When did Bond films stop being family oriented?

opalopal Posts: 21MI6 Agent
When did Bond films stop being family oriented?

I would say with Licence to Kill. Up till then the Bond films were an extravaganza of stunts, good soundtracks, humour, glamour and escapism, that the whole family could enjoy.

Now, they are just spy thrillers, with violence.
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Comments

  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 21,702MI6 Agent
    I'd say the level of family content vs voilent thriller has always changed with the times and actors. The movies started up as thrillers for adults in DN and FRWL. They moved gradually towards more family content during Connery's tenure and that tendency increased with Moore. OHMSS was a serious thriller made more for adults while DAD was pretty silly again. The Bond movies will probably never become more family friendly than they were during Moore, but Roger himself felt that they last few were too violent for him. The massacre in the mine in AVTAK is the obvious example of this. TLD was sort of a transision between AVTAK and LTK, perhaps the most adult oriented of them all. Brosnan found a middle ground between family and adult in tone, in my opinion. CR and QoS became serious and adult in tone, closer to LTK than MR. Later Craig has moved a little towards more humor and family content, but not a lot.
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    Yeah I think Spectre you could watch with kids from nine or so up. The most scary bit is probably Mr White blowing his top.
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    Young kids, sure, but it's not a lot worse than the Goldfinger laser table. It's fairly clean torture, not like the CR scene.
  • James SuzukiJames Suzuki New ZealandPosts: 2,406MI6 Agent
    I watched Goldfinger laser table when I was nine and it never bothered me.
    I watch Spectre now in my 20s and the drilling scene disturbs me.
    My mind went to Goldeneye. There was some violence in early connery sure, but by the time you reach Brosnan you have the Onnatopp scenes which were definitely not designed for anyone who hadn't been through puberty.
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  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 21,702MI6 Agent
    We have to remember that GF and SPECTRE were realeased in very different times. Back in the 60's they weren't even allowed to show toilets flushing and double beds. There was more freedom in the 1960's, but we have to remember family oriented now and then were very different things.
    I also ask: should Bond movies be family oriented?
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    Number24 wrote:
    I also ask: should Bond movies be family oriented?

    Exactly!

    While the movies have not been as brutal and sexist as the novels, the movies where directed to a more adult audience right from the beginning.
    They became more compatible with the younger folks during the Moore age a decade later, but imo the question is missing the point.
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 21,702MI6 Agent
    Yes, I find the question in the thread title .... questionable. :v
    At least the way I interpret it, Bodn movies should be family oriented and they were untiul they stopped being that. I think every part of that is wrong. Bond shouldn't be family oriented and the level of adultnes has always varied.
  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 3,907MI6 Agent
    When did Bond films start being family oriented?

    When Dr No came out it set new standards for sex and violence in the cinema.
    It was not a family film. There were plenty of other films for families like Mary Poppins, but Dr No was escapist wish fulfillment for grownups.

    A decade later when Moore took over, the films were something parents took their kids to, an old fashioned nostalgic romp. If you wanted cinematic violence, there were films like Deliverance or Texas Chain Saw Massacre. Arguably Dr No opened the door for this type of graphic disturbing film, but somewhere over the last decade James Bond style violence got left behind and was now seen as kid-friendly and harmless.
    And if you wanted graphic sex in the cinema, there was anew generation of more explicit films for grownups, in "specialised" theatres and even for a while in trendy mainstream theatres.


    Definitely Licence to Kill was a change in tone, back to images of violence only a grownup should see. It may still be the most disturbing film in the series in terms of atrocities to the human body.

    Somebody above suggests Die Another Die as a return to Moore-era family friendly fare. Maybe the violence is more cartoonish, but Halle Berry fakes an orgasm, and Brosnan grunts and rolls his eyes then relaxes. This is the first naturalistic depiction of sex we've actually seen in 20 films. Coitus in Bond films had previously been represented as two adults lounging round in a strategically placed bedsheet drinking champagne and making nudge-nudge-wink-wink puns.

    but sure it depends what you want your kids to see. If i had kids I'd want them to enjoy at least a decade of innocence before exposing them to nightmare inducing imagery.

    Mr Whites suicide in SPECTRE shocked me!
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    Number24 wrote:
    Yes, I find the question in the thread title .... questionable. :v
    At least the way I interpret it, Bodn movies should be family oriented and they were untiul they stopped being that. I think every part of that is wrong. Bond shouldn't be family oriented and the level of adultnes has always varied.

