AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

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Comments

  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    edited June 2020
    Barbel wrote:
    Sir Miles wrote:
    Barbel wrote:
    Re the editing- I do understand what the intention was. IMHO they fail in that intention. The prime exhibit for that statement is the scene of Mitchell's sudden turn and Mr White's escape. A first-time viewer which we all were initially comes away with the definite impression that M has been shot.

    I NEVER got the impression that M had been shot - and was surprised when people on here thought that she had been (on initial viewing)

    Is it possible (and I'm being serious) that you blinked at that exact moment, when M falls to the right? Or looked down at your popcorn?

    Yeah I think I remember being confused as to whether she'd been hurt- having someone fall over after a gun is fired at them is pretty standard cinema shorthand for 'they've been shot'! :) There's just not enough information in the scene.
    When M says later 'I passed him on the way in' it's sort of new information rather than anything you were allowed to notice at the time. I don't even remember getting a good idea of how many people are in the room, which makes White's 'person in the room' comment a bit of a cheat.
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    For me, QOS is a mess, especially the lunacy of the editing. The story is bland and it is the only Bond movie I have seen in that upon leaving the cinema I felt absolutely flat. After CR I had such high hopes and it was so disappointing to watch. Does anyone know why Martin Campbell didn’t direct what was essentially a direct sequel?

    I used to rank the movies but it kept changing slightly every time I saw one, so I now categorise them as A, B, C or D.

    QOS sits firmly in D along with GE, TWINE and DAD.

    I guess he just didn't want to do it! :)

    I agree with your D rating: I think it's a very good candidate for worst Bond film. Kind of bizarre it sits there sandwiched between two films I would suggest are right up there vying for the 'best Bond film ever' title. Craig really gets a rollercoaster ride! Let's hope that the downward plunge of Spectre means he's on his way back up with NTTD again! :)
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    emtiem wrote:
    Barbel wrote:
    Sir Miles wrote:

    I NEVER got the impression that M had been shot - and was surprised when people on here thought that she had been (on initial viewing)

    Is it possible (and I'm being serious) that you blinked at that exact moment, when M falls to the right? Or looked down at your popcorn?

    Yeah I think I remember being confused as to whether she'd been hurt- having someone fall over after a gun is fired at them is pretty standard cinema shorthand for 'they've been shot'! :) There's just not enough information in the scene.
    When M says later 'I passed him on the way in' it's sort of new information rather than anything you were allowed to notice at the time. I don't even remember getting a good idea of how many people are in the room, which makes White's 'person in the room' comment a bit of a cheat.

    Yes, we're not presented with enough information. The argument against that is that normally we (the audience) are spoonfed and it makes a change for us to have to work things out for ourselves. It's an argument with which I don't agree. Spoonfed or not, there are cinematic tropes that we have come to expect and it's jarring and disorienting to see them thrown away.
  • ichaiceichaice LondonPosts: 593MI6 Agent
    For me QoS has got better with time, especially when you consider how bad Spectre was. Dominic Greene was also a much better villain than Silva and Blofeld (Spectre) for me. Some of the light comedy was very good....teachers on sabbatical a good example. Bond's reaction after Mathis was killed was very well acted as was the scene in Kazan. Just show's that some of the best work doesn't need to be expensive. The chase scene was also very good. Funnily enough I rate the DC films in the order they were released with CR being far and away the best and Spectre one of the worst films I've ever seen. I think I'll watch QoS again very soon.
    Yes. Considerably!
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    How about tonight? :D
  • ichaiceichaice LondonPosts: 593MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    How about tonight? :D

    :)) -{
    Yes. Considerably!
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    emtiem wrote:
    Barbel wrote:

    Is it possible (and I'm being serious) that you blinked at that exact moment, when M falls to the right? Or looked down at your popcorn?

