I enjoyed Spectre of Defeat's original post and agree with much of it. However... while films like Lethal Weapon and Die Hard are said to be bloodthirsty and gritty, to my mind they simply brought the action movie into the present. More importantly, and crucially even, they had leading men in Willis and Gibson who could do witty one-liners that were also genuinely funny. Dalton really did not do that and no attempt at that could make it work.
So cinemagoers checked out his first film, saw that was the case, and only did the second one out of patriotic duty. A bit like voters going for Corbyn the first time round, second time round, nah. You lost us.
Along with that, Dalton did not seem like a young stud against the old Moore. His look was outmoded - like the 70s Gareth Hunt from The New Avengers. He did not look like the short haired square jawed stars of the late 80s - Arnie, Bruce, Mel. His torso did not look athletic and when he got his kit off in this there was no narcissism and nothing to admire. He was not ripped.
On top of all that, Die Hard and Lethal Weapon were really more like Bond films than the Bond films were. Both had better Bond villains, both played by British actors. The latter followed the set piece rule. The former looked great, sort of noirish
These films reinvented the action genre and how badly that was needed. In contrast, the Bond films still had John Glen and had been bamboozled by the fanboys saying, hey make one like Fleming! Make it serious! But without that knowing humour, it was thought back in the 50s that Fleming's stuff was a B-movie thing, the kind Rank pictures did. Saltzman and Broccoli added the knowing humour, so Dr No was above the pack. LTK omitted that - so it was a B-movie.
One final point, In another thread I'll maybe talk about the three-card trick that most Bond films require. It basically distracts you from the fact that the plot is a bit pants and has been seen before - it's money for old rope.
Even Die Hard does that. It's not just about terrorists in a skyscraper. It's set at night. Willis is a New York cop in LA - fish out of water. He's there by accident. He's trying to win back his wife - who is hostage. A white cop strikes up a poignant rapport with black cop outside. There's a lot going on. It juggles plates.
In many Bond films there's a subtext going on to make it more interesting, it's a distraction technique. LTK really doesn't have that. So if you don't go for the whole revenge plot against Leiter - never, frankly, a consistent and successful Bond character - then you don't really have much to go on. LTK is Bond with his pants down.
Last edited by Napoleon Plural (1st Jul 2020 20:12)
"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."
Roger Moore 1927-2017
