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Topic: P99 or PPK, whats ur choice?

ever since TND's i think the P99 suited Bond better as it was more practical then the under powered PPK even though it is sleek and small but now Bond is facing more advanced weapons and needs more firepower and rounds, in GE Bond was way outgunned when up against 006's guards in Cuba as he only had 8 rounds to put out, and as opposed to the stleath boat in TND's when the P99 Bond had lasted mostly the whole fight b4 he dropped it when it wasnt even out yet...ur thoughts?

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Re: P99 or PPK, whats ur choice?

It is easier to conceal a small gun and many magazines than a large gun and fewer magazines. Nevertheless, I like both the PPK and P99- they can both be used for different purposes.

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Re: P99 or PPK, whats ur choice?

yea thats true nightshooter

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Re: P99 or PPK, whats ur choice?

I like the PPK, mainly because it sounds good when saying it!  Listen to when Brosnan points the gun at Coltrane's head in Goldeneye-"Walther PPK", and the fact that Bond has used it longer too.

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Re: P99 or PPK, whats ur choice?

In my mind a "secret agent" should carry a PPK, which can be concealed while in normal day to day duties and while undercover.  However, if your expect trouble and are going to be in combat dress, the P99 would be fine.

Last edited by Barry Nelson (28th Jul 2006 00:52)

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Re: P99 or PPK, whats ur choice?

PPK for dinner
P99 for romping thru the jungle
ajb007/biggrin
ajb007/martini

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Re: P99 or PPK, whats ur choice?

Barry Nelson wrote:

In my mind a "secret agent" should carry a PPK, which can be concealed while in normal day to day duties and while undercover.  However, if your expect trouble and are going to be in combat dress, the P99 would be fine.


Complete agreement  ajb007/cheers

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Re: P99 or PPK, whats ur choice?

clum wrote:

PPK for dinner
P99 for romping thru the jungle
ajb007/biggrin
ajb007/martini

Precisely!

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Re: P99 or PPK, whats ur choice?

I like the P99 (i have a toy replica) but is too big, i mean, i can´t figure how to put it under a Tux. so, the PPK is the choice for undercover work.
Now, i haven´t read Gardner books, but i´ve heard about a ASP 9mm, reccomended by the same expert who talk fleming about the PPK.

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Re: P99 or PPK, whats ur choice?

Johmss wrote:

....Now, i haven´t read Gardner books, but i´ve heard about a ASP 9mm, reccomended by the same expert who talk fleming about the PPK.

Are you sure?  I don't remember the ASP being recommended by Boothroyd.

And I stand to be corrected on this, but I was under the impression that the ASP was a later adaption of the Browning.

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Re: P99 or PPK, whats ur choice?

The Asp was a re-manufacture of a S&W 39.  And yes it was Geoffrey Boothroyd that recommended that Bond should use the Asp when Gardner was researching.

If you click on the link in my signature, you can read more info on the Asp and why Boothroyd recommended it.

Last edited by Asp9mm (9th Sep 2006 21:17)

..................http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a77/darkcrown_1969/Asp9mmSIG-1-2.jpg...............

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Re: P99 or PPK, whats ur choice?

Asp9mm wrote:

The Asp was a re-manufacture of a S&W 39.  And yes it was Geoffrey Boothroyd that recommended that Bond should use the Asp when Gardner was researching.

If you click on the link in my signature, you can read more info on the Asp and why Boothroyd recommended it.

Thanks ASP, very interesting, I didn't recall Boothroyd being involved with Gardner, I was thinking back to Fleming.

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Re: P99 or PPK, whats ur choice?

Personally I'll take the P99. The PPK looks like it's designed to be stuck in a purse now

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Re: P99 or PPK, whats ur choice?

u can see though that Brosnan rarely has his P99 in its holster, but rather tucked into his pants as its a fairly big gun and is more concealable that way

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Re: P99 or PPK, whats ur choice?

I agree with Walther P99's last comments, as Brosnan does tuck the P99 into his trousers.

  As for my choice, I would have to choose the PPK. I have used both, for this exact reason, and I therefore will lay out my pro's and con's for each, and compare mine to Bond's choices.

  P99: It is a more powerful gun, even though the same caliber and the power is not that much  more noticable. (Bear in mind this is coming from a guy who carries a Colt US issue 1911A1, or a Colt 10mm Delta Elite, both huge firearms compared to Bond's choices). The P99 is larger, and more difficult to draw from the concealed position(let us assume that the weapon is in the typical Connery shoulder holster under a jacket).

  Second, to play devil's advocate with the clothier, no man with bespoke suits would tell the tailor to add more roominess into the jacket, because he carries a firearm, not even Bond, because the tailor would probably not believe him as guns are illegal in England, the tailor might have a difficult time believing he is fitting up an MI6 agent.) Just to play devil's advocate, no long threads on legality of firearms, please!

