2,501

Re: Bond 25 SPOILER news

SeanIsTheOnlyOne wrote:
BlindManBaldwin wrote:

The Craig films have always existed in a separate continuity from the rest of the films.

This was never officially said. Skyfall was even considered as the ultimate prequel to the movies of the classic period. The ending scene with Bond and Mallory in the old designed MI6 office shows it well.

It said for Casino Royale that they were starting over as if no Bond film had been made before. Craig's films are made to exist on their own, not as prequels to the other Bond films. Craig's films have sought to reintroduce the elements of the Connery Bond films moment by moment, not to set them up for Connery's Bond but to tell the story of Bond in a new way.

However, these elements do not all make sense on their own, nor do they make sense in the context of being prequels. They're really just fan service.

The events in the Craig Bond films that seem like they're setting up things for the Connery Bond films don't work. Q-Branch gave Bond the DB5 in Goldfinger. His personal car before that was a Bentley, not an Aston Martin, and Bond was disappointed at having to give up the Bentley before. Connery's Bond had a Beretta at the start of Dr No, while Craig never used one. Bond discovers Spectre in Dr. No, and meets Blofeld for the first time in both YOLT and OHMSS. Craig does both in Spectre. Bond is already over the hill in Skyfall, while in Dr. No he's an experience agent but still young. Mallory is not meant to be the same M that was in the Connery Bond films.

The DB5 with gadgets, PPK, SPECTRE, Blofeld and old-fashioned M's office are purely fan service. These things are shoehorned into the Craig films in nonsensical ways to excite old Bond fans.

2,502

Re: Bond 25 SPOILER news

Mattia De Varti wrote:

Please excuse me if there are mistakes. English is not my first language! ajb007/rolleyes
If you want the whole version with photos, please DM me. I'll send the PDF

Very concise predictions on the plot. I'm still iffy on exactly what Safin has planned and the ending because it seems a bit melodramatic, but overall, very good.

2,503

Re: Bond 25 SPOILER news

Matt S wrote:
SeanIsTheOnlyOne wrote:
BlindManBaldwin wrote:

The Craig films have always existed in a separate continuity from the rest of the films.

This was never officially said. Skyfall was even considered as the ultimate prequel to the movies of the classic period. The ending scene with Bond and Mallory in the old designed MI6 office shows it well.

It said for Casino Royale that they were starting over as if no Bond film had been made before. Craig's films are made to exist on their own, not as prequels to the other Bond films. Craig's films have sought to reintroduce the elements of the Connery Bond films moment by moment, not to set them up for Connery's Bond but to tell the story of Bond in a new way.

However, these elements do not all make sense on their own, nor do they make sense in the context of being prequels. They're really just fan service.

The events in the Craig Bond films that seem like they're setting up things for the Connery Bond films don't work. Q-Branch gave Bond the DB5 in Goldfinger. His personal car before that was a Bentley, not an Aston Martin, and Bond was disappointed at having to give up the Bentley before. Connery's Bond had a Beretta at the start of Dr No, while Craig never used one. Bond discovers Spectre in Dr. No, and meets Blofeld for the first time in both YOLT and OHMSS. Craig does both in Spectre. Bond is already over the hill in Skyfall, while in Dr. No he's an experience agent but still young. Mallory is not meant to be the same M that was in the Connery Bond films.

The DB5 with gadgets, PPK, SPECTRE, Blofeld and old-fashioned M's office are purely fan service. These things are shoehorned into the Craig films in nonsensical ways to excite old Bond fans.


That's why I said the timeline of the classic period was more or less relevant. The Craig era is a reboot with some kind of prequel atmosphere.
You're right about what you say but I really expect a different ending from the one suggested by Mattia De Varti.

Don't you think Madeleine sacrificing herself to save Mathilde, Bond killing Safin to avenge her, escaping from the lair with the child and finally explaining to her despite his love, sharing his life would be too dangerous for her is so emotional?
Furthermore, it would permit to make Bond return as the usual 007 for the next movies.

