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Re: Pros and Cons: Tomorrow Never Dies

chrisisall wrote:

I loved GE, but when TND came out I was THRILLED with all the Barry-esque beauty!

It makes a huge difference for me too! But the music isn't just ripping off Barry, for better or worse. it has enough classic Bond sound for both GE and TND!

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Re: Pros and Cons: Tomorrow Never Dies

Matt S wrote:
chrisisall wrote:

I loved GE, but when TND came out I was THRILLED with all the Barry-esque beauty!

It makes a huge difference for me too! But the music isn't just ripping off Barry, for better or worse. it has enough classic Bond sound for both GE and TND!

A personal favourite of mine would be the printing-press escape and the arrival to his hotel room.

a reasonable rate of return

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Re: Pros and Cons: Tomorrow Never Dies

It was the last purely "fun" Bond film, as in Bond films weren't becoming obsessed with looking inward and psychological even though there are hints of it in TND's.

@deanwdunlevy

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Re: Pros and Cons: Tomorrow Never Dies

I love the overwhelming familiarity of the Roger Moore era in TND.  With the exception of LALD, I can see references from the other 6 RM films.

TMWTGG:  Sailing in Thailand. There is a shot in TND that looks almost identical to the closing scene of GG.  The thugs giving Brosnan a beatdown also reminds me of the fight scene in dancer's dressing room. "I've lost my charm!"

TSWLM:  Bond in Naval uniform. Military themed stuff in general. On board the stealth boat is pretty similar to the tanker.

MR:  Bond & Girl sliding down Carver banner reminds me of Bond & Girl sliding down the cable car with the chain.
The scene with Bond testing Wai Lin's gadgets and weapons is almost a carbon copy of Bond with Holly. "Standard CIA equipment."
The stealth ship is like Drax's space station. Once they disable the cloaking system it appears on radar and can thus be destroyed by the military.

FYEO:  Diving in the Devonshire and surfacing to find their boat has suffered a hostile takeover.

OP:  Similar PTS. Bond flying, missile coming….

AVTAK: Meeting the villain at his party and baiting him with conversation.  Roger did the sport fishing bit and Pierce did the "I'd be lost at sea..adrift." about writing a novel.

Check my instagram problemeliminator for 007 related posts


1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK

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Re: Pros and Cons: Tomorrow Never Dies

Only criticism after rewatch is that Bond blows his cover too early when speaking with Carver at the party, otherwise I really enjoyed and give it a 10/10.

Note: I had an issue with my Blu-ray copy for this film as well, but bought a digital copy to replace it.

"Hostile takeovers.  Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD  2. TND  3. GF  4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later

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Re: Pros and Cons: Tomorrow Never Dies

PROS
- Score sounds like a proper Bondscore, and both Sheryl Crow and k.d.lang deliver what sound like proper Bond songs.

- Original (for a Bondfilm) villain's plot, inspired by Randolph Hearst, and more true than ever in todays world.
- Jonathon Pryce really hams it up.
- Carver is killed by the same evil machine that opens the movie. Bonus points whenever that happens!

- More pastiching from some very good source material:
- Plot structure follows the Spy Who Loved Me very closely.
Bond and Paris ordering each others drinks is a clever variation on classic tSWLM dialog.
- The search of the sunken vessel is from Thunderball, but even moreso from a similar scene in For Your Eyes Only where (1) Melina joined Bond for the search and (2) Kristatos was waiting on the surface to capture them.
- The revealing of the stealth boat to the outside world is from Moonraker (remember, thats why Bond and Holly took the elevator to Orbital Communicator Level 10!!).

- M has a bar in her limo, and she's the only one having a drink during that meeting. She was drinking in her office in the previous film: is DenchM a bit of an alky?

- Some very good action sequences.
- The escape and lengthy chase while handcuffed is my favourite action sequence from the Brosnan films. It starts off like the 39 Steps, then almost immediately turns into an acrobatic circus show with intricate choreography and good use of the local geography.

- The bit where Bond and Wai Linn escape the collapsing ship is another very good action sequence, again good use of geography and very scary.
The difference between this and most of the other action sequences is I actually care what happens next.

