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Re: Pros and Cons: Moonraker

ajb007/martini  yes, Great Interview.

"Let his death be a particularly unpleasant and humiliating one."

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Re: Pros and Cons: Moonraker

in between seeing the Spy Who Loved Me and this film's release, I had seen all the old films on tv, including Casino Royale, and read all Flemings books. So I'd gotten a bit snobbish about what I really wanted to see in a Bond film, and at the time, this was not it. I've since grown more charitable.

PROS
-Barry's back
-some of the things the Spy Who Loved Me already did, this film does better. Drax gets much more screentime than did Stromberg, and chews up much more scenery. Goodhead is more persuasive as a highly skilled rival spy than was Amasova.
-movie Drax is not book Drax, who was a much cruder character, still fighting the Nazi cause behind the lines. But movie Drax is a type of Nazi, I suppose, philosophically, with his aristocratic snobbery and extreme selective breeding eugenics scheme. Clever creative update, especially given there weren't too many leftover Nazi Werwolfs by 1979, and society had largely moved beyond 19th century notions of Race and Class.
(note: the villain has the same name as in the book but is a different character. The leading lady has a different name, but is essentially the same character as Gala Brand!)
-Ken Adam sets, the space station especially is very well conceived. "Level 10: Orbital Camouflage", just like the signs in a department store!
-the one scene directly adapted from Fleming gets its own Ken Adam set.
-Venice and Brazil, this film may have the best location shots ever.
-actually takes more from 2001 than Star Wars, and we know they worked with Kubrick himself on the last film.
-Jaws is genuinely scary in the alleyway scene ... also, Drax hires him through Rent-a-Minion. Too bad we couldn't see the other end of that phone call: all these minions and henchmen sitting round the office waiting for a gig.
-Drax and his dogs are very scary, and the pheasant hunt actually is an effective excuse for a murder, completely innocent hunting accidents do happen.
-glass factory fight, may be Rogers best fight scene ever ... there are several serious, even dark sequences in this film.
-Lois Chiles has a low husky voice that tickles my sub-woofer just right. And Goodhead actually does most of the work once they climb on board the last spaceshuttle, Bond is just there as muscle. I've read Chiles regrets this role, but she really did advance the concept of the Bondgirl. Her introduction even contrasts with all the eyecandy Bond has been oggling since arriving on Drax's estate: the main BondGirl of the film is the first female not flashing a lot of skin!
-"I think he's attempting re-entry" is the best closing line ever
-the gondola chase could be discretely edited out without affecting the plot in any way.

CONS
-some of the things the Spy Who Loved Me already did, this film does much much stoopider. And it repeats a lot from the previous film, a cleavage flashing helicopter pilot, a drunk doublechecking his bottle, almost every last detail gets repeated.
-throws out (almost) all the Fleming. I know we've discussed why before, but it's one of Flemings best books, very cinematic in and of itself. There's a lot in the book that would make for good film sequences, yet to be adapted. Spot the small details that do show up in the Spy Who Loved Me and Octopussy!
-the gondola chase is completely stoopid, every aspect of it. Why does he even get in the gondola after speaking with Holly? such an inefficient murder attempt, entirely slapstick, makes no sense, not a single damn aspect of that whole never-ending sequence ... I guess it does show off the canals.
-Jaws just does Wile E Coyote routines except for the alleyway scene, even the preCredits Sequence is ruined by comedy Jaws.
-the Get Smart movie tried to parody this opening sequence but couldn't find anyway to make it any sillier than it already was.
-if the Minister of Defence orders Bond off the case, why is he first in line to congratulate him at the end for saving the world? hypocritial politician.
-I can't think of more specific cons. But the selfparody does completely overwhelm the film, from first scene to last, to the point it's easy to forget there ever were three or four serious bits.

questions about the scantily clad lovelies always hanging round:
-Drax is always accompanied by these Titled aristocrat chicks, do they get invited on the "space-ark"? that would seem consistent with his Selective Breeding scheme, but I'm not sure I recognised any faces.
-the receptionist at the glass factory is one of the women at the rainforest HQ is she not? The one Bond follows into the caves? I thought I did recognise her face.

Last edited by caractacus potts (14th Jan 2018 22:45)

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Re: Pros and Cons: Moonraker

Yes to both those questions. ajb007/smile

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Re: Pros and Cons: Moonraker

Barbel wrote:

Yes to both those questions. ajb007/smile

"I'm tempted to say yes immediately."

