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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

Barry Nelson wrote:

An in shape Connery would have been great in OHMSS, DAF Connery would not.

He was a bloated oaf in that movie. Looks like he feels it too in every scene.

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

mrwoodpigeon wrote:

He was a bloated oaf in that movie. Looks like he feels it too in every scene.

He wasn't that bad. ajb007/mad ajb007/wink

"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

The Cat wrote:

Watch how you word your statements. In the beginning, you said that according to wiki, Connery left the role because it wasn't close to the source material. While this is not true, it's not implied in the wikipedia quote

the 2nd sentence of the passage I quotes alleges just that

caractacus potts quoting Wikipeida wrote:

Connery has also stated that he did not like the direction the Bond series was heading in, feeling that the filmmakers were straying too far from the source material.

Looks like bolllocks to me, Ive never seen such motives attributed to Connery before and think this is another example of why you cant trust Wikipedia: any old person can write whatever they want, whether or not they have a clue what theyre talking about
a few folks above argued the increasing formulization was due to Connerys personal style, and that sounds more likely: there was stuff in the novels that just wouldnt work with the Connery persona, not just Tracys death but the torture scenes, the moments of selfdoubt, the constant muttered expletives, the fact FlemingBond actually falls for women and considers changing his lifestyle...
I could not see him in OHMSS at all, itd have to be a totally different movie, and we already had an unrecognizable You Only Live Twice that trashed all elements of character development that were in the novel
we gotta count ourselves lucky he did quit or we never would have got this film at all

Last edited by caractacus potts (31st Oct 2006 18:21)

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

I have no doubt that not only could Connery have done OHMSS but he could have done an absolutely brilliant job. My biggest regret regarding the Bond films is that Connery didn't do OHMSS.

caractacus potts wrote:

there was stuff in the novels that just wouldnt work with the Connery persona, not just Tracys death but the torture scenes, the moments of selfdoubt, the constant muttered expletives, the fact FlemingBond actually falls for women and considers changing his lifestyle...

I think Connery could have done everything that you stated extremely well. However, to be fair, he might not have agreed to do some of them such as the torture scenes, the moments of self doubt and 'the fact FlemingBond actually falls for women and considers changing his lifestyle.' I think he could have handled them superbly, but I can't imagine him agreeing to doing them, same as the Tracey scene as depicted in the film. However I can easily imagine him agreeing to constantly mutter expletives. ajb007/biggrin

(That all said, I wouldn't want to see any of the things that you described. Obviously Tracey died in OHMSS and in it Bond fell for a woman for whom he considered changing his life style, which as a one-off I think worked, but only as a one-off, however I'm not looking forward to the torture scene in CR and I don't think that Bond should have moments of self doubt.)

Last edited by Dan Same (1st Nov 2006 10:58)

"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

Dan Same wrote:

I have no doubt that not only could Connery have done OHMSS but he could have done an absolutely brilliant job. My biggest regret regarding the Bond films is that Connery didn't do OHMSS.

The Sean Connery of the first four Bond films could and probably would have done a brilliant job in OHMSS, far better than George Lazenby. The Connery of YOLT & DAF definitely would not have done a brilliant job in OHMSS.

In fact, Connery's portrayal in YOLT is my least favourite by a Bond actor in the whole series. I'd rather have Lazenby than a bored looking non-performing Connery. However, I am less critical of Connery in DAF. I tend to believe he altered his portrayal to suit the lighter tone of the film. He could have lost some weight, though.

Last edited by Moore Not Less (1st Nov 2006 21:47)

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

Agreed, sometimes Connery is too mellow, it started to show in thunderball, even though it looks like hes enjoying himself things cool and funny lines like "Cya later, aligator". But scenes especailly in YOLT i agree. Connery's bored portrayal in DN, TB, YOLT & sometimes, but not all in DAF affect his movies, Roger Moore really enjoys himself and when he has to be serious esp in Octopussy with Orlov and at the circus its believeable, and Peirce really makes an effort all the time esp in TWINE.