    Well I got into them as a kid. Apparently Pierce Brosnan first saw Goldfinger when he was 11 or so, it's a story he hardly ever tells.
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 21,702MI6 Agent
    There is of course the question of what a "kid" is. I'm not saying one should wait until you're 16 or 18. I'm just saying the Bond movies shouldn't be made to fit a very young audience. Bond is about a hard-drinking, womanizing assassin.
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    Ehh. Or he's a sportscar-drivin', gadget-usin', cliff-parachutin' hero. Both interpretations are valid.

    Didn't most of us get into Bond when we were kids? What age were you, No.24?

    I think I read the books when I was a teen and haven't looked at them much since because they're silly.
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 21,702MI6 Agent
    TV never showed Bond movies (socialist hell, I know) and I didn't start renting VCRs until I was about 16, sovery late I guess.
  • sirsosirso Posts: 209MI6 Agent
    I saw Live and Let Die first when I was ten in 1973 (I must be the only oldie in this forum), and the pre-credit scene was fairly violent for a 10 year old, who up till then had only seen the sort of violence on TV shows like The Avenegers or The Persuaders, which was just slapstick.

    Also, the killing of Rosie Carver in it was shocking to me, as was the general atmosphere and voodoo element.

    The only family aspect was the boat chase and Sheriff J.W. Pepper.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    The early Bonds were considered
    Adult movies, with several countries
    Censoring parts. Such as the train
    Fight in FRWL, but from GF on they
    seemed to become less violent.
    Even DAF seemed to have set the
    Template for the Moore Bonds, becoming
    A family night out movie.
    I agree that with CR they made Bond
    Dangerous again ( after trying with
    LTK ) although with Skyfall and Spectre
    They seem to be moving back to a family
    Audience, as more bums on seats means bigger profits.
    I too remember LALD in 73, so you're
    Not alone sirso ;)
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  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 3,907MI6 Agent
    emtiem wrote:
    Didn't most of us get into Bond when we were kids? .
    The Spy Who Loved Me, when I was eleven years old.
    It was like a Tintin adventure, except for boys who were just starting to think about girls.
    It is probably is the most cartoonish of all the films, but... there was all that cleavage!!
  • Charmed & DangerousCharmed & Dangerous Posts: 7,358MI6 Agent
    emtiem wrote:
    I think I read the books when I was a teen and haven't looked at them much since because they're silly.

    Interesting the interpretations we all have. Imho the films are sillier than the books which inspired them. I read the Fleming novels at school and have picked them up again over the years, and always thoroughly enjoy them. -{
    "How was your lamb?" "Skewered. One sympathises."
  • bosoxfanbosoxfan Posts: 611MI6 Agent
    I have always thought that DC is least promiscuous Bond of all, on several occasions he has walked out on his supporting Bond girls, Mexico City, Bahamas, etc. I'm trying to think of what in Casino Royal would make it family unfriendly, with the exception of the torture scene at the end, I don't recall too much else. QOS seemed much less family friendly, Skyfall and Spectre kind of in between. I guess it also depends on the age of your family.
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    emtiem wrote:
    I think I read the books when I was a teen and haven't looked at them much since because they're silly.

    Interesting the interpretations we all have. Imho the films are sillier than the books which inspired them.

    I guess it's how you look at it. I think you could say that Roger's films -which put their tongue very much in their cheek and let you know they think it's very silly- are more grown-up about it than the books which treat all of this nonsense about giant squids and men with metal hands terribly earnestly and seriously :)
    bosoxfan wrote:
    I have always thought that DC is least promiscuous Bond of all, on several occasions he has walked out on his supporting Bond girls, Mexico City, Bahamas, etc. I'm trying to think of what in Casino Royal would make it family unfriendly, with the exception of the torture scene at the end, I don't recall too much else.

    I guess when it starts to get into the stairwell fight and how terrified that makes Vesper, it starts to get a bit more viceral and potentially scary for a kid to watch.
  • GrindelwaldGrindelwald Posts: 1,294MI6 Agent
    Number24 wrote:
    TV never showed Bond movies (socialist hell, I know) and I didn't start renting VCRs until I was about 16, sovery late I guess.

    Used to record them on TV3 early-mid 90s - back when TV3 was actually good , sigh
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 21,702MI6 Agent
    Number24 wrote:
    TV never showed Bond movies (socialist hell, I know) and I didn't start renting VCRs until I was about 16, sovery late I guess.

