajb007/biggrin

98 Reply by Mr Snow

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Re: Pros and Cons: Dr. No

Dr. No is one of the best Bond films I've seen.  Many iconic scenes that have been mentioned here; Honey Rider walking out of the ocean, Bond's first lines in the casino, Dr. No as a villain (apparently Joseph Wiseman was extremely nervous but I thought he did an excellent job), Sylvia Trench playing golf (well sort of) in a business shirt, the idyllic locations in Jamaica, dialogue, very well cast (M, Miss Moneypenny, Professor Dent, Miss Taro, Quarrell, Felix Leiter) and some memorable quotes that I've attached.  One in particular stood out for me that I can't see on this list was:

Sister Lily: Don't hesitate to ring if there's anything else you want.  Anything at all.
James Bond: Two air tickets to London?

https://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/movies/ … php3?t=mi6

Not a lot of cons but I agree with a few other posters that Honey Rider could have had more to say and do and came across as much more intelligent in the book. 

Finally, I thought Jack Lord was brilliant as Felix Leiter.  I may get shot down in flames for this but I thought that out of Bond and Leiter (particularly at Puss Feller's restaurant), Leiter seemed more cool and in control than Bond - not making a comparison as such but that was just my observation.

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99 Reply by Bondage007

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Re: Pros and Cons: Dr. No

OGG007 wrote:

Finally, I thought Jack Lord was brilliant as Felix Leiter.  I may get shot down in flames for this but I thought that out of Bond and Leiter (particularly at Puss Feller's restaurant), Leiter seemed more cool and in control than Bond - not making a comparison as such but that was just my observation.

Not an uncommon opinion among Bond fans, Lord is rated very highly. But cooler than Bond? Not something you hear everyday!  ajb007/lol  ajb007/martini

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100 Reply by Penfold Heart

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Re: Pros and Cons: Dr. No

OGG007 wrote:

Dr. No is one of the best Bond films I've seen.  Many iconic scenes that have been mentioned here; Honey Rider walking out of the ocean, Bond's first lines in the casino, Dr. No as a villain (apparently Joseph Wiseman was extremely nervous but I thought he did an excellent job), Sylvia Trench playing golf (well sort of) in a business shirt, the idyllic locations in Jamaica, dialogue, very well cast (M, Miss Moneypenny, Professor Dent, Miss Taro, Quarrell, Felix Leiter) and some memorable quotes that I've attached.  One in particular stood out for me that I can't see on this list was:

Sister Lily: Don't hesitate to ring if there's anything else you want.  Anything at all.
James Bond: Two air tickets to London?

https://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/movies/ … php3?t=mi6

Not a lot of cons but I agree with a few other posters that Honey Rider could have had more to say and do and came across as much more intelligent in the book. 

Finally, I thought Jack Lord was brilliant as Felix Leiter.  I may get shot down in flames for this but I thought that out of Bond and Leiter (particularly at Puss Feller's restaurant), Leiter seemed more cool and in control than Bond - not making a comparison as such but that was just my observation.

It is an excellent film, the first four Connery films, along with the Living Daylights make up my top 5 ajb007/martini