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Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

The Brexiteers may tell you that it's mainly Labour's fault because half of them where voting against their personal beliefs.

ajb007/biggrin

Last edited by Higgins (3rd Jun 2019 11:11)

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

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Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

I'm very unimpressed by the British government's handling of Brexit, yes.

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I for one am proud  of our government,  Once again Britain
Is #1 ...... no other government  could have F*cked it up
Better  ajb007/biggrin

“I didn’t lose a friend, I just realised I never had one.”

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Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

You overestimate some of the goverments of the world, TP! There is a lot of potential to be bad for a government on this world, just look at places like Pakistan, Vanuatu, South Africa and Haiti. The British government has along way to go before they can compete in the same League as those countries, even though I admit they've made an effort to join them lately  ajb007/lol

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Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

This is not my return to this topic (until it moves on!) but I wonder if my UK based friends would read the following link and advise me if this is possible. The source seems to be reputable:

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. … pped-mps-0

Please feel free to reply by private message rather than here but I may take some time to acknowledge as I am busy. Thank you.

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Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

Thunderpussy wrote:

I for one am proud  of our government,  Once again Britain
Is #1 ...... no other government  could have F*cked it up
Better  ajb007/biggrin

Love it! And couldn’t agree more!

Japanese proverb say, "Bird never make nest in bare tree".

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Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

I guess with the use of the word Landed, perhaps mainland Europe
Thinks the UK has begun an invasion ?  ajb007/biggrin

Joshua, I don't think any PM would force through a " no deal" , and given that
John Bercow is remaining as speaker ( going back on an agreement he'd made )
I don't think it would be possible.

On the news tonight, I couldn't help laugh at Anna  Soubry, who's change party has
Disintegrated ( losing 6 MPs  ) now only 5 MPs  barely get 3% of the National vote.
Yet she's still  giving speeches about how they're going to shake up British politics !  ajb007/lol

“I didn’t lose a friend, I just realised I never had one.”

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Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

Thunderpussy wrote:

I guess with the use of the word Landed, perhaps mainland Europe
Thinks the UK has begun an invasion ?  ajb007/biggrin

Joshua, I don't think any PM would force through a " no deal" , and given that
John Bercow is remaining as speaker ( going back on an agreement he'd made )
I don't think it would be possible.

On the news tonight, I couldn't help laugh at Anna  Soubry, who's change party has
Disintegrated ( losing 6 MPs  ) now only 5 MPs  barely get 3% of the National vote.
Yet she's still  giving speeches about how they're going to shake up British politics !  ajb007/lol

Yes that went well then!  ajb007/lol
In other news it's nice to see the leader of the opposition (and possible future PM) in his natural environment.... Shouting down a megaphone and rabble rousing, earlier in the day his shadow foreign secretary was denouncing POTUS as a sexual predator and a racist! She also reffered to the Queen as a decent host! Should Labour get the election they've been craving and just happen to win how are they ever going to be able to deal with the USA with such an attitude, surely they should be showing some form of diplomacy and statesman like behaviour! What is interesting is they both attended the Chinese state visit, despite Chinese Premier presiding over a country that has horrific human rights issues (forced abortions, forced contraception coils being implanted in young women, over 1 million muslims locked up in prison camps etc) and issues with anti semitism in their own party it all smacks of double standards to me or even trying to hoover up a few votes. Its also a welcome distraction from their complete lack of policies or direction on brexit! How I wish we had a decent opposition!

It was either that.....or the priesthood

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Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

A question: In the British election system the party that gets the most votes in a constituancy gets the seat and the other parties in the district gets nothing. Is this system, a system that doesn't encourage co-operation and coalitions the way a representative system in my opinion do IMO, be part of the reason Brexit and the Brexit negotiations have been handled so badly?

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Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

Channel 4 had the leadership hopefulls debate tonight  ajb007/rolleyes


https://i.postimg.cc/7GsChXkM/Doomed.jpg

“I didn’t lose a friend, I just realised I never had one.”

