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Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

Number24 wrote:

The so-called Norway+ is being talked about as a solution. The Norwegian government and business community doesn't want that to happen. Our deal With the EU is a fragile thing and we don't want Britain to start rocking the boat.


The Norway model has been offered to the UK, but has been refused.
Uk did not want to pay and did not want to obey to EU legistlative

Last edited by Higgins (14th Mar 2019 13:05)

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

277

Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

Chriscoop wrote:

Brexit ; debacle, crisis, badly prepared, mess! Whatever you thought you knew in 2016 has been roundly exposed. The UK has one fundamental problem here, the nation voted to leave, but the house of commons is filled with mps the majority of which don't want to leave. Free votes on all matters Brexit should have been allowed from the start. How is whipping your party votes and voting the way your party wants (even if you disagree) in any way democratic? So far only a few mps have been honest enough to vote in line with their constituents or in line with their own beliefs.
I said before that before the last vote on the withdrawal agreement  mps should have been ordered back to their surgeries to hold a week long consultation with the people of their constituencies to garner the way they expected their elected representative to vote. This matter shouldn't ever have been a party political issue.... Ever.
Second referendum? No way. We voted once and the result was the result, we also voted to elect politicians to make good on the results. What has ensued is chaos and a stark insight into a broken democratic process.
As Cromwell said "when the members of this house stopped truly and faithfully representing the peoples of this great nation, it's time to know you have no place in this house. Men of no faith who lay with whores, count their gold and good fortune. You do not truly represent the people begone"

Well, nobody in their right mind would dispute, that the Brexit vote was based on blatant lies, misinformation, social media propaganda and russian interfering.
So, repeating on and on, how binding the Brexit vote is, bears some doubts and the outrage I can't really take seriously.
Truth is, that the tories used the Brexit referendum for their perceived own benefit - well that backfired badly for them.

Matter of fact is, that nobody in the UK parliament is willing to execute a hard Brexit - no matter how ill-informed the vote was.
So even members of the tories indirectly know, that most of what has been said during the campaining was unrealistic and would lead to disaster. And they came slowly to their senses and are trapped in their own lies.

I find it ironic, that the conservative party put the execution of the Brexit vote into the hands of someone, who was a remainer all the time. Additionally, the leader of the opposition party is a Brexiteer at heart.

It's really like letting a wild wolf take care of your chicken stable.

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

278

Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

Serious question, Chris:

Now that the Brexiteers have (mildly put) badly disappointed in delivering what you have been voting for, what is your line of action for the maybe very soon upcoming elections: Are you now voting Labour?  ajb007/wink

Another question: If we imagine for a second, that a hard Brexit would be done on 29th March, what do you suggest will happen on the irish border?
Just an example: During the BSE crisis in 2015, british meat was not allowed to be sold in the EU.
British farmers used Ireland to traffic their meat into the EU by a large degree. That will certainly not happen again.

Last edited by Higgins (14th Mar 2019 14:11)

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

279

Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

The EU is the land of milk and honey, the UK will have
Cheap food and cars along with full employment   ajb007/cheers
I for one can't wait  next we just need to get rid of
Scotland.  ajb007/tongue I think with all that short bread and
Whisky, they're holding the rest of us back.
On an unrelated matter, how many generations can I
go back to get a German passport  ?  ajb007/biggrin

"Let his death be a particularly unpleasant and humiliating one."

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Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

Thunderpussy wrote:

The EU is the land of milk and honey, the UK will have
Cheap food and cars along with full employment   ajb007/cheers
I for one can't wait  next we just need to get rid of
Scotland.  ajb007/tongue I think with all that short bread and
Whisky, they're holding the rest of us back.
On an unrelated matter, how many generations can I
go back to get a German passport  ?  ajb007/biggrin

North Carolina would love to have you since you are white.

I've always wanted to have Christmas in Turkey

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Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

My ancestors  knew what they were doing, leaving Germany an
Industrial  powerhouse,  to move to an island which has only one
National resource,  The Potato  !  ajb007/biggrin ........ although we do make
Lovely chips  ajb007/wink

"Let his death be a particularly unpleasant and humiliating one."