I'm not saying it is the only possible ending but this one seems much more interesting to me than the "easy one".

Last edited by SeanIsTheOnlyOne (28th Jun 2020 08:04)

2,504

Re: Bond 25 SPOILER news

Hi everyone,

I had a wonderful debate last week with three very good friends of mines who also are huge Bond fans. Two of them are pretty sure Bond will be killed off in NTTD. This rumour is not brand new and I know this topic has already been discussed but not with real arguments.

I officially ask you guys: do you thing Craig's Bond will die and if yes, why would EON dare such a thing which is complete nonsense to me ?

One of the elements I like the most when I watch a Bond film is the fact I know from the beginning Bond is going to survive. I want to see him kicking the villain's ass, using cool gadgets, seducing beautiful ladies with charm and charisma as he used to do on screen between 1962 and 2002. The only way to identify with the character is making him a heroe who struggles but finally succeeds. People who discovered Bond during their childhood perfetly know what I mean.

If Bond is killed off, it remains nothing except frustration ans sadness. There is no reward as a fan to see a legendary character dying just to show nothing lasts forever. Disney already destroyed my childhood with their shitty SW trilogy, I hope EON will not strike it down with killing my all-time favourite character.

Just be honest fellows, do you really think such an ending is unavoidable ?

Last edited by SeanIsTheOnlyOne (Today 10:39)

2,505

Re: Bond 25 SPOILER news

"Just be honest fellows, do you really think such an ending is unavoidable ?"

I don't believe such an ending is unavoidable. While I think its possible for Bond films to have downbeat endings- see OHMSS, for example- outright killing Bond off would leave a nasty taste in the audience' mouth and divide fans.  Having Bond die would be massively disappointing, as it would end the Craig era on a low note as well as failing to deliver a triumphant return for 007 after a five year break. For me, no creative reason could justify such a move. Even the darkest Bond film of all, Licence to Kill, finished with Bond getting the girl.  Unfortunately, given the Craig era's tendencies towards psychological melodrama, I am admittedly rather worried that Eon don't understand why killing Bond would be a bad idea. What do others think?

2,506

Re: Bond 25 SPOILER news

SeanIsTheOnlyOne wrote:

...I officially ask you guys: do you thing Craig's Bond will die and if yes, why would EON dare such a thing which is complete nonsense to me ?

One of the elements I like the most when I watch a Bond film is the fact I know from the beginning Bond is going to survive. I want to see him kicking the villain's ass, using cool gadgets, seducing beautiful ladies with charm and charisma as he used to do on screen between 1962 and 2002. The only way to identify with the character is making him a heroe who struggles but finally succeeds. People who discovered Bond during their childhood perfetly know what I mean.

If Bond is killed off, it remains nothing except frustration ans sadness. There is no reward as a fan to see a legendary character dying just to show nothing lasts forever. Disney already destroyed my childhood with their shitty SW trilogy, I hope EON will not strike it down with killing my all-time favourite character.

Just be honest fellows, do you really think such an ending is unavoidable ?

Logan certainly managed to successfully pull off the whole “ending with the death of the legendary lead character, that has been played by the same actor for many films over many years” thing. It was definitely a satisfying conclusion in my opinion and did show that nothing/no one (no even the un-killable Wolverine) can last forever. Even with Wolverine/Logan’s death, and the popularity of Jackman in the role, I’m sure we’ll get a reboot of sorts of the character with another actor at some point in the future.

So a few similarities with Bond there...but do I think they’ll go that way with Craig’s Bond in NTTD—no I do not. I guess it would be a real indisputable conclusion to the arc that started in CR, and we did already get the happy “off into the sunset with his love” conclusion in SP, so having that again in this would be a bit of a repeat...but I still don’t think they’ll kill Bond. Maybe Tracy/Madeleine, or even their possible child—that would sure be a shocking end!

