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Re: The Race for the Tory Leadership and Premiership [Johnson v Hunt]

Longer than Hunt and May? I don't know.

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Re: The Race for the Tory Leadership and Premiership [Johnson v Hunt]

Number24 wrote:

Longer than Hunt and May? I don't know.

Well, as Johnson backed the Leave campaign in 2016 I'd like to have thought so! Hunt and May both backed Remain at that time. Don't forget, Johnson was also a correspondent in Brussels for the Daily Telegraph for several years so I'm sure he knew all of the faults and failings of what became the EU!

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Re: The Race for the Tory Leadership and Premiership [Johnson v Hunt]

Silhouette Man wrote:

Well, as Johnson backed the Leave campaign in 2016 I'd like to have thought so! Hunt and May both backed Remain at that time. Don't forget, Johnson was also a correspondent in Brussels for the Daily Telegraph for several years so I'm sure he knew all of the faults and failings of what became the EU!

during his time in Brussels, the EU was already. It has not become the EU.

And he knows not only about faults and failings of the EU, he's also very much aware of the many positive aspects, thus he would not support Leave until later in 2016. It was absolutely possible that he'd run for Remain at that time, too.


Paul Bigley described Mr Johnson as a "self-centred pompous twit" who should "get out of public life"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/3758340.stm

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Re: The Race for the Tory Leadership and Premiership [Johnson v Hunt]

Higgins wrote:
Silhouette Man wrote:

Well, as Johnson backed the Leave campaign in 2016 I'd like to have thought so! Hunt and May both backed Remain at that time. Don't forget, Johnson was also a correspondent in Brussels for the Daily Telegraph for several years so I'm sure he knew all of the faults and failings of what became the EU!

during his time in Brussels, the EU was already. It has not become the EU.

And he knows not only about faults and failings of the EU, he's also very much aware of the many positive aspects, thus he would not support Leave until later in 2016.


Paul Bigley described Mr Johnson as a "self-centred pompous twit" who should "get out of public life"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/3758340.stm

No, I'm afraid you're mistaken, Higgins. Technically, at the very least. I worded it that way for a very specific reason. I'm well aware of the history of the EU and its forerunners, having studied substantive EU law in two modules for a Masters in Law. I'll explain my reasoning to you below, which is backed up by plain fact.

When Boris Johnson was first appointed as the Daily Telegraph correspondent for Brussels it was in early 1989. Now at that time what is now called the EU was called the European Economic Community (EEC). It wasn't until the Treaty of Maastricht came into force in 1993 that the name changed to the current one: the European Union (EU). It was as much about political union as economic union. Johnson, the Daily Telegraph's Brussels correspondent, remaining in that post until 1994. So, the EU was only in existence for about a year of the time Johnson was reporting from Brussels. And, though he may well have been aware of "the many positive aspects" (your words, not mine) of that organisation he certainly chose not to report on them, being one of the few Eurosceptic journalists in Brussels at that time. So, his Brexit supporting credentials seem to have been in evidence long before the Leave campaign in 2016.

That link you provided is very old (2004) news, too, to be honest and not really relevant to the Tory leadership campaign that is currently taking place. Johnson apologised for the offence caused at the time and visited the people of Liverpool to make amends. I think we should accept that apology and the penance paid and move on, quite frankly.

Last edited by Silhouette Man (30th Jun 2019 19:14)

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Re: The Race for the Tory Leadership and Premiership [Johnson v Hunt]

“Never let the truth get in the way of a good story,”
- Mark Twain    ajb007/lol

"Let his death be a particularly unpleasant and humiliating one."

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Re: The Race for the Tory Leadership and Premiership [Johnson v Hunt]

Silhouette Man wrote:


No, I'm afraid you're mistaken, Higgins. Technically, at the very least. I worded it that way for a very specific reason. I'm well aware of the history of the EU and its forerunners, having studied substantive EU law in two modules for a Masters in Law. I'll explain my reasoning to you below, which is backed up by plain fact.

When Boris Johnson was first appointed as the Daily Telegraph correspondent for Brussels it was in early 1989. Now at that time what is now called the EU was called the European Economic Community (EEC). It wasn't until the Treaty of Maastricht came into force in 1993 that the name changed to the current one: the European Union (EU).

And I knew what your reply would be about*

The Maastricht treaty was signed February 1992, so it was long negotiated before and was signed right in the middle of Johnson's tenure.

*Now as you obviously see the political expansion of the EU as one of the „faults and failings“:

It was a direct reaction to the downfall of the Iron Curtain (1989) and as a result, many countries of the Warsaw pact became independent.
So the decision had to be done:

1. let them fall into the control of Russia or,
2. embed them politically into the West by letting them join the then EU and thus further expand the peace keeping (and thus political) role of the EU.

I am pretty sure that you agree, that at that time the further political integration of the EEC was without much alternative.
I haven't checked, but I am pretty sure, the UK government signed the Maastricht treaty as well.

As for the WWU, the UK opted out and still does not have the EURO currency.

It's easy to critizise the expansion (territorial and political) expansion of the EEC to the EU, but everybody who had the privilege to experience those days knows, that those decisions had to be done quick and bold.