282

Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

As an outsider (Yank) looking in, it seems like somebody over there in the UK parliament needs to fall on their sword and just cancel the whole Brexit.  It'd end his/her political career but it'd at least put an end to the question and start a process for recovery for the UK and the EU.  That person would be reviled for several years but would be looked upon favorably in hindsight.

Current rankings:
OHMSS>FRWL>CR>TSWLM>YOLT>MR>TLD>SF>GE>OP>DN>FYEO>
TWINE>TND>QOS>TB>TMWTGG>GF>LALD>SP>DAF>LTK>AVTAK>DAD
Bond rankings: Lazenby>Moore>Connery>Craig>Dalton>Brosnan

283

Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

https://youtu.be/L9uj2GY1MHQ

"Let his death be a particularly unpleasant and humiliating one."

284

Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

Gymkata wrote:

As an outsider (Yank) looking in, it seems like somebody over there in the UK parliament needs to fall on their sword and just cancel the whole Brexit.  It'd end his/her political career but it'd at least put an end to the question and start a process for recovery for the UK and the EU.  That person would be reviled for several years but would be looked upon favorably in hindsight.


Because like it or loathe it, the British public voted out.  Democracy is dead if someone cancelled it.

..................http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a77/darkcrown_1969/Asp9mmSIG-1-2.jpg...............

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Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

Gymkata wrote:

As an outsider (Yank) looking in, it seems like somebody over there in the UK parliament needs to fall on their sword and just cancel the whole Brexit.  It'd end his/her political career but it'd at least put an end to the question and start a process for recovery for the UK and the EU.  That person would be reviled for several years but would be looked upon favorably in hindsight.


You have no idea, how stubborn our islander neighbors are.

They‘d rather lose Scotland and Ireland then admitting that the referendum was a mistake.

Do you know the Monty Python scene with the black knight?
Should give you an idea  ajb007/lol

Last edited by Higgins (14th Mar 2019 15:52)

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

286

Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

Asp9mm wrote:

Because like it or loathe it, the British public voted out.  Democracy is dead if someone cancelled it.

Ah, now I get it why Mrs. May‘s deal is voted about next week for the 3rd time, because everybody is respecting a democratic vote  ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

287

Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

Higgins wrote:
Gymkata wrote:

As an outsider (Yank) looking in, it seems like somebody over there in the UK parliament needs to fall on their sword and just cancel the whole Brexit.  It'd end his/her political career but it'd at least put an end to the question and start a process for recovery for the UK and the EU.  That person would be reviled for several years but would be looked upon favorably in hindsight.


You have no idea, how stubborn our islander neighbors are.

They‘d rather lose Scotland and Ireland then admitting that the referendum was a mistake.

Do you know the Monty Python scene with the black knight?
Should give you an idea  ajb007/lol

You know very well how stubborn, magoifan  ajb007/biggrin


https://i.postimg.cc/56577PgJ/53706706-10155881270225843-1727613701046927360-n.jpg


ajb007/biggrin  ajb007/tongue  ajb007/shifty

***One day at a time***

288

Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

Chriscoop wrote:

Brexit ; debacle, crisis, badly prepared, mess! Whatever you thought you knew in 2016 has been roundly exposed. The UK has one fundamental problem here, the nation voted to leave, but the house of commons is filled with mps the majority of which don't want to leave. Free votes on all matters Brexit should have been allowed from the start. How is whipping your party votes and voting the way your party wants (even if you disagree) in any way democratic? So far only a few mps have been honest enough to vote in line with their constituents or in line with their own beliefs.
I said before that before the last vote on the withdrawal agreement  mps should have been ordered back to their surgeries to hold a week long consultation with the people of their constituencies to garner the way they expected their elected representative to vote. This matter shouldn't ever have been a party political issue.... Ever.
Second referendum? No way. We voted once and the result was the result, we also voted to elect politicians to make good on the results. What has ensued is chaos and a stark insight into a broken democratic process.
As Cromwell said "when the members of this house stopped truly and faithfully representing the peoples of this great nation, it's time to know you have no place in this house. Men of no faith who lay with whores, count their gold and good fortune. You do not truly represent the people begone"

Oliver Cromwell was the leader of a bloody revolution and some see him as a dictator. Not that I think that's what you want, but I think it needs to be said.
I actually feel sorry for Theresa May. She has taken upon herself a responsiblilty no-one wants. Her job is nearly impossible and no matter what she does a large part of the population will dislike her. She knows it and she took the job anyway.

