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Re: Blofeld Behind Everything Actually Helps Skyfall Make Some Sense

I thought you might be  ajb007/lol

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The Joy Of 6

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Re: Blofeld Behind Everything Actually Helps Skyfall Make Some Sense

Shatterfang wrote:

Silva wasn't working for Blofeld. All that happened was his DNA was on the ring, so he most likely just shook hands with Sciarra after doing a gun or drug trade with him. Furthermore Quantum wasn't a subsection of Spectre, but rather Mr. White was a double agent working for Spectre. Silva didn't need Spectre to hack into Mi6 because Mi6 hacked itself, Q put the flash drive in like Silva was planning on. you don't need some elaborate scheme when the problem falls on carelessness, and if you think that's unrealistic, the NSA does stupid stuff like that all the time. I see Blofeld's "it was all me" as just showmanship and trying to get into BOnd's head. He wasn't behind Vesper or Mathis or M's death, those were just happy accidents, and being a sociopath Blofeld took credit for them.  To his credit, he was lurking behind the curtains during all of this, just didn't do anything to lead to the things he claims.

Thank you for putting some logic behind spectre

"Never let them see you bleed."

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Re: Blofeld Behind Everything Actually Helps Skyfall Make Some Sense

MajorBoothroyd wrote:
Shatterfang wrote:

Silva wasn't working for Blofeld. All that happened was his DNA was on the ring, so he most likely just shook hands with Sciarra after doing a gun or drug trade with him. Furthermore Quantum wasn't a subsection of Spectre, but rather Mr. White was a double agent working for Spectre. Silva didn't need Spectre to hack into Mi6 because Mi6 hacked itself, Q put the flash drive in like Silva was planning on. you don't need some elaborate scheme when the problem falls on carelessness, and if you think that's unrealistic, the NSA does stupid stuff like that all the time. I see Blofeld's "it was all me" as just showmanship and trying to get into BOnd's head. He wasn't behind Vesper or Mathis or M's death, those were just happy accidents, and being a sociopath Blofeld took credit for them.  To his credit, he was lurking behind the curtains during all of this, just didn't do anything to lead to the things he claims.

Thank you for putting some logic behind spectre

ajb007/martini  ajb007/martini  ajb007/martini  ajb007/martini  ajb007/martini  ajb007/martini

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Re: Blofeld Behind Everything Actually Helps Skyfall Make Some Sense

Gassy Man wrote:

For instance, Skyfall required an enormous suspension of disbelief to believe that Silva could pull off all the machinations of his scheme, some of which appeared to rely on completely random events.  But not if Blofeld was really calling the shots with some earlier version of Nine Eyes, watching every move MI6 was making and giving Silva updates in real time.  In the film, we're led to believe that Silva is essentially already doing this.  But Spectre suggests -- and that's the problem, as it only just suggests -- that Blofeld is really the one behind it all.
.

Ugh.

Silva is a cyber terrorist. Right at the beginning of the film, the explosion within MI6 establishes Silva as a master hacker, a a cyber terrorist. So straight away we know he has breached MI6. And we know a little later that he is targeting M. So it has been something that he has planned out. Having been able to infiltrate MI6 electronically, it isn't a stretch to imagine that he also hacked in again, which gave him intel on where their new HQs are - underground.  He knew he'd get caught eventually so, knowing their new digs, he booby trapped his laptop, knowing that Q would try gain access to it in their new HQs. Remember he was "damned good" operative, so he knows the inner workings of MI6, as well as being as great as Bond.

He knew every move M was making because he was a master hacker. We're led to believe Silva is doing it because he actually is doing it. Nine Eyes is a poorly executed concept that didn't have any feet during the events of Skyfall. And it didn't need to, because it makes sense - it's all in the film.