1. TWINE  2. FYEO  3. MR  4. TLD  5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS  7. DN  8. OP  9. AVTAK  10. TMWTGG  11. QoS 12. GE  13. CR  14. TB  15. FRWL  16. LTK  17. GF  18. SF  19. LaLD  20. YOLT  21. TND  22. DAD  23. DAF.

"If you'll forgive me, that's a little too scented for my palate."

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Re: Pros and Cons: Moonraker

thanks Barbel, that's extremely obscure casting details, you must have this movie memorised well!

I'm now thinking, why wouldn't Drax invite Goodhead herself? she's physically very fit (we see her punching out minions), she's got Lauren Bacall style classic beauty, and she's hella-smart ... wouldn't she qualify as perfect specimen for his breeding scheme?
but no, he prefers Titled aristocrat chicks, the type Bertie Wooster is always trying to get out of marrying ... probably in-breds too, going by my knowledge of Europe's Royal families, and Downton Abbey and PG Wodehose ... Drax does have a very 19th century view of what types of humans are superior to whom

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Re: Pros and Cons: Moonraker

If he didn't kill them, I'm sure he would've been fine with them surviving. But Bond does allude to this physical perfection in regards to Jaws which makes him switch sides...

1. TWINE  2. FYEO  3. MR  4. TLD  5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS  7. DN  8. OP  9. AVTAK  10. TMWTGG  11. QoS 12. GE  13. CR  14. TB  15. FRWL  16. LTK  17. GF  18. SF  19. LaLD  20. YOLT  21. TND  22. DAD  23. DAF.

"If you'll forgive me, that's a little too scented for my palate."

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Re: Pros and Cons: Moonraker

Miss Moneypenny's Daughter made the cut.  ajb007/wink

"Let his death be a particularly unpleasant and humiliating one."

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Re: Pros and Cons: Moonraker

I'll share my 2 cents considering this topic has been revived.

Pro's:

- Much like The Spy Who Loved Me, Roger Moore pulls in a great performance as Bond, maybe a little campy but at least he puts in his all. In fact, I felt that he was right on his game up until and including Octopussy, beginning with Spy.
- All of the locations excluding space are nice. California was actually filmed in France from what I read and actually looks like the same chateau as A View To A Kill, but Italy and Brazil are exciting
- Excellent pre credits sequence, one of the best in the series. Nice surprise to see Jaws return.
- Excellent action scenes, some of the series' best such as the silly gondola chase, the cable car scene and the second boat chase in the Amazon.
- Jaws (Richard Kiel) returning
- Hugo Drax, despite not being one of my personal favourites has a better background and introduction than Stromberg
- A lot of suspense
- Lots of entertaining moments, even if they were laughable

Cons:

- Holly Goodhead is a rather dull character, as is Corrine Darfur
- The whole measuring up to physical perfection thing didn't make sense to me at all
- Drax's death is forgettable, rather than a cool fight between him and Bond
- Exactly the same as the previous movie in every sense
- Space. Not a Bond location, or a good one in any stretch of the imagination. I don't like Sci-Fi movies at all so it doesn't help.
- As much as I enjoy the fight between Cha and Bond in Italy, him dressing up as sword fighting teacher doesn't make sense. There is such as a thing as a gun, and a silencer. 
- Over the top campy moments, particularly in the ambulance and latter half of the film

Overall, it is a very good bond movie in my opinion and an impressive adventure, despite it's shortcomings. I still like it more than Moore's first two efforts and maybe A View To A Kill as well. Ultimately, the series was going over the top and needed a refresher, which is exactly what happened with the entire 80's decade.

1. FYEO 2. TLD 3. LTK 4. FRWL 5. OHMSS 6. TSWLM 7. GF  8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. DN 11. SP 12. MR 13. SF  14. CR 15. TB 16. LALD 17. GE 18. YOLT 19. TND 20. TMWTGG 21. TWINE 22. TND 23. DAF 24. DAD

1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Lazenby 5. Craig  6. Brosnan

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I’ll hold off on commenting fully on this movie until it comes around on my rewatch, but I personally love it.  The film is all about escalation...it starts out as one movie and slowly, ever so slowly, ramps up the insanity.  What keeps it all from going over the edge is Drax, who’s detached boredom at the craziness going around him keeps the film strangely grounded and gives it a sense of being ‘in on the joke’.  If you roll with it and embrace the ridiculous, this film is one hell of an enjoyable romp.