I enjoy Seans bond but i find it all too cool, roger can sometimes overdo the funnyness but brings it right back esp in the Glen ones of his, Pierce has gotten the balance right.

1. TWINE  2. FYEO  3. MR  4. TLD  5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS  7. DN  8. OP  9. AVTAK  10. TMWTGG  11. QoS 12. GE  13. CR  14. TB  15. FRWL  16. LTK  17. GF  18. SF  19. LaLD  20. YOLT  21. TND  22. DAD  23. DAF.

"If you'll forgive me, that's a little too scented for my palate."

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

Moore Not Less wrote:

In fact, Connery's portrayal in YOLT is my least favourite by a Bond actor in the whole series.

Perhaps it's because I love Connery so much, but I think his performance in YOLT (his worst official performance by a long way IMO) was still terrific by the standards of many other actors. In fact, the reason YOLT is fifth on my list is mainly due to the presence of Connery. ajb007/wink

"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

My favourite bond film, Lazenby looked good and would have been a great Bond, unlike the cardboard cut-out Moore. Diana Rigg was by far and away the best Bond girl intelligent and interesting instead of the norm of perfect capped teethed American non-actresses. Connery couldn't have pulled off the emotional scences in OHMSS. Anyway he was already getting too long in the tooth(Teeth again?).I liked Savalas as Blofeld he always had a deranged glint in his eye! As for Daniel Craig what was wrong with casting Clive Owen, Daniel should stick to his tramps clothes and roll-ups.

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

Dan Same wrote:

(his worst official performance by a long way IMO)

Sorry, what makes it official?  Did EON organise a special group to decide this?

Said it before, I'll say it again.  DAF - worst Connery appearence.  He isnt even trying to act English in thish one.

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

taity wrote:

Sorry, what makes it official?  Did EON organise a special group to decide this?

Well, because YOLT was official. NSNA wasn't. That's what I mean.

taity wrote:

Said it before, I'll say it again.  DAF - worst Connery appearence.  He isnt even trying to act English in thish one.

Well, as I have said previously, I don't agree. I thought Connery was brilliant in DAF. And what do you mean not acting English? I think that Connery, a Scotsman, acted English just as much in DAF as he did in any of his previous five films.

Last edited by Dan Same (5th Nov 2006 16:01)

"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

Yesh, Dan Shame.  I shee what you mean by that.  Shome people may complain aboust Shean's accent becaushe he shtartsh to pronouce "s" shounds with a very noticable "h."  Very Shcotish thing to do.  Flash back to 1962 where he had an English accent. 

Of course, he did a very bad accent in Hunt for Red October.

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

VERY VERY FUNNY ajb007/lol ajb007/lol ajb007/lol

but true

1. TWINE  2. FYEO  3. MR  4. TLD  5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS  7. DN  8. OP  9. AVTAK  10. TMWTGG  11. QoS 12. GE  13. CR  14. TB  15. FRWL  16. LTK  17. GF  18. SF  19. LaLD  20. YOLT  21. TND  22. DAD  23. DAF.

"If you'll forgive me, that's a little too scented for my palate."

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

taity wrote:

Yesh, Dan Shame.  I shee what you mean by that.  Shome people may complain aboust Shean's accent becaushe he shtartsh to pronouce "s" shounds with a very noticable "h."  Very Shcotish thing to do.  Flash back to 1962 where he had an English accent. 

Of course, he did a very bad accent in Hunt for Red October.

Very funny. ajb007/rolleyes Except, the way I see it, his accent was just as Scottish in DN. But, then what do I know? I've only seen the Connery Bond films dozens of times. ajb007/lol

(Plus, even if it were true that Connery's accent was more English in DN, I stand by my contention that Connery's performance in DAF was brilliant and among the best in the series. I don't believe that great accents equal great performances and IMO his performance in DAF, regardless of accent, was a masterful Bond performance.)

Last edited by Dan Same (6th Nov 2006 07:38)

"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

Wow kiddo, Id be impressed that you've seen so many Connery's movies.  Except that we're on a forum talking about James Bond, and the majority of people would own all of the movies, not seen them dozens of times.  For example, I have the new collection sitting in the very room as my computer.  I also had the old movies on DVD too.  SO whatever you know, chances are I know just as much.