Film: Tomorrow Never Dies | Girl: Teresa di Vicenzo | Villain: Max Zorin | Car: Aston Martin Volante | Novel: You Only Live Twice | Bond: Sir Sean Connery

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Re: Blofeld Behind Everything Actually Helps Skyfall Make Some Sense

MajorBoothroyd wrote:
Shatterfang wrote:

Silva wasn't working for Blofeld. All that happened was his DNA was on the ring, so he most likely just shook hands with Sciarra after doing a gun or drug trade with him. Furthermore Quantum wasn't a subsection of Spectre, but rather Mr. White was a double agent working for Spectre. Silva didn't need Spectre to hack into Mi6 because Mi6 hacked itself, Q put the flash drive in like Silva was planning on. you don't need some elaborate scheme when the problem falls on carelessness, and if you think that's unrealistic, the NSA does stupid stuff like that all the time. I see Blofeld's "it was all me" as just showmanship and trying to get into BOnd's head. He wasn't behind Vesper or Mathis or M's death, those were just happy accidents, and being a sociopath Blofeld took credit for them.  To his credit, he was lurking behind the curtains during all of this, just didn't do anything to lead to the things he claims.

Thank you for putting some logic behind spectre

Actually, Sam Medes confirmed that it wasn't fingerprints or DNA on the ring. The ring was made from a rare metal from the meteorite in the lair, and ale Chiffre, Greene and Silva all had this metal traces found during their autopsy. So, it suggests all three have worn a Spectre ring at some point.

The thing about how Silva knew exactly what would happen has never bothered me though, because I have a different belief. He knew that, from his time working in MI6, that they would move to the bunker in times like in SF (presuming in this timeline it's the main backup). Therefore, he could easily plan a basic escape from this location. Everything else in his plan, such as the explosives, is all just one of the plans. I presumed he had several plans and things set up in case of different things, such as explosives planted in places he never used.

1.LTK  2.AVTAK  3.OP  4.FYEO  5.TND  6.LALD  7.GE  8.GF  9.TSWLM  10.SPECTRE  11.SF  12.MR 13.YOLT  14.TLD  15.CR (06)  16.TMWTGG  17.TB  18.FRWL  19.TWINE  20.OHMSS  21.DAF  22.DAD  23.QoS  24.NSNA  25.DN  26.CR (67)

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Re: Blofeld Behind Everything Actually Helps Skyfall Make Some Sense

MilleniumForce wrote:

Actually, Sam Medes confirmed that it wasn't fingerprints or DNA on the ring. The ring was made from a rare metal from the meteorite in the lair, and ale Chiffre, Greene and Silva all had this metal traces found during their autopsy. So, it suggests all three have worn a Spectre ring at some point.

Or one of those Quantum pin badges (when Quantum is heavily implied to be the sibling or even parent syndicate to SPECTRE).

With the outrageous egos of both Silva and Blofeld, I don't get the impression that Silva would be a serving henchman but it would seem fairly plausible that Silva would deem the Quantum/SPECTRE group as benefactors to help with his hacking, funding and procurement of those ex-military mooks that turned up in the final battle, etc. However Blofeld sneeringly stating he's the author of all of Bond's pain could quite easily be BS to a certain extent, at least where Vesper Lynd is concerned (when narcissistic psychopaths like Blofeld are prone to sprouting out lies and half-truths to get their way and emotionally hurt victims).

Other plot holes/contrivances: that Tunisian SPECTRE complex more or less inexplicably blowing up entirely (on the record as the biggest pyrotechnic explosion in a film production) when only a few fuel pipes got burst could be down to the escaping Blofeld pressing a button and blowing up a big fuel bomb to cover his tracks and hoping to catch Bond in the blast (the place could've been a fuel bomb production factory for SPECTRE's terror operations, otherwise why would a control centre and server farms spontaneously combust after a brief fuel fire outside?).

'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...'