    Used to record them on TV3 early-mid 90s - back when TV3 was actually good , sigh

    I could (and can) only get NRK due to all the mountains around here. :#
  • lueth2048lueth2048 Posts: 120MI6 Agent
    I never thought of the Bond films as family oriented.
  • HowardBHowardB USAPosts: 2,736MI6 Agent
    I guess I'm one of the living fossils around here since I saw my first Bond film, Goldfinger in a real cinema in 1964 and subsequently played catch-up shortly thereafter with a re-release double bill of DN and FRWL and have seen every Bond film upon its initial release in
    the cinema since. DN was pretty daring for its time in its frank portrayal of sex but the big shocker was the scene where Bond kills Prof Dent. Prior to DN, film heroes did not execute villains, much less one with an empty gun and shoot them multiple times and in the back. It still stands as one of the most violently jarring portrayals of cold blooded violence ever put on the screen. GF, while the blueprint for the "epic" Bond still has some pretty nasty moments of violence, in particular in the PTS when Bond uses the woman as a shield against his attacker and then proceeds to electrocute his would be assassin by throwing a fan into the bath tub. Of course, one cannot forget my favorite as an 8 yr old seeing Bond in TB pinning one of Largo's henchmen to a Palm Tree with a well placed shot through the neck with a spear gun. All good clean family fun, IMO. :)) {[]
  • The Domino EffectThe Domino Effect Posts: 3,631MI6 Agent
    I guess it also depends on your definition of a "family film". There are films made for families (someone mentioned Mary Poppins earlier) and films that are not intended to be family films but which families will watch together. Many Bond films fit into the latter category, none fit into the former.
  • Agent EternalAgent Eternal Athens, GreecePosts: 157MI6 Agent
    HowardB wrote:
    seeing Bond in TB pinning one of Largo's henchmen to a Palm Tree with a well placed shot through the neck with a spear gun.

    Memories can be deceiving. It was not as violent as a spear in the neck.


    He-Got-The-Point.jpg
  • HowardBHowardB USAPosts: 2,736MI6 Agent
    HowardB wrote:
    seeing Bond in TB pinning one of Largo's henchmen to a Palm Tree with a well placed shot through the neck with a spear gun.

    Memories can be deceiving. It was not as violent as a spear in the neck.


    He-Got-The-Point.jpg
    You are absolutely correct and despite my living fossil status I have seen TB enough times over the years that I should have remembered that correctly. Still one hell of a classic Bond moment especially given the absolute ultimate cool displayed by Connery in that scene and of course the pun afterwards....and of course beautifully edited by Peter Hunt. "Violent and sadistic" was a description many critics used during that era to describe the first four Connery Bonds.
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,239MI6 Agent
    The OP has it correct.
    GE was more fun than LTK but can never really fill the Bank Holiday Monday Bond slot and none of them subsequently do.
    It's a shame because really some of them should have, at least one or two. But they were trying to distance the films from the previous family fun stuff, even toning down the colour I think.
    Fans of Spectre forget the eye-gouging scene which is cut from TV prints, along with Craig's gruelling kill in Haiti (the cuts improve both films greatly imo).
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • hehadlotsofgutshehadlotsofguts Durham England Posts: 2,107MI6 Agent
    I don't think the Bond films are for kids. They can watch them with adult supervision.

    Dr No was basically boiled alive in his own nuclear reactor. Even before LTK, there was at least one death where it would appear gruesome. The snowplough in OHMSS, the KGB agent being thrown into the propeller and there's even a deleted scene in The Living Daylights, where it was implied that Saunders was bisected with the glass door.

    I don't think the sex scenes have been expicit before Goldeneye
    Have you ever heard of the Emancipation Proclamation?"

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  • GrindelwaldGrindelwald Posts: 1,294MI6 Agent
    First i saw was YOLT in '88 (shouldve told Dor her death scene scared me , bet shed chuckle :))
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    Is there anyone here who saw their first Bond or became a fan after the age of 18 though? It appeals to kids.
  • SpectreOfDefeatSpectreOfDefeat Posts: 404MI6 Agent
    I think the Bond films appeal to children at first and then stay with you through life. The only films where the violence bothered me as a child were LTK for fairly obvious reasons, the fight in the safehouse and the fake assassination of Pushkin in TLD, and the killing of the British sailors in TND. Most of the other Bond films, pre-Craig, I thought were relatively tame from an older child's point of view.

    "The spectre of defeat..."

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