26

Re: Why did they remove it?

Loeffelholz wrote:
Gassy Man wrote:

The Spectre script, being as thin as it is, does seem like a holdover from some earlier plan to make two films back to back.  That might explain why so much in Spectre just seems like set up, without a lot of integrity to the scenes in resolving a complete story.

Which is why, IMO, it will be a shame if Craig were to walk now, with ESB in custody and Bond's romantic contentment left as loose ends. It would be a curious place for Actor #7 to step in...but I suppose it affords as many opportunities as it does challenges.

I'm pretty much agnostic on whether he should come back again. What I am completely clear about that if he does it should not be a continuation of this particular arc ( S.P. E.C.T.R.E) can return at a later date if they must, just not now. We need at least one new arc, and to leave the past behind for a while. This might be easier with a new actor, but it could be done.The series/reboot needs to establish some new traditions of its own as it has mined its own legacy to the point of extinction. SP was fun, but enough now, but  I guess it's entirely up to Daniel.Either way we need some fresh thinking and better writing.

Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.

27

Re: Why did they remove it?

I was thinking the other night. If  Blofeld was done ( ticked off the box), might they
use another relative  ( as in a continuing  novel) . As they do seem to love a back story,
and this would give an opportunity  for a " Dark knight rises"  type story ?
They have used the odd element from the Non Fleming books, like the  torture  scene in
spectre.

“I didn’t lose a friend, I just realised I never had one.”

28

Re: Why did they remove it?

If Bond had said the line at the end of SPECTRE, it would have tied the hands of the scriptwriters seriously. They would have a very strong pressure to make Bond 25# too simular to OHMSS. The way SPECTRE realy ended was far better. Does Bond resign? Will Madeline return? Will she get killed? With the ending they went with they can go in many directionsb because the ending was open-ended.

29

Re: Why did they remove it?

In regards to the non-Fleming novels, it would be interesting if they did something similar to Nobody Lives Forever. They could have Blofeld in custody for the entire film, but he's put a price on Bond's head and Bond has to run the gauntlet for the entire film. It would depend on the writers, or course. A non-stop chase would probably get boring. They could have a separate story going on in which SPECTRE will commit an atrocity if Blofeld is not released, thereby blackmailing the British government into setting him free. Madeline could get killed in the crossfire, instead of being deliberately assassinated by Blofeld. Or she could survive, it doesn't matter. Bond would have reason enough to go after him in another film.

"I cannot reach what serves you for a mind." - Ernst Stavro Blofeld

30

Re: Why did they remove it?

Spectreville wrote:

In regards to the non-Fleming novels, it would be interesting if they did something similar to Nobody Lives Forever. They could have Blofeld in custody for the entire film, but he's put a price on Bond's head and Bond has to run the gauntlet for the entire film. It would depend on the writers, or course. A non-stop chase would probably get boring. They could have a separate story going on in which SPECTRE will commit an atrocity if Blofeld is not released, thereby blackmailing the British government into setting him free. Madeline could get killed in the crossfire, instead of being deliberately assassinated by Blofeld. Or she could survive, it doesn't matter. Bond would have reason enough to go after him in another film.

Seems a good place to start from in terms of developing a story  ajb007/martini

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

31

Re: Why did they remove it?

Trouble with this story would be that the new-age SPECTRE they invented is nowhere near as disciplined and powerful as the classic organisation from the last century. Its members fight each other in full view of the others, which surely creates fear and discontent, its headquarters is hidden well, but once found it can be blown to heaven with a few potshots (no need for ninjas here!), and its top leader is easily captured. Their only real success was remaining undercover for so long, but once discovered they are crushed and destroyed with a minimum of effort. They would never be able to commit an atrocity or blackmail a government - poor buggers don't even have a mastermind and a headquarters anymore! I think we should forget about SPECTRE and move on to new villains.

32

Re: Why did they remove it?