Look, Dan - you like DAF.  It isnt as if its the worst movie ever made.  But stop holding it up as if it's cinematic gold whenever people point out some of it's weaker points.

Last edited by taity (6th Nov 2006 08:37)

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

taity wrote:

Wow kiddo,

Don't call me kiddo.

taity wrote:

Except that we're on a forum talking about James Bond, and the majority of people would own all of the movies, not seen them dozens of times.

So what if I don't own all of the movies and most of the people on this forum do? That means absolutely nothing.

taity wrote:

For example, I have the new collection sitting in the very room as my computer.  I also had the old movies on DVD too.  SO whatever you know, chances are I know just as much.

First, I never said that you don't know alot. Second, wether you own all or none of the films is not really the point. I was actually talking about myself. Why do I need to comfort you and tell you that you know alot about Bond? Afterall you own all the films. ajb007/rolleyes

taity wrote:

Look, Dan - you like DAF.  It isnt as if its the worst movie ever made.  But stop holding it up as if it's cinematic gold whenever people point out some of it's weaker points.

Perhaps I do think it's cinematic gold.* Why can't I have my own opinion? God forbid ajb007/amazed, I have a different opinion to you. ajb007/rolleyes Taity, you may not like Connery's performance, but I do, and I have just as much of a right to my opinion as you do to yours. And wether you like it or not, I will keep praising Connery's performance in DAF (and anything else that I think deserves praise.) I have just as much of a right to deliver praise as you do to deliver criticism. If you don't like it, then just don't respond. ajb007/rolleyes

*For the recond, I don't think that DAF is cinematic gold (although I think it is much better that alot of people give it credit for) but I do think that Connery's performance is cinematic gold, a view that I stand by.

Last edited by Dan Same (6th Nov 2006 11:08)

"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

Look, mate - think of it like this.  I said that Connery's accent was more Scotish in DAF than DN.  You then offered up your opinion followed by saying...

Dan Same wrote:

But, then what do I know? I've only seen the Connery Bond films dozens of times. ajb007/lol

Don't forget that lovely smily you put in.  The way you phrased it it sounded as if you had a superior knowledge of the topic.  Then when I responded saying that I owned the movies - you said it wasnt relevent.  It was - I directly responded to the way you acted.

Just agree to disagree and get back on topic - it was actually about OHMSS, not Connery in DAF.  Have the last word if you must.

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

taity wrote:

Don't forget that lovely smily you put in.  The way you phrased it it sounded as if you had a superior knowledge of the topic.

My apologies. I meant no such thing.

"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman

43

Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

taity wrote:

  Flash back to 1962 where he had an English accent.

Now that IS funny! ajb007/lol

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

according to Fleming, Bond is of Scots/Swiss stock
Connery has the right accent, its all these other wanabes who keep screwing it up

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

Ahh, well that is a good point...

The reference to Bond being a Scot (ans Swiss) comes mainly from the novel of YOLT.  The novel was however written after COnnery had done a couple of movies as Bond, so Fleming had tailored the description to fit him.

The earlier novels never said he was a Scot, they said that he was English.  Fleming also wrote about Bond's appreciation of English values - primarily English, didnt ever really mention Britain.  For example, in the book of Moonraker, I always got the impression that it was a reflection of English life to which Fleming made a point of saying that Bond fits very well into it.

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

taity wrote:

Fleming also wrote about Bond's appreciation of English values - primarily English, didnt ever really mention Britain.  For example, in the book of Moonraker, I always got the impression that it was a reflection of English life to which Fleming made a point of saying that Bond fits very well into it.

That is an interesting point about Moonraker taity, as I have always taken it as a suggestion to the contrary. I am thinking particularly of this quotation:

"Bond knew there was something alien and un-English about himself. He knew that he was a difficult man to cover up. Particularly in England. He shrugged his shoulders. Abroad was what mattered. He would never have a job to do in England."