If they’re going to stick with a modern Bond in the next film, whenever that may be, how are they going to play it? Just ignore it completely and have the next Bond start from scratch again like CR or like GE where it starts early but not at the beginning of his career? Will the casual audience then ask the question “Wait wasn’t Bond killed in the last one? How is he alive again?”.

Last edited by JTM (Today 11:22)

2,507

Re: Bond 25 SPOILER news

Quick thoughts on the possibility that they kill Bond in NTTD:

1.) For all the fantasy in the Bond films, he is supposed to be a real man. He doesn't have an adamantium skeleton and hang out with a guy who can shoot laser beams from his eyes and a girl who's some sort of psychic telekinetic goddess. The Craig films especially have leaned into gritty realness. In our world dead means dead. You can kill Wolverine and Superman and probably even Iron Man and bring him back and people will accept it because it's a frigging comic book movie. As JTM said, if Bond dies at the end of NTTD, are people going to leave happy? Will they want to see it again? Because repeat business is how you get to $1 billion.

2.) The defining quality of Bond is that he survives. No matter what's against him, he finds a way. And he comes back. Years ago I was in a theater and at the end of the movie, when the words came up JAMES BOND WILL RETURN, people actually clapped. Killing him isn't the realization of his story or its inevitable denouement; it's a rejection of the character.

3.) In 2021 or whatever, the pressure to reboot Bond as a woman or a person of color or gay will be overwhelming. Sure, you can do him as a white British male, but you'll be starting with a ton of (in my mind, deeply unfair) criticism. Good luck, new actor! Best wishes, EON or whoever's producing the new series!

Having said all this, I have heard lots of people in the know who've seen call sheets and have sources saying they think it's inevitable Bond dies. Maybe EON is set on killing the goose that laid so many golden eggs.

Last edited by Cheverian (Today 12:29)

2,508

Re: Bond 25 SPOILER news

SeanIsTheOnlyOne wrote:

Hi everyone,

I had a wonderful debate last week with three very good friends of mines who also are huge Bond fans. Two of them are pretty sure Bond will be killed off in NTTD. This rumour is not brand new and I know this topic has already been discussed but not with real arguments.

I officially ask you guys: do you thing Craig's Bond will die and if yes, why would EON dare such a thing which is complete nonsense to me ?

Whilst I don’t believe the film will end showing Bond dead, I do think it will end with you thinking ‘is he, or not?

I’m not sure why you would think it’s “complete nonsense” ? As this is DC’s last bond film, Eon could just decide to kill Bond off (something DC has fancied all along apparently) then just move on with the next actor...seems simple enough to me and it would tie up DC’s tenure as a ‘self contained’ set of five movies.

YNWA 96

The Unbearables

2,509

Re: Bond 25 SPOILER news

Sir Miles wrote:
SeanIsTheOnlyOne wrote:

Hi everyone,

I had a wonderful debate last week with three very good friends of mines who also are huge Bond fans. Two of them are pretty sure Bond will be killed off in NTTD. This rumour is not brand new and I know this topic has already been discussed but not with real arguments.

I officially ask you guys: do you thing Craig's Bond will die and if yes, why would EON dare such a thing which is complete nonsense to me ?

Whilst I don’t believe the film will end showing Bond dead, I do think it will end with you thinking ‘is he, or not?

I’m not sure why you would think it’s “complete nonsense” ? As this is DC’s last bond film, Eon could just decide to kill Bond off (something DC has fancied all along apparently) then just move on with the next actor...seems simple enough to me and it would tie up DC’s tenure as a ‘self contained’ set of five movies.

One problem with this is that many people don’t get that Craig’s films stand alone. They missed the fact that CR was a reboot and not a prequel or continuation. They’re going to see it as the death of a character from 25 films, or they’re going to wonder how he can die only to come back in Dr. No. It’s important to consider how the audience believes things along with the reality of the situation.

2,510

Re: Bond 25 SPOILER news

New stills

https://i.postimg.cc/Fd4MWxTd/Ec-F-EJu-XQAYmx-a.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/xXWDHQHP/Ec-F9-Ul-WXYAE8c-IT.jpg