I agree. In fact it could be combined with the brainwashing plot from TMWTGG. How? The PTS is Bond saving 009 from SPECTRE captivity. When M meets the newly freed 009, the agent  tries to kill M. Moneypenny and M stops 009, something that's more believable than ever. It becomes clear that SPECTRE has ordered that the MI6 leadership and the 00-section should be killed or be victims of extortion. Bond manages to locate a SPECTRE HQ and makes shure it gets raided. SPECTRE is hit hard, but since MI6 and the 00-section had to keep their heads down necause of the threath, Blofeld manages to escape. Perhaps somone in MI6 even helped because SPECTRE kidnaped their family? Tanner perhaps?

Bond #26 could end with the garden of death and Bond killing Blofeld.

33

Re: Why did they remove it?

Whatever they decide about Bond 25, I think it would be--if not absurd--very difficult to leave Blofeld where he is.

Yes, I agree that it would be interesting to have him locked up for a film or two.

However, Daniel Craig will not be around much longer. 

And since this Blofeld is tied to Bond's past it's much more difficult to stick a new Bond actor into this established story.  All this Oberhauser/Skyfall business is too specific to the Daniel Craig James Bond. 

We can accept a change in Bonds when Bond being a widower is the only official backstory--the Moore, Dalton, and Brosnan Bonds all addressed that tragedy.  But everything else about cinematic Bond's past was up for grabs.

Now Bond has a rich and detailed history.  How can they jettison that history when it (meaning Blofeld) is staring Bond--the new Bond--right in the face?

So, yes, they may have written themselves into a corner...unless they can get Craig back and get to work very quickly on his last one or two films.  But this is the risk EON takes now that they've eschewed stand-alone adventures.

1. Sp  2.  Ohmss  3. Cr  4. Ge  5. Op  6. Ltk  7. Sf  8. Fyeo  9. Tnd  10. Qos  11. Daf  12. Tb  13. Gf  14. Lald  15. Twine 
16. Tld  17. Mr  18. Tswlm  19. Dn  20. Frwl  21. Dad  22. Avtak  23. Yolt  24. Tmwtgg

34

Re: Why did they remove it?

Dalton and Brosnan Bonds are widowers too? I must have missed something...

35

Re: Why did they remove it?

Jag wrote:

Dalton and Brosnan Bonds are widowers too? I must have missed something...

Dalton definitely. Brosnan... I got the feeling his version never lost a wife.

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.QOS 4.DN 5.GF/GE 6.SP 7.FRWL 8.TB/TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT

36

Re: Why did they remove it?

chrisisall wrote:
Jag wrote:

Dalton and Brosnan Bonds are widowers too? I must have missed something...

Dalton definitely. Brosnan... I got the feeling his version never lost a wife.

Not in TLD, which I have just re-watched. LTK will be in soon... will be paying special attention. But I think it was Bond's friend who lost the wife.  ajb007/smile

37

Re: Why did they remove it?

chrisisall wrote:
Jag wrote:

Dalton and Brosnan Bonds are widowers too? I must have missed something...

Dalton definitely. Brosnan... I got the feeling his version never lost a wife.

It's directly addressed with Dalton in LTK when Felix tells Della: "He was married once, but it was a long time ago."

And there's a nice moment in TWINE when Electra asks Brosnan's Bond if he's ever lost anyone. It's a crackerjack bit of acting on Brozzer's part, where he doesn't actually answer the question, but  we can see it on his face. Brilliantly underplayed  ajb007/bond

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

38

Re: Why did they remove it?

TWINE seems calculated to remind us of OHMSS, too, as though Elektra King is a version of Tracy, most evident in the ski scene together and how it's filmed.

39

Re: Why did they remove it?

Planning to watch both films again soon, will be waiting for the scenes you guys have mentioned with interest. Thanks!

40

Re: Why did they remove it?

Loeffelholz wrote:
chrisisall wrote:
Jag wrote:

Dalton and Brosnan Bonds are widowers too? I must have missed something...

Dalton definitely. Brosnan... I got the feeling his version never lost a wife.