Current rankings:
OHMSS>FRWL>CR>TSWLM>YOLT>MR>TLD>SF>GE>OP>DN>FYEO>
TWINE>TND>QOS>TB>TMWTGG>GF>LALD>SP>DAF>LTK>AVTAK>DAD
Bond rankings: Lazenby>Moore>Connery>Craig>Dalton>Brosnan

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Re: Pros and Cons: Moonraker

Thunderpussy wrote:

Miss Moneypenny's Daughter made the cut.  ajb007/wink

ajb007/cheers  Indeed she did, and just in case anybody's wondering she plays Lady Victoria Devon, one of the two beauties listening to Drax playing (ahem) the piano when Bond first meets him:

https://s14.postimg.cc/c88771op9/aa_old_man_4.jpg

and later:

https://s14.postimg.cc/xj5raztvh/AA_OLD_MAN_5.jpg


No relation to https://s14.postimg.cc/jdzy965el/aa_old_man_7.jpg




caractacus potts wrote:

thanks Barbel, that's extremely obscure casting details, you must have this movie memorised well!

Comes from not growing up at all! (Well, really from watching movies dozens if not hundreds of times)

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Re: Pros and Cons: Moonraker

I also think by employing so many women. Drax was
Trying  to keep his wage bill down  ajb007/biggrin

( who says I can't be topical )

"Let his death be a particularly unpleasant and humiliating one."

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Re: Pros and Cons: Moonraker

Quite a silly film, but entirely watchable. Much more so than TMWTGG (it gets harder every time) and especially DAD (rewatched recently - don't think I can for another decade). Venice and Rio are great looking sequences - the Jaws alleyway stalking scene is creepy!

All of Drax's beauties at his estate/pheasant shooting/Venice glass factory make it onto the spaceship. I've only noticed the females. Are the men also on Drax's payroll and seen in scenes before? I suspect Corrine would have been included if she hadn't gone to the dogs.

http://www.007collection.blogspot.com check it! All my 007 autographs, toys, cars, books and more!

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dickiebart wrote:

I've only noticed the females. Are the men also on Drax's payroll and seen in scenes before?

Yes, they are. Bit difficult to make out though- they don't get the close-ups the females do!

https://s14.postimg.cc/6luobsu1p/aa_old_man_4.jpg

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Re: Pros and Cons: Moonraker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqlkxrE … mp;index=3

Letter dated Aug 21st , 1978......... ajb007/heart

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Re: Pros and Cons: Moonraker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKZ_j_U … mp;index=2

40 now  ajb007/martini  ajb007/bond

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Re: Pros and Cons: Moonraker

dickiebart wrote:

Quite a silly film, but entirely watchable.

I’d be curious to see an itemized list why you think it’s “quite silly”

I count Jaws flapping his arms and then roughly 40 minutes later the pigeon and then maybe 30 minutes later Jaws meeting Dolly. In other words, any silly moments are few and far between. I find the tone of the film to be similar to YOLT, but with a production quality that is a million times better.

Technology and special effects had finally caught up with the artistic vision of the Bond filmmakers and this is THE film they had been dreaming about making since the mid 60’s.

I watched it last night for its 40th anniversary ajb007/smile  Absolute masterpiece down to the smallest detail. The seasoned Bond crew was at the height of their talents on Moonraker.

"Please don't try to follow me"

1. MR 2. TSWLM 3. GE 4. TND 5. TMWTGG 6. DN 7. GF 8. TWINE 9. AVTAK 10. OP

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Firemass wrote:
dickiebart wrote:

Quite a silly film, but entirely watchable.

I’d be curious to see an itemized list why you think it’s “quite silly”

I count Jaws flapping his arms and then roughly 40 minutes later the pigeon and then maybe 30 minutes later Jaws meeting Dolly. In other words, any silly moments are few and far between. I find the tone of the film to be similar to YOLT, but with a production quality that is a million times better.

Technology and special effects had finally caught up with the artistic vision of the Bond filmmakers and this is THE film they had been dreaming about making since the mid 60’s.

I watched it last night for its 40th anniversary ajb007/smile  Absolute masterpiece down to the smallest detail. The seasoned Bond crew was at the height of their talents on Moonraker.

It has more than a few silly moments, but I think it does silly better than the Craig Bond films do serious. But it's easier to do silly. I agree that it's a masterpiece. It might be the most rewatchable Bond for me.