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Re: Blofeld Behind Everything Actually Helps Skyfall Make Some Sense

Its interesting to see someone who likes the idea of Blofeld being behind everything. Every opinion I've heard or read since the film came out has been massively opposed to it. Particularly the notion of Silva's involvement with Spectre.

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Re: Blofeld Behind Everything Actually Helps Skyfall Make Some Sense

walther p99 wrote:

Its interesting to see someone who likes the idea of Blofeld being behind everything. Every opinion I've heard or read since the film came out has been massively opposed to it. Particularly the notion of Silva's involvement with Spectre.

I think Blofeld, at best, was indirectly involved with Craig Bond's earlier exploits (like Gettler being a loyal associate of his, etc, but Mr. White was senior to Blofeld at the time) and grew fully aware of his step brother by the time of Skyfall (and may have also contracted Silva for software incorporated into the Nine Eyes project). And Blofeld may have secretly thanked Bond for deposing and exposing his rivals who called themselves Quantum.  ajb007/wink

'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...'

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Re: Blofeld Behind Everything Actually Helps Skyfall Make Some Sense

Same here. Its explain how Silva was able to have an island hideout and all those armed goons as well as a freaking helicopter! It was supplied to him by SPECTRE.

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Re: Blofeld Behind Everything Actually Helps Skyfall Make Some Sense

Also if anyone has played the game Blood Stone, the identity of the secret contact that a main character made a deal with makes sense if it actually is Blofeld. I do consider that game canon, taking place in between QoS and Skyfall.

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Re: Blofeld Behind Everything Actually Helps Skyfall Make Some Sense

I had no problem with the connection. They did this in the Connery timeline. Its easy to see how Silva got help from SPECTRE going after M.

Mr. Big and Goldfinger worked for SMERSH in the books.

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Re: Blofeld Behind Everything Actually Helps Skyfall Make Some Sense

MarcAngeDraco wrote:
Gassy Man wrote:

For instance, Skyfall required an enormous suspension of disbelief to believe that Silva could pull off all the machinations of his scheme, some of which appeared to rely on completely random events.  But not if Blofeld was really calling the shots with some earlier version of Nine Eyes, watching every move MI6 was making and giving Silva updates in real time.  In the film, we're led to believe that Silva is essentially already doing this.  But Spectre suggests -- and that's the problem, as it only just suggests -- that Blofeld is really the one behind it all.
.

Ugh.

Silva is a cyber terrorist. Right at the beginning of the film, the explosion within MI6 establishes Silva as a master hacker, a a cyber terrorist. So straight away we know he has breached MI6. And we know a little later that he is targeting M. So it has been something that he has planned out. Having been able to infiltrate MI6 electronically, it isn't a stretch to imagine that he also hacked in again, which gave him intel on where their new HQs are - underground.  He knew he'd get caught eventually so, knowing their new digs, he booby trapped his laptop, knowing that Q would try gain access to it in their new HQs. Remember he was "damned good" operative, so he knows the inner workings of MI6, as well as being as great as Bond.

He knew every move M was making because he was a master hacker. We're led to believe Silva is doing it because he actually is doing it. Nine Eyes is a poorly executed concept that didn't have any feet during the events of Skyfall. And it didn't need to, because it makes sense - it's all in the film.

Though I see the poster identified as now banned, this still seems to deserve an answer.

If what was written is true, then why not hack the laptop at the beginning to get the information from the hard drive?  Why did someone have to physically steal it?  Why have to attack M at the hearing when he could just as easily have done to her what he did to MI:6 headquarters and taken her out that way?  If we're to believe that Silva is simply the world's greatest computer hacker, he shouldn't have had to resort to any physical confrontation to achieve his goals.  He takes the long way around instead.

But it does make sense if Blofeld is pulling the strings.  After all, Blofeld wants Nine Eyes, or least a greater sphere of control.  Silva may have wanted revenge, and Blofeld may well have allowed a degree of this, but not if it meant destroying MI:6 completely or M immediately.   