It's directly addressed with Dalton in LTK when Felix tells Della: "He was married once, but it was a long time ago."

And there's a nice moment in TWINE when Electra asks Brosnan's Bond if he's ever lost anyone. It's a crackerjack bit of acting on Brozzer's part, where he doesn't actually answer the question, but  we can see it on his face. Brilliantly underplayed  ajb007/bond

Agreed. Brozzer rarely gets the credit deserved.When given the opportunity he could really deliver.

Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.

41

Re: Why did they remove it?

Spectreville wrote:

In regards to the non-Fleming novels, it would be interesting if they did something similar to Nobody Lives Forever. They could have Blofeld in custody for the entire film, but he's put a price on Bond's head and Bond has to run the gauntlet for the entire film. It would depend on the writers, or course. A non-stop chase would probably get boring. They could have a separate story going on in which SPECTRE will commit an atrocity if Blofeld is not released, thereby blackmailing the British government into setting him free. Madeline could get killed in the crossfire, instead of being deliberately assassinated by Blofeld. Or she could survive, it doesn't matter. Bond would have reason enough to go after him in another film.

I really like this plot.

Its a bit like the BBC Sherlock episode The Great Game which was really tense and ended on a cliffhanger of monumentous proportions.

42

Re: Why did they remove it?

Loeffelholz wrote:

I believe you are most likely correct...

Seconded.  ajb007/martini

Writer/Director @ The Bondologist Blog (TBB)
On Twitter: @Dragonpol 
'Like' TBB on FB: TBB Update Page
"The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).

43

Re: Why did they remove it?

Number24 wrote:

. When M meets the newly freed 009, the agent  tries to kill M. Moneypenny and M stops 009, something that's more believable than ever. It becomes clear that SPECTRE has ordered that the MI6 leadership and the 00-section should be killed or be victims of extortion. Bond manages to locate a SPECTRE HQ and makes shure it gets raided. SPECTRE is hit hard, but since MI6 and the 00-section had to keep their heads down necause of the threath, Blofeld manages to escape. Perhaps somone in MI6 even helped

Please apply to be on the Bond 25 writing team!

2019 Bondathon...in progress (6) FRWL (7) GE (8) FYEO (9) TND (10) MR (11) GF (12) LALD (13) DAF (14) LTK (15) TMWTGG (16) TB (17) TSWLM (18) DAD (19) AVTAK (20) YOLT (21) QOS (22) SF (23) TWINE (24) SP

44

Re: Why did they remove it?

Jarvio wrote:

In the leaked script, the final lines of the movie were apparaently bond saying to swann "we have all the time in the world".

This did not appear on the final film, and I am just wondering why?

I have a theory as to why they cut it:

As some people suspect, there are speculations that Madeline will get murdered by Blofeld at her and bond's wedding in the beginning of bond 25. This may well actually be the case, and so the writers cut the final dialogue because they felt it would be too big a hint that this will happen in the next film - so want to keep it as much as a surprise as possible (although having said that, everyone suspects this will happen, and they hardly kept Moneypenny and Blofeld's identity a secret).

That's an amazing assumption. I think you're right though. The OHMSS reference would have been too much.

1. Goldfinger 2. Skyfall 3. Goldeneye 4. The Spy Who Loved Me 5. OHMSS
"I never joke about my work, 007."

45

Re: Why did they remove it?

Bondage007 wrote:
Number24 wrote:

. When M meets the newly freed 009, the agent  tries to kill M. Moneypenny and M stops 009, something that's more believable than ever. It becomes clear that SPECTRE has ordered that the MI6 leadership and the 00-section should be killed or be victims of extortion. Bond manages to locate a SPECTRE HQ and makes shure it gets raided. SPECTRE is hit hard, but since MI6 and the 00-section had to keep their heads down necause of the threath, Blofeld manages to escape. Perhaps somone in MI6 even helped

Please apply to be on the Bond 25 writing team!

Thanks  ajb007/smile

46

Re: Why did they remove it?

They leave it out because hopefully she dies in the next film.