John Altman talks about what went wrong with the Goldeneye score...

Here's a very interesting article you might want to check out...

LA based, Matthew Chernov recently attended a luncheon hosted by the Academy of Scoring Arts. There, John Altman discussed his contribution to the Goldeneye score. Turns out all was not well behind the scenes...

http://jamesbondradio.com/composer-john-altman-explains-what-went-wrong-with-goldeneyes-score-exclusive-by-matthew-chernov/

Comments

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Very interesting story on the background of the score.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,596MI6 Agent
    Fascinating stuff! It's great to hear some more of the background on this. Particularly that my favourite jazz trumpet/flugelhorn player and one of my favourite composers, Kenny Wheeler, played on this recording! I've always wondered if he played on an Bond films.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    Great to see this info coming out!

    Pleasant Drive in Saint Petersburg is one of the oddest tracks within the score, interesting how the article called it the "bright-spot". If anything I find that it to be the silliest sounding track!
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    Ah, you've got two similarly-named pieces of music confused there, hmd.

    "A Pleasant Drive In St Petersburg" is the track Serra submitted, and it's the one you can hear on the OST album. This stinks.

    "Tank Drive Around St Petersburg" is the track Altman wrote (er... arranged, as it's credited to Monty Norman... now where have I heard that before? :D ) and is the one heard in the film. A faithful reproduction of this was made by Nic Raine & The City Of Prague Philharmonic Orchestra and is easily available on CD. This rocks.

    "Tank Drive" is the one the article called the bright spot.
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    Ah, you've got two similarly-named pieces of music confused there, hmd.

    "A Pleasant Drive In St Petersburg" is the track Serra submitted, and it's the one you can hear on the OST album. This stinks.

    "Tank Drive Around St Petersburg" is the track Altman wrote (er... arranged, as it's credited to Monty Norman... now where have I heard that before? :D ) and is the one heard in the film. A faithful reproduction of this was made by Nic Raine & The City Of Prague Philharmonic Orchestra and is easily available on CD. This rocks.

    "Tank Drive" is the one the article called the bright spot.

    Thank you Barbel! I assume something can be found on YouTube.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    Alas, the relevant videos have been removed :# . "Pleasant Drive" can easily be found but "Tank Drive" is only there as from the film.
  • BruceMurdockBruceMurdock OhioPosts: 133MI6 Agent
    Here's Serra's original version.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJWzNT2B810

    The City of Prague Orchestra's cover of Altman's track.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anfxljPXg7M

    There is an incomplete version of Altman's track on his Film and TV showreel album. It's not on Youtube but send me a PM and I can send it to you.
    "No for me."
    "You forgot the first rule of Mass Media Elliot! Give the people what they want!!!"
    "I never miss..."
    "Time to face gravity!"
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    No, the "Tank Drive" video has been removed.
  • BruceMurdockBruceMurdock OhioPosts: 133MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    No, the "Tank Drive" video has been removed.
    Both work fine on my end. It must be blocked to other regions.
    "No for me."
    "You forgot the first rule of Mass Media Elliot! Give the people what they want!!!"
    "I never miss..."
    "Time to face gravity!"
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    Yeah, that'll be it. I did find this though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFbfqmdfORI
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    Sidenote- I had a pleasant chat with Carl Davis some years ago about the two "St Petersburg" pieces after listening to him performing the Altman one in concert, and very well too.
  • BruceMurdockBruceMurdock OhioPosts: 133MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    Yeah, that'll be it. I did find this though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFbfqmdfORI
    That's more accurate too since it's been slightly slowed down.
    "No for me."
    "You forgot the first rule of Mass Media Elliot! Give the people what they want!!!"
    "I never miss..."
    "Time to face gravity!"
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,596MI6 Agent
    I just listened to City of Prague Philharmonic version, the film version and Serra's piece. While I really appreciate that Nic Raine made the tank chase music available to enjoy on its own, it's just not played as well as the film version. When I just listened to Raine's version, I didn't like it as much as I remembered. But then I watched the scene in the film and it had a completely different impact. The trumpet section with Derek Watkins and Kenny Wheeler explains why the film version is so much better. You couldn't find finer horn players than those two men!

    There are some negatives about Altman's tank chase music. Because it's so brilliant, it just makes it even more obvious how lacking the rest of the film's music is. And because of this, Altman's music doesn't really fit with the rest of the film's music and makes the film feel unbalanced. I almost want to say that Serra's track fits better with the rest of the soundtrack. Altman's great music just comes out of nowhere, kind of like the scene on the beach. As fantastic as it is, I find it jarring, and it takes me out of the film. Serra's tank music has some good moments (in the context of his score), but overall it's not as solid as the PTS music. But I actually think if they went back to Serra and told him they wanted something more exciting, I might have preferred that for the sake of the film's score as a whole work. But considering the time constraints, Altman doing it instead was definitely the safer move.

    Don't get me wrong, Altman's music improves the scene, but one scene does not make a movie. The mood gets better with the tank scene, and then it doesn't take long for it to drop again when the electronic sounds come back. Ideally, the film would have been better if Altman did the whole thing, but in understanding the situation, they did the best thing possible. If they had a month instead of a few days, I wonder if they would have hired Altman to re-score the entire film.

    Just a lot of 'what ifs'.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    but overall it's not as solid as the PTS music.

