Has the use of the Col. Sun torture scene in Spectre set a precedent?
Silhouette Man
The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,689MI6 Agent
Obviously the use of the torture scene and the verbatim dialogue was a big step forward in the use of the Continuation Bond novels in the official Bond film series. From reading an article in MI6 Confidential magazine I understand that the use of the Colonel Sun torture scene in Spectre was out of desperation more than anything as they couldn't make the scene effective enough, so they decided to go back to the books again. Happily, the Kingsley Amis Estate even got a mention in the credits as well as (presumably) some remuneration for the use of the torture scene. Perhaps, then, they will only use the Continuations when they are caught between a rock and a hard place in the writing of their screenplay?
So, what do we think? Will there be more overt (as opposed to covert) use of the Continuation Bond novels in the future of the James Bond films series or not? Has the use of the Colonel Sun torture scene in Spectre (2015) set a precedent for future Bond films?
Will they continue to strip mine Colonel Sun or will they move on to the John Gardner novels and beyond? It has been argued by zencat of The Book Bond blog (and others) that the Bond films have already been mining the Continuation Bonds for years, only in a more covert sense.
I personally welcome more use of the continuation novels in the Bond films, along with the use of unmined original Fleming material. Other franchises don't seem to have any problem in using the equivalent of the Bond continuation novels - see the use of the villain Bane in the Batman film The Dark Knight Rises (2012). Bane was a character who did not come from the original 1930s or 1940s Batman comics but only came along in the comic Batman: Vengeance of Bane #1 (January 1993).
So why don't Eon use the continuation novels more?
Will they just use Colonel Sun in the future as it was published fifty years ago (in March 2018) as it is set in the Fleming timeline more rigidly than what came after (Gardner, Benson and Deaver)? It is also as close to official canon as it is possible to get for a continuation Bond novel.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this fascinating subject.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Comments
nice to know they decided to use some authentic source material, I guess after they ran out of ideas from Goldmember. But they've done plenty of films before with zero reference to the source material, and had no creative issue with that. Some of those films with zero Fleming content stunk, yet were much more financially successful than those which did have Fleming content. So I don't share your optimism. I'm frankly surprised they considered opening a book for inspiration at all.
I see conspicuous use of Gardner's concepts throuthout A View to a Kill, as well as specific scenes in the Living Daylights and Die Another Day, but again vague and differentiated enough that a lawyer could argue coincidence. So they have borrowed Gardner's ideas when its occurred to them. Really though, there is a long list of unadapted Fleming scenes with cinematic potential they could/should be doing first, and they already own those rights.
comic book digression - in all these superhero franchises they have this choice to make, usually adapting the classic origin for the first film, then moving on to more recent storylines for the sequels. The more recent storylines are more familiar to modern readers, thus may be more marketable. for Captain America, only the first film was based on Simon & Kirby's 1941 comics. The Winter Soldier and Civil War were both storylines from the last twenty years.
Actually, even in Batman Begins, Ra's as Ghul was a relatively recent character, from 1971 or so ... I know, ancient history to many of you here, but long after series creator Bob Kane had retired.
But I don't think that's really the equivalent to Bond continuation novels. All these superhero franchises are corporate owned properties, every last issue ever published, and they can film whatever storylines they want. I think the situation with the Bond continuation authors is quite different, and EON have avoided any legal/financial obligations to Bond authors not named Fleming.
So in summary, they've borrowed ideas uncredited before and probably will do so again. Giving Amis credit I think only happened because in this case they used his specific dialog.
At the end of the last Blofeld/Bond poker game, James was again losing - and this time he threw in his Omega. Blofeld called his bluff, but then BOOM! Watch bomb. James and Madeleine make their getaway.
Not heard of this before. Was this the actual scene beforehand?
The torture scene replaced the scene I described. It was part of the final shooting script, but they apparently changed it between that and filming.
In that case, I'm glad that they did change it.
Any idea as to why they replaced it? The scene used was a pale imitation of the one in Colonel Sun . The scene that you describe seems vastly superior to me.