Silva may have had the capacity, but Blofeld could have kept him on a quite short leash.

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Re: Blofeld Behind Everything Actually Helps Skyfall Make Some Sense

Skyfall doesn't make any sense. It never will no matter how many excuses are made.

Dalton Rulez™

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Re: Blofeld Behind Everything Actually Helps Skyfall Make Some Sense

I think we may forget how little sense some of the older movies made.

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Re: Blofeld Behind Everything Actually Helps Skyfall Make Some Sense

Number24 wrote:

I think we may forget how little sense some of the older movies made.


True but they didn't take themselves seriously and were full of self-irony. SF is a pretentious trash and no fun either.
I admit though it looks good.

Dalton Rulez™

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Re: Blofeld Behind Everything Actually Helps Skyfall Make Some Sense

BondJasonBond006 wrote:
Number24 wrote:

I think we may forget how little sense some of the older movies made.


True but they didn't take themselves seriously and were full of self-irony. SF is a pretentious trash and no fun either.
I admit though it looks good.

Well, the washed out grey for the London scenes doesn't really look that good.
Honestly, the best part (visually and otherwise) were the Shanghai scenes.
The other parts of the film aren't worthy in my book.
CGI looks fake af in the office explosion.

"...I have the oddest feeling we will be meeting again sometime..."
-Roger Moore's James Bond. RIP.
I have a YouTube channel on all things Bond (amongst other things, coming soon™).
The name's Bond and Beyond. It's currently on hold, though.

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Re: Blofeld Behind Everything Actually Helps Skyfall Make Some Sense

Dirty Punker wrote:
BondJasonBond006 wrote:
Number24 wrote:

I think we may forget how little sense some of the older movies made.


True but they didn't take themselves seriously and were full of self-irony. SF is a pretentious trash and no fun either.
I admit though it looks good.

Well, the washed out grey for the London scenes doesn't really look that good.
Honestly, the best part (visually and otherwise) were the Shanghai scenes.
The other parts of the film aren't worthy in my book.
CGI looks fake af in the office explosion.

Do you mean the second unit establishing shots of Shanghai or the stuff done in the UK? Some of the shots looked good, but I found it distracting that Daniel Craig never went to China to film.

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Re: Blofeld Behind Everything Actually Helps Skyfall Make Some Sense

BondJasonBond006 wrote:
Number24 wrote:

I think we may forget how little sense some of the older movies made.


True but they didn't take themselves seriously and were full of self-irony. SF is a pretentious trash and no fun either.
I admit though it looks good.

I don't even think it looks good (the tints, the tints I tell you). True,  earlier films are full of holes, but have a charm that compensates. Also expectations have changed and have raised the bar considerably. I knew I was in trouble when I looked at my watch during the PTS and thought 'jeez Loiuse this is going on a bit'

Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.

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Re: Blofeld Behind Everything Actually Helps Skyfall Make Some Sense

Matt S wrote:
Dirty Punker wrote:
BondJasonBond006 wrote:

True but they didn't take themselves seriously and were full of self-irony. SF is a pretentious trash and no fun either.
I admit though it looks good.

Well, the washed out grey for the London scenes doesn't really look that good.
Honestly, the best part (visually and otherwise) were the Shanghai scenes.
The other parts of the film aren't worthy in my book.
CGI looks fake af in the office explosion.

Do you mean the second unit establishing shots of Shanghai or the stuff done in the UK? Some of the shots looked good, but I found it distracting that Daniel Craig never went to China to film.

Well, when I first saw the film, I had no knowledge wether or not Craig went to China or not, so it wasn't that distracting.
Honestly, if someone doesn't know about it, they wouldn't exactly notice.
The second unit establishing shots were very nice, I have no problem with them.
What I do have a problem with is Newman blowing up my TV speakers when it cuts from "brave new world" to Shanghai.
The stuff that was done in the UK looked fake. The subway scenes etc. were good.