  Third, the P99 handle would allow for easier comfort when recoil is factored in, but would also help the gripping of the weapon.

  The PPK is a favourite of mine, as the gun is smaller, fits my jackets better without having a bulge, like the P99. And for those adrenaline junkies who shoot guns enough to sa "Well, the PPK only carries seven bullets and one in the chamber" all I have to say is EBAY! They sell ten round magazines for the PPK and FireStorm (a PPK lookalike), and they also fit into a concealed mag pouch.

  The PPK also has a decocker, which Bond might enjoy, I can't remember if the P99 has one, too. Also, the PPK can be concealed in the armpit area of the jacket, or at the ankle, just like the traditional snug .38's cops used to carry. Try that with a P99. One more thing, we see Connery Bond in several films either withdrawing the weapon from it's holster, or simply holding it in his hand, and putting it into his trouser pocket (FRWL train scene, DNin blue pant I believe, and TB somewhere in their). Get the picture, almost the same amount of power, simpler clean-up after combat. The only true disadvantage that I cannot stand is that the PPK does not have a large enough ejection port, where the shell flies out, so it will sometimes jam.

  The other thing that people are forgetting is that James Bond is supposed to be James Bond. Hwat i mean by that ridiculous comment  would be reading FRWL, the book tells us that Bond is supposed to be a 1st Class military expert in small arms, and is supposed to be very good with a handgun, and very good with a knife, as well as boxing and wrestling.He is a well seasoned, weather beaten man who is an exceptionally fine shot with his preferred firearm (even though someone always takes his gun away in the movies, he'd have to learn a new gun every time.

  There you have it. Straight from the horse's mouth.

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Re: P99 or PPK, whats ur choice?

I couldn't have put it better Jones, apart from the various fact you have completely wrong...

Last edited by Asp9mm (1st Oct 2006 21:55)

..................http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a77/darkcrown_1969/Asp9mmSIG-1-2.jpg...............

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Re: P99 or PPK, whats ur choice?

yea good post Jones, i just like the P99 cause it holds more and holds better in a firefight, even though bond isnt a soldier

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Re: P99 or PPK, whats ur choice?

Jones wrote:

....   P99: It is a more powerful gun, even though the same caliber and the power is not that much  more noticable. (Bear in mind this is coming from a guy who carries a Colt US issue 1911A1, or a Colt 10mm Delta Elite, both huge firearms compared to Bond's choices). The P99 is larger, and more difficult to draw from the concealed position(let us assume that the weapon is in the typical Connery shoulder holster under a jacket).

Actually the PPK used by 007 is a 7.65mm, not a 9mm, although why Geoffrey Boothroyd never went for the 9mm I don't know, perhaps less magazine capacity?  I can't remember which film, but I think that Brosnan's holster is one that holds the P99 horizontally as opposed to the conventional Connery type which holds his PPK vertically.

Jones wrote:

....     The PPK also has a decocker, which Bond might enjoy, I can't remember if the P99 has one, too. Also, the PPK can be concealed in the armpit area of the jacket, or at the ankle, just like the traditional snug .38's cops used to carry. Try that with a P99. One more thing, we see Connery Bond in several films either withdrawing the weapon from it's holster, or simply holding it in his hand, and putting it into his trouser pocket (FRWL train scene, DNin blue pant I believe, and TB somewhere in their). Get the picture, almost the same amount of power, simpler clean-up after combat.

Yes the P99 does have a de-cocker too, mounted on top of the slide.  Connery puts his PPK into the back pocket of his trousers, whilst on the beach at Crab Quay, but I can't remember where he puts it in TB.

On a side note, I remember reading that Walther decided not to take any legal action against the Bond producers when 007 dropped his PPK at Palmyra and it discharged, something which I believe they claim could not have happened (due to all the safety systems built into the PPK) in those circumstances.

I too prefer the PPK, although the P99 (coming 2nd) does have its uses.

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Re: P99 or PPK, whats ur choice?

I'm not arguing that with you, I'm glad to see you prefer the PPK, and the P99 is very useful. However, if I knew I were stepping into a firefight, I would carry none other than the Colt Delta Elite, with a 10 round mag, because the 10mm is a superlative cartridge, and holds more power, but between the PPK and P99 in a combat zone, you would be either nolstagic or insane to carry the PPK.