289

Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

danjaq_0ff wrote:
Higgins wrote:
Gymkata wrote:

As an outsider (Yank) looking in, it seems like somebody over there in the UK parliament needs to fall on their sword and just cancel the whole Brexit.  It'd end his/her political career but it'd at least put an end to the question and start a process for recovery for the UK and the EU.  That person would be reviled for several years but would be looked upon favorably in hindsight.


You have no idea, how stubborn our islander neighbors are.

They‘d rather lose Scotland and Ireland then admitting that the referendum was a mistake.

Do you know the Monty Python scene with the black knight?
Should give you an idea  ajb007/lol



You know very well how stubborn, magoifan  ajb007/biggrin


https://i.postimg.cc/56577PgJ/53706706-10155881270225843-1727613701046927360-n.jpg


ajb007/biggrin  ajb007/tongue  ajb007/shifty

Good to seeing you knowing about your rights- equally about your duties -to vote  ajb007/embarrassed

And article 61 magna carta sounds different.

To put it quite simply, there is no Article 61 of Magna Carta and rebellion is unlawful. There is no smoking constitutional gun that means you don’t have to pay taxes or fines or obey the law. There is, in fact, only one way to lawfully rebel and that is to be on the winning side so you’re the one who decides what is and isn’t lawful.

Last edited by Higgins (14th Mar 2019 22:45)

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

290

Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

As an American, I can only thank the UK for, temporarily at least, assuming the role of most clueless and dysfunctional government, which the US has played for the better part of the last three years.  I'm sure we'll take it back in due course, but for now our shoulders are less sore.

FWIW, my more serious view is that the original referendum was a horrible idea, irrespective of outcome.  Isn't the whole premise of a representative democracy to elect people specifically to take important policy positions, presumably with the benefit of a lot more information and research than the average citizen can reasonably be expected to have?

Hilly...you old devil!

291

Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

https://youtu.be/jxtB8f4WcIw
Henning Wehn on Brexit and  why not a best of seven  ajb007/lol

"Let his death be a particularly unpleasant and humiliating one."

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Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

Higgins wrote:

Serious question, Chris:

Now that the Brexiteers have (mildly put) badly disappointed in delivering what you have been voting for, what is your line of action for the maybe very soon upcoming elections: Are you now voting Labour?  ajb007/wink

Another question: If we imagine for a second, that a hard Brexit would be done on 29th March, what do you suggest will happen on the irish border?
Just an example: During the BSE crisis in 2015, british meat was not allowed to be sold in the EU.
British farmers used Ireland to traffic their meat into the EU by a large degree. That will certainly not happen again.

Well, in all seriousness, I've never divulged which way I voted, it is true that I am an historic Conservative supporter as has been most my family, I believe in a conservatively governed country. I am more right of middle as opposed to far right or even moderately right. I won't be voting for the current Labour set up.
The Irish border, this is a major issue for both sides, as ireland has been a way for cheaper pork and beef to enter into the UK also, undercutting out own farmers and driving down the value of our own products. Its also not known if these products have traveled illegal distances as livestock or have been slaughtered and prepared according to EU regulations. The answer is simply lies along the same path as the Swiss border and the norwegian/Swedish border. The whole Irish border issue is from the EU perspective a massive misdirection. My own view would be that should we leave the EU with no deal in place the UK does nothing on the Irish border, if the EU wants to protect itself then it can control the border. I would also be asking that the Irish government step up its repayments of the bail out loan the UK gave it to stop it going bankrupt.
My point of view has always been measured by what I read and take due diligence to research, the EU has done and does do a lot of good, but it also has massive failings. I don't think it's good for either party to leave without a deal, it's just a shame everyone has got caught up with the withdrawal agreement when the real negotiations have yet to begin.

