The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

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  • JoshuaJoshua Posts: 1,138MI6 Agent
    Thank you. It is not that I am allowing anyone to silence me, it is just that I have said all I need to say and am satisfied that my comments and every one elses can be read and put into perspective by others. I may change my mind, but I have no reason to at this time.

    The British people will speak on Thursday and what they say will determine who is 'right' or 'wrong'. I can see no more powerful voice than that.

    I too was encouraged by many messages and I thank those who sent them.
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    The context of my quote was the following:
    Higgins wrote:
    And I have pointed out, that ‚Leaving the EU‘ could also mean ‚Leaving the EU‘ with a deal.
    That you and Joshua don‘t accept and put me in the same boat with dictators and undemocrats.

    And I have said "put me in the same boat" which is not the same like directly calling me something.
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    Well, that didn't take long.

    Joshua and Higgins, this thread is heading back to where it was before. You can use PMs to argue between yourselves and keep the thread for general comments and discussion.
  • JoshuaJoshua Posts: 1,138MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    Well, that didn't take long.

    Joshua and Higgins, this thread is heading back to where it was before. You can use PMs to argue between yourselves and keep the thread for general comments and discussion.

    Just to be clear, I have no intention of posting further on this thread so you have no need to 'worry'. I am not going to engage in personal messages or 'arguments' either. All I ask is that my name is not mentioned any further.

    Thank you and good bye (again!)
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    That's fine with me.
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,449MI6 Agent
    Number24 wrote:
    It's usually not deliberate when I misunderstand :#
    I wouldn't be surprised if many boycoted the upcoming EU election.
    I think we will get figures in the 30% ish of eligible voters turning out to vote, it's hard to call the results accross the whole eu, while some have the traditional left/right centrist parties haemorrhaging support and meps people like Le Pen and the AFD dnt seem to be going as strong as expected, though Salvini is really gathering momentum. In the UK I expect the tories to get a huge beating with a huge protest vote going to the Brexit Party, Change UK have limited following and are looked at as an undemocratic party.
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    I hope the young people, who have been moaning because they have „missed“ the Referendum are pulling their butts out of bed for this time.

    These elections are about the EU parliament but will certainly unfortunately be (ab)used by many Brits as a kind of another Referendum and I hope that the young people who moaned since 2016 will now do what they where supposed to do when the first Referendum was out.

    30% would be absolutely shameful. I expect a record number of voters here in Germany, last time, the differences between Juncker and Schulz where almost invisible. That‘s not the case now.

    2014 voter turnout was 43% EU- wide, Germany 47% and UK 36%
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    And I too hope the legions of the undead, the pensioners
    etc, make it out to vote. Leaving their old peoples homes,
    and hospitals. With their Zimmer frames and medical drips
    Still attached. Who'd have thought there were 17.4 million of
    The old gits :D
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,449MI6 Agent
    I meant between 30 and 40%, in the UK things have changed and this vote WILL be more about voters view on our domestic politics than that of EU politics, what has become quite apparent is that both remain and leave voters are sharing the view that a lot of politicians are refusing to uphold democracy.... In a democratically elected House of Parliament, and that simply will not do, if we were voting on Thursday in a general election it would be a blood bath for the main 2 parties.
    As for the young getting to the polling stations? I wont hold my breath, they only turned out in droves at the last general election because Corbyn stated he would remove student loans......something he later denied saying and was just "perhaps a future possibility, but was never in the manifesto"
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,449MI6 Agent
    And I too hope the legions of the undead, the pensioners
    etc, make it out to vote. Leaving their old peoples homes,
    and hospitals. With their Zimmer frames and medical drips
    Still attached. Who'd have thought there were 17.4 million of
    The old gits :D

    Looking at the demographics on AJB I'd say 17.4 million was a Conservative figure ?:) ;)
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Also Labour both promises to stop Brexit and leave with a deal :D
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,449MI6 Agent
    Also Labour both promises to stop Brexit and leave with a deal :D
    Yes the party of white rabbits out of top hats :))
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • Ens007Ens007 EnglandPosts: 863MI6 Agent
    Chriscoop wrote:
    As for the young getting to the polling stations? I wont hold my breath, they only turned out in droves at the last general election because Corbyn stated he would remove student loans......something he later denied saying and was just "perhaps a future possibility, but was never in the manifesto"

    The number of younger people who genuinely believe that a vote for Corbyn is a vote for 'free' things is frankly alarming.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    He's another Nick Clegg :)) the students were well
    And truly screwed over by him and the LibDems :D
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Ens007Ens007 EnglandPosts: 863MI6 Agent
    Farage has been 'milshaked' during his round of campaigning ... that'll probably add a few tens of 000's of votes for him, thereby doing the polar opposite of what was hoped no doubt.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    {[] many seem to think throwing a milkshake is great fun, but I
    Bet as soon as Corbyn etc get one. The police will be involved.
    Given the spate of acid attacks, I'd be worried what was being
    Thrown over me. Although I agree a few more votes for Brexit.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Ens007Ens007 EnglandPosts: 863MI6 Agent
    {[] many seem to think throwing a milkshake is great fun, but I
    Bet as soon as Corbyn etc get one. The police will be involved.
    Given the spate of acid attacks, I'd be worried what was being
    Thrown over me. Although I agree a few more votes for Brexit.