  One reason aside from the power, capacity, tenacity, and ubiquitous guns being debated, the PPK and other PPK-like firearms have a smaller ejection port (hole) in the weapon, and I only mention this becasue (HONESTLY, I SWEAR TO GOD!!!!) Last night I was shooting in my usual Tuesday competitions, and I was shooting in the concealed category, where the rules are all guns must be not longer than so many inches, the PPK being the largest conealed gun allowed. Well, out of twenty five shots with five targets and ten bowling pins at 25 yards, I went to shoot, and the forth shot jammed on me. The bullet would not come out of the ejection port, and I had to drop the magazine and then take the bullet out, and reload the magazine, pull the slide back, and then fire again. Eight or nine shots later it jammed again, and I repeated the process.
  The point was, on both of those occasions, I had 'limpwristed' the gun, not holding it strongly enough for the recoil to have it's toll, and the bullet ejection method took about eight seconds, making me lose to second place. With a P99, this would never have happened because the ejection port is larger than the PPK's, and it will allow a loaded bullet to pass through, whereas the PPK will not.

  Jes' a thought....

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Re: P99 or PPK, whats ur choice?

I recommend having the feed ramp polished and the barrel throated on your PPK.  I had it done with mine and it's NEVER had a problem.  Cheers.

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Re: P99 or PPK, whats ur choice?

This message to Mark Hazard, the PPK used in DN is indeed a 7.65mm, which is a .380, which is also referred to as the 9mm short. I just wanted to correct the notion of the different numbers. I know a lot of people whom have never fired a gun can get the numbers confused, but the math shows it all true. A 7.65 is a 9mm short, or a .380.

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Re: P99 or PPK, whats ur choice?

How is 7.65mm 9mm ,7.65 is .32 and 9mm short is .380ACP two completly different rounds.The Walther PP and PPK went out of use by British police/security services following the attempted kidnapping of Princess Anne in the 1970s when her bodyguards PP had a stoppage.The PP/PPK is a good gun but its now an almost 70yrs old design and need lots of maintenance.I carried a PP for personal protection and was happy when it was replaced by a .357 Magnum Ruger which has now been replaced by a 9mm Parabellum Glock 17.Oh and the PP/PPK does not have a"decocker" the safety catch lowers the hammer and depending if its left on or not the first round is fired double action or the safety has to be disengaged then fired double action .With the stoppage you are describing have the slide checked for cracks as that was a major cause of similar stoppages with ours and led to their replacement.

Last edited by sniperUK (18th Sep 2006 20:05)

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Re: P99 or PPK, whats ur choice?

Ditto what snipes said, 9mm is .380 and 7.65mm is .32, two entirely different calibres.  This is why the PPK mag of the .380/9mmshort holds six rounds and the 7.65mm/.32 holds seven.  Predominantly the .32 has been used in the Bond films, however in TMWTGG you can clearly tell its a .380 as the bore is noticeably larger.  This also explains Scaramangas line about Bonds six to his one.

..................http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a77/darkcrown_1969/Asp9mmSIG-1-2.jpg...............

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Re: P99 or PPK, whats ur choice?

sniperUK wrote:

How is 7.65mm 9mm ,7.62 is .32 and 9mm short is .380ACP two completly different rounds.The Walther PP and PPK went out of use by British police/security services following the attempted kidnapping of Princess Anne in the 1970s when her bodyguards PP had a stoppage.The PP/PPK is a good gun but its now an almost 70yrs old design and need lots of maintenance.I carried a PP for personal protection and was happy when it was replaced by a .357 Magnum Ruger which has now been replaced by a 9mm Parabellum Glock 17.Oh and the PP/PPK does not have a"decocker" the safety catch lowers the hammer and depending if its left on or not the first round is fired double action or the safety has to be disengaged then fired double action .

  It was a mistake dueto that I've carried both a .380 and a 9 short for several years, and carried both at the same time. A quick story, I actually had to use my sidearms and when reloading in a hostile zone, behind a fortified cover, I grabbed the wrong magaizne and tried to put into the wrong firearm and was nicked by a bullet from an enemy. So, even with that, and several years later, I still confuse the two, as it is a common misconception, being that both of my carry guns were a .32 and a 9 short, trying to reload whilst jamming the wrong clip into the wrong firearm, you can figure the rest out.

AND, the safety switch in your PPK which does lower the hammer without striking the firing pin, this causes the firearm to 'de-https://www.reference.com/pets-animals/male-chicken-c' thus henceforth referred to as the decocker, although it would not be technically minded so by looking in comparison to the Bersa or Firestorm PPK knockoffs, but with the safety switch still serving to return the hammer back to its neutral stage, it would be referred more laymanlikely as a decocker.

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Re: P99 or PPK, whats ur choice?

Walther refer to it as the safety catch ,my firearms instructors call it a safety catch and the manuals refer to it as a safety catch so its a safety catch.9 Short is .380ACP.

Last edited by sniperUK (18th Sep 2006 20:11)