Indeed, considering that quotation further I think it would be difficult to contend that Bond ever was a specifically English character, and I've always thought that Fleming gave Bond Scottish heritage due to his father Valentine: Connery was born in Edinburgh and Andrew Bond was 'of Glencoe', two places about as different from one another one is likely to find in Scotland.

As for the original question, I also cannot imagine Connery in OHMSS. That picture is perfect the way it is, with Lazenby as Bond. ajb007/smile

Last edited by Lazenby880 (7th Nov 2006 20:02)

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

Lazenby880 wrote:

"Bond knew there was something alien and un-English about himself. He knew that he was a difficult man to cover up. Particularly in England. He shrugged his shoulders. Abroad was what mattered. He would never have a job to do in England."

Being new to the books--just about to read MR (if college work permits me too ajb007/mad ), Fleming lurves the use of all his character shrugging their blasted shoulders!

Wonder what this film would have been like with TD as Bond. I believe he was approached ajb007/confused

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

mrwoodpigeon wrote:

Being new to the books--just about to read MR (if college work permits me too ajb007/mad ), Fleming lurves the use of all his character shrugging their blasted shoulders!

You are in for a treat Mr Woodpigeon; in my view Moonraker is one of Fleming's best novels, certainly the best of the earler ones. If you are reading them in order look forward also to From Russia with Love and You Only Live Twice; two superlative thrillers that leave an indelible impression on the reader, even though they are both completely different from one another.

You will certainly notice some similar phrases in the Bond thrillers, one thing I remember distinctly is that Bond has 'fierce slits' for eyes all the time.

To relate to OHMSS again, I really do think George Lazenby acquitted himself very well in the role. There is a sense of trepidation in his Bond, an uneasiness with moments of despondency and self-reflection. One might argue that Peter Hunt can take credit for that, however I think Lazenby did an excellent job and brought to the fore a rather different and fascinating interpretation of the 007 character. The film would have been very different had Connery played Bond, and not a better one.

Last edited by Lazenby880 (7th Nov 2006 20:09)

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

Lazenby880 wrote:

"Bond knew there was something alien and un-English about himself. He knew that he was a difficult man to cover up. Particularly in England. He shrugged his shoulders. Abroad was what mattered. He would never have a job to do in England."

theres loads of other passages where bond shows his disdain for English ways
particularly he doesnt like tea or baths
he likes coffee and showers
I think he a postwar, man-of-the-world, and often prefers the practical ways of americans to the hidebound traditions of his fellow Brits
(and other characters frequently mistake him for a yank, making comments like "I thought the english were supposed to be shy")
in Flemings Moonraker there is all that snobbery going on in the Blades Club, however
M and his friends cant deal with the gross manners of Hugo Drax, apparantly a selfmade millionaire born in the docks of Liverpool, and Bond shares their snobbery
Moonraker has an unusual ammount of Englishcontent cuz it all takes place on the homefront
but I think Fleming is getting into describing another one of his favourite landscapes: the County of Kent
he returns to it in Goldfinger, its one of these places he spends pages describing every turn in the road, every switchback, every roadside tavern 
it seems to rank just behind Jamaica and the alps as a favoured place to write about

Last edited by caractacus potts (7th Nov 2006 21:21)

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

I'm sure I've read in more than one James Bond biography that if Sean had played 007 in OHMSS the film would have ended with the wedding and that the subsequent death of Tracy would have formed part of the pre-titles sequence to the next film - DAF.  Had this occurred our whole perception of both films and indeed a big chunk of 007 cinema history would be totally different.  Ultimately I believe that it is the fact that George Lazenby is a 'new' 007 in OHMSS which contributes much to the triumph of the film.  I'm sure Sean COULD have done an admirable job - but only if he'd thrown off his much talked about weariness towards the franchise and rediscovered his earlier enthusiasm.  Of course we'll never know. 

OHMSS remains my favourite 007 film.  George Lazenby and Diana Rigg captured the moment spectacularly well.   

Regards,

Mark