    I agree completely ... the dreadful murder of Jo Cox showed that especially.
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    Delete
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,644MI6 Agent
    {[] many seem to think throwing a milkshake is great fun, but I
    Bet as soon as Corbyn etc get one. The police will be involved.
    Given the spate of acid attacks, I'd be worried what was being
    Thrown over me. Although I agree a few more votes for Brexit.

    How would Kelis have put it?

    #My milkshake brings all the thugs to the yard.#

    :D
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    Chriscoop wrote:
    Italys woes are well documented and have been for years. Economists used to use the phrase "the dreaded piigs economies" (Portugal, Italy, Ireland,Greece, Spain) as it happens Greeces economy is growing perhaps a matter of the only way is up. Im not sure Germany would have the appetite for new bail outs? Having recently avoided recession by the smallest of margins and looking at their economy shrinking. One of the biggest issues facing many EU economies is the basic nature of the countries. Italy is a very diverse country culturally, politically and economically, the industrial North controls most wealth, the south is poor and politically they are as different as chalk and cheese, similar tale in Spain, where unemployment s at 24% but nearer 30% for under 30 year olds jobs are hard to get, and the rural communities have little interest in the EU or politics. Many in Spain see the EU as a cash cow that helps pay for new infrastructure, over generous benefits etc according to my Spanish friend people know its unsustainable but just carry on regardless. Will brexit removing one of the few net payers make things just a little harder for the majority of the EU member states? Possibly but not just yet while the UK still pays in but that's simply postponing the enivitable, unless of course the EU demands higher contributions from the remaining net payers. They must be praying the Rhine doesn't run dry again this summer.

    We've had a podium discussion yesterday and the youth unemployment situations in countries like Greece, Italy and Spain have been mentioned.

    Roots for the current unemployment are diverse and complicated, too complicated to blame the EU alone for it.

    As an example, Italy had a (I say populist) government under Berlsuconi for over a decade, who - like a recent president - was only focussed on getting re-elected and play with his base. Years and years have been lost and no structural reforms have been done and the current unemployment situation is one of the consequences out of that.

    The EU has a youth education program with 9 billion Euros (3 billions alone go to Spain) and that's where parts of the membership fees are going (that to all who want to limit the EU to a trade Union alone).

    So, a lot of money and aid is given to those countries, but as an example the current italian leaders only sack in the cash and use it for other purposes.

    I am using this example to make a few points (why it's necessary to pay membership fees/roots of the youth unemployment/aid programs by the EU and abuse of these aids). My intention is not to point fingers, I just want to give an example how complicated the situation gets when you are really looking under the hood.
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    I was posting about poverty in the UK,

    - Because this is thread about UK politics (while I habe no problem discussing german politics here)
    - the majority of people here live in a (relatively) much safer social system than in the UK - while, there are exceptions and we have really poor people as well).
    Healthcare, living minimum and so on are much better than in the UK.
    - populists here have 12-13% and not over 30% and the austerity politics in the UK have imo a lot to do with it.

    And so on.
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Glass houses and all that :D
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,449MI6 Agent
    Your post highlights one particular angle on poverty in the UK, the figures on food poverty are highly debatable, the NHS themselves say that admissions through malnutrition due to lack of food are very rare, Labour will cite many figures around 5000 people per year being admitted to hospital due to malnutrition due to hunger, but those figures include elderly people with dementia who simply forget to eat, people with underlying conditions both physical and mental. You also can't take the figures of food bank users as any sort of datum as although there are the very unfortunate and genuine cases, food banks are also abused by those who garner vouchers from many sources, including the police who hand them out to shop lifters who claim they are stealing to buy food!

    Unfortunately in the UK many see safety net state benefits as a way of life and an absolute right and choose not to work for a living. This removes resources from the genuine needy and those who's lives have fallen apart and also those who can't work for genuine reasons.
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    That argument
    Chriscoop wrote:
    Unfortunately in the UK many see safety net state benefits as a way of life and an absolute right and choose not to work for a living. This removes resources from the genuine needy and those who's lives have fallen apart and also those who can't work for genuine reasons.

    That argument is made here, too but if you see how austerity in this field affects real people is just saddening.
    Converting public services into „private“ with all the consequences ( can only be reached online etc) appears to be the case far more in the UK then here and so is ( from all that I am hearing) the general safety net.

    My intention is not to point fingers, the story of this particular individual touched me, particularly as he said how he‘s gonna vote.
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,449MI6 Agent
    That's not an argument, it's a very sad fact!
    I personally know of maybe 10 individuals who have received some sort of state benefit that they were not entitled to, and that is the biggest percentage our income tax pays for.
    Austerity has been appalling for some people, but on the other hand the sheer mismanagement and waste of state funds is equally to blame.
    It's not just a case of the haves and have nots it's also a case of want and don't want.
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/charity-worker-who-said-nigel-16179264
    Charity worker tweets " acid" should have been thrown over
    Nigel Farage.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,449MI6 Agent
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/charity-worker-who-said-nigel-16179264
    Charity worker tweets " acid" should have been thrown over
    Nigel Farage.
    Disgraceful!
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    edited May 2019
    I agree. Inacceptable rhetoric!

    On this week's Frankie Boyle show, he played a great clip of
    Jeremy Corbyn. Asking FOR a referendum to Leave the EU :))
    What a hypocrite....... any wonder his poster gets used for
    Shooting practice. ;)
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
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