    Yeah I think I remember being confused as to whether she'd been hurt- having someone fall over after a gun is fired at them is pretty standard cinema shorthand for 'they've been shot'! :) There's just not enough information in the scene.
    When M says later 'I passed him on the way in' it's sort of new information rather than anything you were allowed to notice at the time. I don't even remember getting a good idea of how many people are in the room, which makes White's 'person in the room' comment a bit of a cheat.

    Yes, we're not presented with enough information. The argument against that is that normally we (the audience) are spoonfed and it makes a change for us to have to work things out for ourselves. It's an argument with which I don't agree. Spoonfed or not, there are cinematic tropes that we have come to expect and it's jarring and disorienting to see them thrown away.

    I do hate it when people say 'spoonfed' or 'dumbed down' or anything like that as if giving you information is a bad thing.

    I always find Chris McQuarrie's thoughts on filmmaking really interesting, and there's something he always points out which is that when he opens a scene he gives you the geography. For example in that amazing bathroom fight in Mission Impossible Fallout, he first has Ethan and Walker follow the bad guy around the room, and he says he does that so you know the layout of the room so you can follow the fight when it starts. And he's right: it's all very clear.
    Or the Quantum guy in that room that we never see kind of reminded me of Silva's gang's approach to Skyfall lodge: you see them walking up to the house in a succession of shots, and in each shot the Aston Martin gets shown a little bit more. Now it's not quite the same thing as he's almost promising the audience that the car is about to do something, but he's giving you the information that it's there- it won't be a cheat when suddenly it starts machine gunning people. It's the difference between good filmmaking and poor filmmaking.
  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 3,907MI6 Agent
    Question: is there a break in time after that initial chase scene in Italy, and Bond beginning the film's main mission in Latin America?
    The film's pacing suggests it all happens continuously, and yet time is obviously moving much slower for Mathis once he reappears.
    He's been tortured and then relocated to the island where Craig finds him, so presumably months have gone by for him.

    I've decided in Casino Royale there is a time gap after Bond reports Vesper's death and Bond showing up at Mr White's house. It appears at first glance to be the very next thing he does, but there's no reason why that final scene should happen so quickly, and Bond at very least must have spent time researching to track him down. So time has gone by, even though the film does not tell us that.

    Same at the end of Quantum..., the final scene could happen months after the Bolivia mission ends. So is there also a major time break near the beginning of the movie?
    It's like the capturing of Mr White and the scenes in Sienna are their own selfcontained mission that straddles the beginning and end of two completely different films, without being actually part of either film's main story.
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    Oh I think there's definitely a gap between Venice and Mr White's house which could give us time for Mathis' recovery I guess. I can't remember if there's a gap between him going from London to America though: have his injuries from the Palio chase healed?
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 21,702MI6 Agent
    Good questions and points I haven't thought of before. I simply don't know the answers.
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    There's also an unspecified length of time needed for Bond to recover. Once Mathis is taken away, we're not told how long it is till Bond is mended enough to, ahem, provide Vesper with what she requires. (No, not the money)
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 21,702MI6 Agent
    Do you mean air gel? ? :)

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  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    :)) :)) :))
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    There's also an unspecified length of time needed for Bond to recover. Once Mathis is taken away, we're not told how long it is till Bond is mended enough to, ahem, provide Vesper with what she requires. (No, not the money)

    Yeah there's a certain amount of time at the clinic (don't we even see the seasons change?) and then they go away on their yacht together, which doesn't seem to be too long- they don't get out of Italy and M calls about the money and you can't believe she's left it for months and months, but long enough for Mathis to be interrogated and released.

    That is one really weird choice in Casino Royale: why did they make it look like Mr White's house was right next door to where Bond had been convalescing? Shoot it anywhere else, surely?
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 26,417Chief of Staff
    Barbel wrote:
    Sir Miles wrote:
    Barbel wrote:
    Re the editing- I do understand what the intention was. IMHO they fail in that intention. The prime exhibit for that statement is the scene of Mitchell's sudden turn and Mr White's escape. A first-time viewer which we all were initially comes away with the definite impression that M has been shot.