"...I have the oddest feeling we will be meeting again sometime..."
-Roger Moore's James Bond. RIP.
I have a YouTube channel on all things Bond (amongst other things, coming soon™).
The name's Bond and Beyond. It's currently on hold, though.

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Re: Blofeld Behind Everything Actually Helps Skyfall Make Some Sense

one may not know unless told, but the classic films made much better use of the exotic location shots, eg Man With The Golden Gun, it was part of the appeal of the films

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Re: Blofeld Behind Everything Actually Helps Skyfall Make Some Sense

Dirty Punker wrote:
Matt S wrote:
Dirty Punker wrote:

Well, the washed out grey for the London scenes doesn't really look that good.
Honestly, the best part (visually and otherwise) were the Shanghai scenes.
The other parts of the film aren't worthy in my book.
CGI looks fake af in the office explosion.

Do you mean the second unit establishing shots of Shanghai or the stuff done in the UK? Some of the shots looked good, but I found it distracting that Daniel Craig never went to China to film.

Well, when I first saw the film, I had no knowledge wether or not Craig went to China or not, so it wasn't that distracting.
Honestly, if someone doesn't know about it, they wouldn't exactly notice.
The second unit establishing shots were very nice, I have no problem with them.
What I do have a problem with is Newman blowing up my TV speakers when it cuts from "brave new world" to Shanghai.
The stuff that was done in the UK looked fake. The subway scenes etc. were good.

Having been to China, I can tell you that the scene does stand out more as being somewhere else. 

That said, SF's problems can't really be compared to the older films.  With rare exception, their "plot holes" were not plot holes at all but issues that grew out of the plot or character.  Sure, it would have been easier to just kill Bond, but that wasn't in the nature of the villain.  Dr. No, for instance, finally concedes it would be better to turn Bond.  Goldfinger wants to humiliate Bond because he can't be the man -- that's his way of psychologically making up for his own deficiencies.  Largo is following orders and brings in an assassin who's sense of empowerment resides in her first dominating the man she is going to kill.

In SF, Silva the character doesn't make a lot of sense unless you accept that he is either insane or taking orders offscreen that we are not privy to.  He falls into the trap of a lot of contemporary films, which is making the villain far more clever than he really is.  In this case, like the Joker in the Batman films he emulates, he has to have such complex machinations that they defy the logic of the story.  At least in Batman, the Joker's grand scheme was to tear everyone down by illustrating just how awful people really are, subverting a sense of right and wrong while ironically also in his demented way suggesting that chao isn't random. 

With Silva, he's just out for simple revenge, and yet he takes an absurdly long way around to do it.  And since he's supposed to be a computer genius, his actions result in machinations that are not only implausible but seem to be work against the definition of his character as a computer genius.  Exactly why is a gun battle necessary for someone who is fully capable of wrecking others from a keyboard? 

He has no angst against Bond -- at least none developed in the script. If anything, he should see Bond as a kindred spirit.  Taking M down would have been far more effective if he'd just done it with information, revealing her complicity in top secret operations, destroying her finances, or even framing her for crimes she didn't commit.  But instead he has to resort to standard villain tactics.  All that works against him being the character he purports to be.

That is, unless someone else is directing Silva.  Then, the fact that Silva can't just do what he wants to gets resolved easily.  And when you think about it, Blofeld in Spectre needs a reason for the intelligence agencies to be combined and unified under some technological marvel that he can control.  Now, Silva's actions make sense.  His physical battles show that MI:6 is still vulnerable to military threats, but at the same time, its getting hacked shows the need for greater cybersecurity and oversight.  Nine Eyes comes along and promises to do both. Silva becomes a pawn, guided by Blofeld, that makes it all possible, with the added benefit of getting rid of M, at least until a replacement is brought in who is just as capable.  Perhaps the biggest misstep of the plan was not in Silva's inability to outright dispatch the original M but failure to get the successor.