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Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

Thunderpussy wrote:

Channel 4 had the leadership hopefulls debate tonight  ajb007/rolleyes


https://i.postimg.cc/7GsChXkM/Doomed.jpg

Have to laugh - the biggest winner of the debate was actually the bloke who didn't show up!  ajb007/lol

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Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr … e-minister

It isn't often I find myself agreeing with Max Hastings, but in this case....

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Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

I too see Boris Johnson that way. I hope Max Hastings is wrong about his view of modern politicians in general. I fear he's right about many of them, especially Boris, but the British have to remember Britain isn't a corrupt semi-dictatorship.  Theresa May has many faults, but I don't think she entered politics for fame and fortune. I think it was a sense of duty that made her see the office of Prime Minister.

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Number24 wrote:

the British have to remember Britain isn't a corrupt semi-dictatorship.

It isn't???? Where have I been living for the last 60 years then?

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Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

What are you saying - Britain was more democratic 60 years ago?


The fact is Britain is among the most democratic countries in the world: (Democracy Index)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Democracy_Index_2018.png/1200px-Democracy_Index_2018.png



http://www.thenagarepublic.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/ANCHOR23.jpg

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https://i.postimg.cc/K1XKkjCw/007.jpg

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Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

What is you point then?

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Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

Ok, I'll spell it out: The UK has a population of about 66m. Why should the PMs (and their entourages) be restricted to only those who have attended Eton/Oxford etc, ie about 0.1% of the population? (Cameron, Johnson, May)

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Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

I see your point. Britain isn't  a perfect democracy, it's just  a good one. What did you mean by "the last 60 years" - surely British politics wasn't less dominated by people with Public School backgrounds then?
It's natural to be frustrated by today's politics and politicians, but very many countries are much worse off. I was thinking of countries like Russia and Venezuela when I said Britain isn't a corrupt semi-democracy. I think we can say Tony Blair and David Cameron are living well, but Putin is possibly the richest man in the world now. There is a lot of difference.

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You get a better class of corruption with the Tories  ajb007/wink

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

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Are you seriously suggesting Theresa May and other Tory politicians are nearly as corrupt as Valdimir Putin?

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Number24 wrote:

What did you mean by "the last 60 years"

Just my lifetime. The cororally is that such people make decisions that beneficially affect themselves- for example, Johnson's recent intention to cut tax on those earning between £50-80k pa while funding that from an increase on NI contributions. This is literally robbing the poor to benefit the rich, ie reverse Robin Hood.

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Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

There are plenty of unjustices to be rectified, and that's a struggle that must never end. But I dislike it when people in some of the most democratic and least corrupt countries in the world try to make it sound like they're in a corrupt semi-democracy. That's just what demagogues like Farage and Trump like to hear. I worry that some of the people read things like that start to belive they are in a corrupt pretend demcracy and start thinking we should get a strong man like Putin who can sort things out. What is there to lose, there's no real democracy or freedom anyway?
I don't belive you have much time for Trump, Farage or Putin. I just fear weak souls will read posts like that and forget where we've lived for the last decades.

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Fair enough, point taken, though my original comment was not meant to be taken as seriously as you took it.

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Re: The General UK Politics (Past and Present) Discussion Thread

With regard to the graph, it says 'perceived levels' and is dated 2017. If we include 'corruption' in a moral and electoral sense, I think I may be correct when I say that attitudes among the British electorate will have changed since then given how Brexit has played out and the attitudes to it by politicians.
The actual case may be different but I think many people now see the system as corrupt.

Corrupt synonyms:  dishonest, dishonourable, unscrupulous, unprincipled, amoral, untrustworthy, underhand, deceitful, double-dealing, disreputable, discreditable, shameful, scandalous.

If we see corruption in the above terms then there is a case among many voters to see the British political system as corrupt.

From my own point of view, while observing the Brexit saga I have seen some similarities between the UK and my home country. I never thought I would say that and it pains me to do so but those (small) similarities should set alarm bells ringing for people who value democracy.

What are the signs? We do not recognise the referendum result. We wish to over turn it. We use the media to help. We engage in black propaganda. We use agitators to protest on the streets. Etc.

BTW this is still not my return to this conversation so expect no replies. I am just passing an opinion which is my own.