    I NEVER got the impression that M had been shot - and was surprised when people on here thought that she had been (on initial viewing)

    Is it possible (and I'm being serious) that you blinked at that exact moment, when M falls to the right? Or looked down at your popcorn?

    I know I’m old but that would have to be one hell of a slow blink :))

    I don’t buy popcorn, I’m too tight to part with any more money after buying the ticket :D
    YNWA 97
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    Time reference:
    https://greenwichmeantime.com/

    55 minutes till loading up
    65 minutes till watching
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    Sir Miles wrote:
    Barbel wrote:
    Sir Miles wrote:

    I NEVER got the impression that M had been shot - and was surprised when people on here thought that she had been (on initial viewing)

    Is it possible (and I'm being serious) that you blinked at that exact moment, when M falls to the right? Or looked down at your popcorn?

    I know I’m old but that would have to be one hell of a slow blink :))

    I don’t buy popcorn, I’m too tight to part with any more money after buying the ticket :D

    Just offering possibilities. How about this?

    (Onscreen)
    Mr White: ...and the truth is you don't even know we exist.
    M: Well, we do now, Mr. White, and we're quick learners.

    (Meanwhile, in the audience)
    Attractive Companion: (Whispering) Sir Miles! Sir Miles!
    Sir Miles: (Whispering) What is it?
    Attractive Companion: (Whispering) Who is this Mr White?
    Sir Miles: (Whispering) He was in the last movie, I'll explain later over drinks back at my place. Oh, look, James is chasing Mitchell.

    ...Your attention got diverted for about 0.003 seconds, which is how long most of the shots in any of the action scenes in this film last.
  • Shady TreeShady Tree London, UKPosts: 2,965MI6 Agent
    With this evening's viewing, is our starting point the fade of the Columbia Pictures logo? (I ask because Arnold's opening cue starts with that logo and plays over it, into the first shot.)
    Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 53 years.
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    Sorry, I am late.

    Please load the players and pause right after the Columbia logo

    We hit play in 4 minutes
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    CR06 had a valid artistic reason for not having a normal gunbarrel. SF had a feeble excuse. THIS one has no reason or excuse whatsoever for it not being there.
  • Shady TreeShady Tree London, UKPosts: 2,965MI6 Agent
    There as well.
    Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 53 years.
  • Thunderbird 2Thunderbird 2 East of Cardiff, Wales.Posts: 2,774MI6 Agent
    Gymkata wrote:
    Shady Tree wrote:
    With this evening's viewing, is our starting point the fade of the Columbia Pictures logo? (I ask because Arnold's opening cue starts with that logo and plays over it, into the first shot.)

    I'm paused on the black screen right after the Columbia logo.

    This is Thunderbird 2, I am Thunderbird Too.

    SABs on regular ready, I am Standing By....
    This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?
  • Shady TreeShady Tree London, UKPosts: 2,965MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    CR06 had a valid artistic reason for not having a normal gunbarrel. SF had a feeble excuse. THIS one has no reason or excuse whatsoever for it not being there.

    Agreed.
    Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 53 years.
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    And go!
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    Gymkata wrote:
    Barbel wrote:
    CR06 had a valid artistic reason for not having a normal gunbarrel. SF had a feeble excuse. THIS one has no reason or excuse whatsoever for it not being there.

    CR kinda has a gunbarrel sequence. At the end of the PTS, Craig shoots into the camera and you kinda have that moment.

    Yeah, I said "normal gunbarrel"
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    Music “Time To Get Out”
  • Shady TreeShady Tree London, UKPosts: 2,965MI6 Agent
    Gotta feel sorry for the lorry driver caught up in that.
    Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 53 years.
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    Wait a minute, my copy seeks to be skipping and jumping all over the… oh, right.
  • Golrush007Golrush007 South AfricaPosts: 3,418Quartermasters
    On first viewing it took me a while before I was actually sure that the film had really started. I really expected there to be a gunbarrel up front.
  • Shady TreeShady Tree London, UKPosts: 2,965MI6 Agent
    These cops are collateral damage too.
    Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 53 years.
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