It was either that.....or the priesthood

293

Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

Number24 wrote:
Chriscoop wrote:

Brexit ; debacle, crisis, badly prepared, mess! Whatever you thought you knew in 2016 has been roundly exposed. The UK has one fundamental problem here, the nation voted to leave, but the house of commons is filled with mps the majority of which don't want to leave. Free votes on all matters Brexit should have been allowed from the start. How is whipping your party votes and voting the way your party wants (even if you disagree) in any way democratic? So far only a few mps have been honest enough to vote in line with their constituents or in line with their own beliefs.
I said before that before the last vote on the withdrawal agreement  mps should have been ordered back to their surgeries to hold a week long consultation with the people of their constituencies to garner the way they expected their elected representative to vote. This matter shouldn't ever have been a party political issue.... Ever.
Second referendum? No way. We voted once and the result was the result, we also voted to elect politicians to make good on the results. What has ensued is chaos and a stark insight into a broken democratic process.
As Cromwell said "when the members of this house stopped truly and faithfully representing the peoples of this great nation, it's time to know you have no place in this house. Men of no faith who lay with whores, count their gold and good fortune. You do not truly represent the people begone"

Oliver Cromwell was the leader of a bloody revolution and some see him as a dictator. Not that I think that's what you want, but I think it needs to be said.
I actually feel sorry for Theresa May. She has taken upon herself a responsiblilty no-one wants. Her job is nearly impossible and no matter what she does a large part of the population will dislike her. She knows it and she took the job anyway.

Depends which history books you read, most of Cromwells history was rewritten by Charles II stooges. He was never a dictator, nor did he abolish Christmas. If you remove the religious aspects which unfortunately dictated so much of history, he achieved a lot, great prosperity for his nation, the world's first professional and trained armed force, hospitals and universities were built for the use of all and he close down parliament by using the army to effect a majority when Parliament continued to use its position for its members own profits and not for the good of the people.
He was by no means faultless, his treatment of the Irish was apalling as was his routing of the Scots. But then they did keep invading Newcastle (Sorry Barbel)
He also gave Charles the first many opportunities to climb down and continue his kingship, but matters were forced when the King of England tried to raise a foreign army to make war on his own people to make his power absolute. The Kings allowance of the churches and prayers becoming more catholic in nature (owing to his Catholic wife) did not help matters. His role of Lord Protector was more or less forced upon him in many respects.

Last edited by Chriscoop (14th Mar 2019 19:37)

It was either that.....or the priesthood

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Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

Hence the "some"  ajb007/smile

Norway pays the EU in money and accepting many EU laws and regulations for the open border to Sweden. I'm not sure many Brexiters will accept that.

295

Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

As a Brexiteer,  I'd like to say I accept the
Norway/Sweden  border  ajb007/lol

"Let his death be a particularly unpleasant and humiliating one."

296

Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

Number24 wrote:

Hence the "some"  ajb007/smile

Norway pays the EU in money and accepting many EU laws and regulations for the open border to Sweden. I'm not sure many Brexiters will accept that.

Many brexiteers may have to swallow a bit more than they think. At this stage the choices are becoming less.
Let's just look at Greece, they voted to leave the EU, and 62% of those who voted did vote to leave the EU! Still there aren't they!
The "some" was duly noted  ajb007/martini

It was either that.....or the priesthood

297

Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

Greece would og bankrupt without the EU.

298

Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

Thunderpussy wrote:

As a Brexiteer,  I'd like to say I accept the
Norway/Sweden  border  ajb007/lol

ajb007/smile
As a Brexiteer in NI, what's your view on the border issue?

It was either that.....or the priesthood

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Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

The border was never an issue and if we go back to
Bombing and killing each other, that's our problem
No one  elses. ajb007/crap  I honestly can't see it, people are
Sick and tired of all terrorists. In fact I think it was
Shameful of the remainers  to try and use it as a
Weapon.

"Let his death be a particularly unpleasant and humiliating one."

300

Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

Thunderpussy wrote:

The border was never an issue and if we go back to
Bombing and killing each other, that's our problem
No one  elses. ajb007/crap  I honestly can't see it, people are
Sick and tired of all terrorists. In fact I think it was
Shameful of the remainers  to try and use it as a
Weapon.

You've got a valid there  ajb007/martini

It was either that.....or the priesthood