- Michelle Yeoh does some amazing stunts and in the second half it is always worth watching what she is doing, even as the action setpieces drag.


- Dr Kaufmann is a highlight of the movie even with his brief screen time. Or maybe because his single scene is not dragged out like every other scene in the film: it's all in the dialog and acting, no action setpiece required!


- The story of Paris Carver has so much potential and would have made for a good BondNovel.
- Terri Hatcher delivered the most famous closing line in Seinfeld history.
- The "girl from Bond's past" was never a plot in any Fleming, but was used in the Climax Mystery Theatre version of Casino Royale!
- Unseen Mission: so when and where did Bond meet Paris before?
- Of course Bond's past affairs are all in his MI6 file, that only makes sense, and of course his bosses would exploit the knowledge. This really is the most interesting idea in the film, and had so much potential...



CONS
- Title was a typo.

- I think this is the first film with absolutely no Fleming. tSWLM and aVtaK at least had brief concepts or dialog from other novels.

- The k.d. lang song seems to have more elements in common with the score and should have been used as the main theme.


- Paris's tragedy would have meant more if we really had seen her before. But because Brosnan was new and there was that six year gap, there's not really any actual previous Bondgirls they could have brought back.
- Maybe there should have been a pre-credits set nine years earlier like in the previous film, showing us their relationship?
- Maybe when Bond first sees her at the party there should have been a Casablanca style flashback? (then he could have used the pun "We'll always have Paris")

- I laughed out loud when Paris said "What was it James? Did I get too close?".
Paris is a good idea for a character, but Terri Hatcher cannot deliver the dialog. She's just too brittle.
(of course it's lousy dialog to begin with)

- Five minutes after Paris' death, Bond himself is laughing having discovered the fun of the BMW's remote control. I don't think her name is ever mentioned again. Very poor script.


- Action scenes drag on and on, and on and on and on, obscuring what little plot there is.
- I personally lost track as to whats going on in the stealth boat and don't care enough to pay closer attention. Endless machine gun fire and explosions. And that is one long closing action setpiece.

- Brosnan always has a machine gun in his hand, which he sprays indiscrimately (at least usually at bad guys in this film, as opposed to the local police in the previous film).
At the end he has one in each hand, and is not watching where either of them is shooting. That's his entire repetoir, and we never see him out-think his opponents.
- At the same time, Wai Linn is performing all these amazing stunts, accentuating Brosnan's dependence on those machine guns.
- If they'd written James Bond out of the story, and made it a Wai Linn solo adventure, it'd actually be a better movie.

- Wai Linn and Bond have no chemistry and that final clinch seems to come out of newhere.


- Wade is channeling Pepper rather than Leiter

- "Don't ask" "Don't tell" is a very forced political reference that barely makes sense within the dialog, and instead draws attention to how poor the dialog is in general.
The refence is to Bill Clinton failing to protect the rights of gays in the military, thus completely inappropriate to the dialog's context in the film, and all the more insensitive to its real life meaning.

- M and Moneypenny in general.
In the previous film they were both scolding Bond for being a heterosexual.
Now he's being cynically exploited to specifically use his mojo superpowers to save the world, and the two of them are licking their lips and making lewd puns about this job he is being forced to do.
He should have complained to H.R. that they were treating him like a sex-object and all they wanted him for was his body!

- Bond delivers the newspaper to the war-room and explains it's suspicious Carver printed the story before it had actually happened. Then they all immediately drive away in M's limo, and she already has prepared all the research on Carver, Bond's plane tickets and reservations, and has dug up the background on Bond and Paris and decided the specifics of Bond's mission.
When the deuce did she have time to do all that if they just made the Carver connection in the scene immediately before?

- Bond is till driving a standard issue yuppie-mobile for the job even though his personal car is the Aston.


- In general, this is my least favourite of the four Brosnans.
Die Another Day at least had more solid material in its first half, this one quickly abandons any interesting ideas in favour of never-ending action setpieces.
- Aside form a few of the better action scenes, the Dr Kaufman scene is the only keeper.

-Yesterday Never Tomorrows is probably a better movie.
https://static.simpsonswiki.com/images/0/08/Yesterday_Never_Tomorrows.png

Last edited by caractacus potts (7th Jun 2020 19:03)