    You're right, IMO the PTS music is brilliant and iconic. It's a very good rendition of the Bond theme.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • BruceMurdockBruceMurdock OhioPosts: 133MI6 Agent
    The GoldenEye overture is one of my all time favorite Bond tracks.
    "No for me."
    "You forgot the first rule of Mass Media Elliot! Give the people what they want!!!"
    "I never miss..."
    "Time to face gravity!"
  • clublosclublos Jacksonville, FLPosts: 193MI6 Agent
    I don't think I've ever seen one thread with this many positive notes about Serra's work on Goldeneye!
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,596MI6 Agent
    clublos wrote:
    I don't think I've ever seen one thread with this many positive notes about Serra's work on Goldeneye!

    It's actually very popular on here. It ruins the movie for me.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • Miles MesservyMiles Messervy Posts: 1,757MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    clublos wrote:
    I don't think I've ever seen one thread with this many positive notes about Serra's work on Goldeneye!

    It's actually very popular on here. It ruins the movie for me.

    It doesn't ruin the movie for me, but it certainly detracts from the film in a way that a forgettable, but not offensive (think Newman's work in Spectre) score does not. For instance, the gun barrel music is easily the worst in the entire series.
  • BruceMurdockBruceMurdock OhioPosts: 133MI6 Agent
    More like the best! GE's Gunbarrel is easily my favorite. :)
    "No for me."
    "You forgot the first rule of Mass Media Elliot! Give the people what they want!!!"
    "I never miss..."
    "Time to face gravity!"
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,596MI6 Agent
    More like the best! GE's Gunbarrel is easily my favorite. :)

    What a horrible thing to say when John Barry scored 11 gun barrels. But it seems like the ones that are most popular are never Barry's, probably because Barry's don't stand out compared to the ones that break the mould.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    More like the best! GE's Gunbarrel is easily my favorite. :)

    What a horrible thing to say when John Barry scored 11 gun barrels. But it seems like the ones that are most popular are never Barry's, probably because Barry's don't stand out compared to the ones that break the mould.

    All of the 90s Gunbarrels are excellent. Better than Kamen's awful OTT mess.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    Matt S wrote:
    More like the best! GE's Gunbarrel is easily my favorite. :)

    What a horrible thing to say when John Barry scored 11 gun barrels.

    Yup! Much prefer GF, TB... etc
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,596MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    Matt S wrote:
    More like the best! GE's Gunbarrel is easily my favorite. :)

    What a horrible thing to say when John Barry scored 11 gun barrels.

    Yup! Much prefer GF, TB... etc

    We might be the only people who can tell all of them apart by the first chord. You can too, right? I think the similar structure of all of them makes people think they're not as special, but boy are they wrong.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • BruceMurdockBruceMurdock OhioPosts: 133MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    More like the best! GE's Gunbarrel is easily my favorite. :)

    What a horrible thing to say when John Barry scored 11 gun barrels. But it seems like the ones that are most popular are never Barry's, probably because Barry's don't stand out compared to the ones that break the mould.

    To be fair, GoldenEye's gunbarrel was my first and I just love those cool synth sounds Serra created by remixing Goldfinger's Gunbarrel. I just love it. ;)
    "No for me."
    "You forgot the first rule of Mass Media Elliot! Give the people what they want!!!"
    "I never miss..."
    "Time to face gravity!"
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,596MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    More like the best! GE's Gunbarrel is easily my favorite. :)

    What a horrible thing to say when John Barry scored 11 gun barrels. But it seems like the ones that are most popular are never Barry's, probably because Barry's don't stand out compared to the ones that break the mould.

    To be fair, GoldenEye's gunbarrel was my first and I just love those cool synth sounds Serra created by remixing Goldfinger's Gunbarrel. I just love it. ;)

    I think the idea of the GE gunbarrel is cool. It's the traditional gunbarrel done in Serra's electronic style, and it's a fantastic musical introduction to the rest of the film's music. But GF was my first. Whilst it's not my all time favourite, I see it as the gold standard of gunbarrel music. :D It's not a whole lot different from the FRWL gunbarrel music, but Barry basically polished it and perfected it for GF.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    Matt S wrote:
    But GF was my first. Whilst it's not my all time favourite, I see it as the gold standard of gunbarrel music. :D It's not a whole lot different from the FRWL gunbarrel music, but Barry basically polished it and perfected it for GF.

    {[] Can't disagree with that! And in answer to your earlier question: I haven't tried, but I'd think so.
  • Miles MesservyMiles Messervy Posts: 1,757MI6 Agent
    Everything about OHMSS's gun barrel is my favorite, from Barry's arrangement to GL's preposterous swagger.
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    Almost- the way it stops for the "Saltzman & Broccoli" credit doesn't work for me. (Musically, no problem)
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    ^ The music is brilliant but the editing and layout is a bit off. I don't like how the gunbarrel stops, he keeps moving and the blood washes him out.

    I do like how white the background is and how clear Lazenby is though. Speaking of which, Connery's (not Bob's?) looks like he's about to fall over with his crouching stance, LALD/TMWTGG Moore looks like he's shot way left. Glad they changed Moore's one.

    Dalton/Brosnan's ones look the best.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • walther p99walther p99 NJPosts: 3,416MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    but overall it's not as solid as the PTS music.

    You're right, IMO the PTS music is brilliant and iconic. It's a very good rendition of the Bond theme.
    I also agree, though most of Serra's score is atrocious. His style music fit the PTS perfectly and is a fantastic track and I think a lot of his music flows really well with Goldeneye's cold and dark atmosphere where I couldn't imagine anyone else doing it better. That's not to say its a brilliant score I just think if that style music would've worked in any Bond film it would be Goldeneye. That said, I most often see Serra's gunbarrel music citied as the favorite of the series out of everybody's which is interesting.
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