I'd say that the conversion to what we are calling the EU started right after 1989, but I agree, it was signed later and became effect in 1993.

Last edited by Higgins (1st Jul 2019 05:07)

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Re: The Race for the Tory Leadership and Premiership [Johnson v Hunt]

As for Johnson having a tradition of being an Eurosceptic:

He was contracted by the Torygraph, so he knew, what he had to write and he knew his target group.

You can't dispute that prior to the Brexit Referendum, Johnson clearly avoided to position himself to one side or the other, as far as I remember, he was mainly running against everything that Cameron would stand for as a result of a University rivallry.

Also, during his service as London Major 2008-2016, he was outspoken EU-friendly.

Quote Boris Johnson 2013:
"If we left the EU, we would end this sterile debate, and we would have to recognise that most of our problems are not caused by “Bwussels”, but by chronic British short-termism, inadequate management, sloth, low skills, a culture of easy gratification and underinvestment in both human and physical capital and infrastructure"

Last edited by Higgins (30th Jun 2019 20:07)

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

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Re: The Race for the Tory Leadership and Premiership [Johnson v Hunt]

Sir Miles wrote:
Silhouette Man wrote:

Boris is also a popular candidate in the country at large....

ajb007/amazed Not sure where you get that idea from?

The guy is a walking disaster...he’s a bumbling idiot AT BEST!

I know the UK is famed for its sense of humour...but putting Boris in charge...???...the lunatics really will have taken over the asylum...time to see if I qualify for another country...


I understand where you are coming from Sir Miles re: Boris, however the thought of the likes of Corbyn, Abbott & McDonnell in charge of this country terrifies me if I'm being honest!

And on that note, I see Labour are endearing themselves to the hardworking souls in this country who wish to leave their loved ones something when they pass on, by proposing a cut to the inheritance tax allowance ... if ever there was a vote 'turd in a swimming pool' it's that!

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Re: The Race for the Tory Leadership and Premiership [Johnson v Hunt]

I wanted to add, that it's a legend, that the European political integration has started with the beginning of the EU in 1993!

The conversion from a Trade Union ONLY to a Political Union started in the 1970s with the EPZ (European Cooperation).
That process was started in 1970 (with the UK signing it)  and went until 1993 when the European Union became effective.

The idea, that before 1993, it was a Trade Union Only because the name was EEC is absurd.
As said, that process started in 1970 and had different dynamics.
After the fall of the iron curtain 1989, the European Integration collected more steam and the name EEC was obsolete for quite a long time.

So, Boris Johnson may have been a witness of the endgame of the European Integration, but what became the EU was mostly existent in 1990 already.

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

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Re: The Race for the Tory Leadership and Premiership [Johnson v Hunt]

Ens007 wrote:
Sir Miles wrote:
Silhouette Man wrote:

Boris is also a popular candidate in the country at large....

ajb007/amazed Not sure where you get that idea from?

The guy is a walking disaster...he’s a bumbling idiot AT BEST!

I know the UK is famed for its sense of humour...but putting Boris in charge...???...the lunatics really will have taken over the asylum...time to see if I qualify for another country...


I understand where you are coming from Sir Miles re: Boris, however the thought of the likes of Corbyn, Abbott & McDonnell in charge of this country terrifies me if I'm being honest!

I think it’s frying pan or fire time...I’m slightly less worried with Corbyn & Co. than Boris...but it does feel like we are all playing Russian Roulette  ajb007/amazed

YNWA: Justice For The 96

The Joy Of 6

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Re: The Race for the Tory Leadership and Premiership [Johnson v Hunt]

Sir Miles wrote:
Silhouette Man wrote:

Boris is also a popular candidate in the country at large....

ajb007/amazed Not sure where you get that idea from?

The guy is a walking disaster...he’s a bumbling idiot AT BEST!

I know the UK is famed for its sense of humour...but putting Boris in charge...???...the lunatics really will have taken over the asylum...time to see if I qualify for another country...

Yes, perhaps I should have qualified that rather general statement by saying Boris is popular in the conservative and floating voter element in the country at large. A recent poll has shown a landslide for Boris being inevitable from the voting figures among the Tory membership. There is a feeling that however good and impressive Hunt is on paper he's just going to be more of the same as we already had for the last three years with May.

Ultimately, the vast majority of Tory party members will vote for the candidate who can most ably deliver Brexit as promised to the electorate in the 2017 manifesto, unite the Conservative Party, win the next general election and see off the combined threats of Jeremy Corbyn and Nigel Farage and then deliver on pressing domestic reform. Whatever way you look at that it's clear that Boris Johnson is the only candidate left in the race who can deliver on these pressing outstanding matters.

Whether people in the country at large like Boris or not is going to be irrelevant. Boris will have to of course earn their trust and respect to stay in power and win the next general election, which may be imminent if the Opposition has their way (as soon as September 2019?). It's almost a certainty now that he's going to win the Tory leadership and the premiership and people would be best preparing getting used to it.

Last edited by Silhouette Man (7th Jul 2019 22:52)

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