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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

Thi is an amazing James Bond film!

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Mark65 wrote:

...if Sean had played 007 in OHMSS the film would have ended with the wedding and that the subsequent death of Tracy would have formed part of the pre-titles sequence to the next film - DAF.

sounds familiar, but I believe that was the plan if Lazenby had done more than one

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

I adore the ending to OHMSS but I think that the alternative (Tracey dies in the PTS to DAF which becomes a revenge thriller) could have been great. My only objection, however, is that I love DAF. ajb007/wink

Last edited by Dan Same (20th Nov 2006 18:57)

"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman

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Fish1941 wrote:

Don't get me wrong.  I like DAF.  But the movie's follow up to Tracy's murder seemed . . . I don't know.  Lacking would be the best term, I think.

DAF was no masterpiece, but for what it was and set out to do, I think it was terrific. I don't think DAF is among the best of Bond films but I do think it is among the most fun.

Last edited by Dan Same (21st Nov 2006 15:02)

"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

It's the only Bond film I think hould have never been made, it's is the worst.

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lol well now we have a north west of england bond ajb007/biggrin

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Steed wrote:

The only thing I could say was wrong with the film would be right at the very end- I find the triumphant strains of the Bond theme that follows the gorgeous, moving 'We Have All The Time In The World' to be all wrong.

I felt the same way when I heard that.

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Fish1941 wrote:
Dan Same wrote:
Fish1941 wrote:

Don't get me wrong.  I like DAF.  But the movie's follow up to Tracy's murder seemed . . . I don't know.  Lacking would be the best term, I think.

DAF was no masterpiece, but for what it was and set out to do, I think it was terrific. I don't think DAF is among the best of Bond films but I do think it is among the most fun.


I agree.  It was a fun movie.  I just hated the way they treated Bond's revenge for Tracey's death.  It was so distant and cold.  The movie couldn't even state why Bond was after Blofeld.

I've always been disappointed by this---I'm rather a fan of DAF as well; it's my favourite of the so-thought-of (by me) 'comedic' Bond films---but it would have been fascinating to have a more resonant, emotionally-engaging follow-up to Tracy's murder.  I think this is true whether you do it with her murder in OHMSS (thus making DAF more revenge-oriented) or having OHMSS end happily and making Tracy's death the inciting incident of DAF...

Last edited by Loeffelholz (3rd Dec 2006 22:34)

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

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Re: OHMSS - am I the only one who...

I find the fact that Lazenby only played Bond once makes OHMSS all the more special.  There’s something quite moving about it being the only time.  Especially when you consider what happens in the film.  I think Connery could have done it, but it would have a different feel to it.  Connery’s Bond rarely showed fear and if he did it quickly turned to anger.   He seems indestructible.  It would have been interesting to see how Connery would have coped with the parts of the script that required him to act against that.  Bond is on the run for much of the latter part of the movie.  Lazenby’s Bond looks afraid when he’s trying to hide from Blofeld’s henchmen at the winter fairground.  I’m not sure Connery’s would have.  He might have ran, but he would have looked vengeful, like he was really looking forward to getting an opportunity to beat them to death.  I also can’t imagine Connery reacting in the same way to the person in the menacing polar bear costume that Bond stumbles into.  Lazenby Bond jumps back in shock.  I can see Connery punching the polar bear’s face in.  Now that I think of it, I can also see Roger Moore’s Bond stealing the costume and spending the rest of the movie dressed as a bear. 

Then there’s my favourite ever moment in a Bond film, actually ANY film, when Bond is sitting alone at a table by the ice rink and a skater stops in front of him, the camera pans upward and its Tracy.  It’s a scene that has Bond being rescued by a woman and I just can’t see Connery playing that.  I suspect he would have taken control and been the dominating actor, while here it’s Diana Rigg who leads the scene and it’s much better that way.  Tracy even drives the car when they make their getaway.  I think Connery’s Bond would have picked her up and put her in the boot rather than let that happen. But then again I’m speculating, we’re never going to know, but I don’t mind.  I like OHMSS just the way it is. 

It’s a pity Lazenby had such bad advice back then.  I got hold of an Italian horror film he starred in shortly after quitting Bond, called ‘Who Saw Her Die?’ and the special features included an interview with the producer, who claimed that Lazenby did this film for the simple reason that he was broke and wanted enough money to buy a boat and go sailing.  The song that closed ‘TWINE,’ Scott Walker’s ‘Only Myself to Blame,’ always reminds me of Lazenby and I guess if there was change I would make I would put that over the closing titles of OHMSS.

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John Drake wrote:

I also can’t imagine Connery reacting in the same way to the person in the menacing polar bear costume that Bond stumbles into.  Lazenby Bond jumps back in shock.  I can see Connery punching the polar bear’s face in.

There is a very similar scene in Thunderball. At the mardi gras, Sean Connery's Bond has been shot in the leg, he's running away (as best he can) from Fiona Volpe, Vargas & Co. He stumbles into a man in the street. Connery's reaction is very similar to that of George Lazenby. And he does not punch the man's face in.

If Connery was sufficiently motivated then he would have been a much more convincing Bond in OHMSS than Lazenby was. However, if Connery was in YOLT mode, we're better off with Lazenby.

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Sorry, haven't seen TB in a while.  Been meaning to get the ultimate edition.  That and YOLT are the only Connery Bonds I don't have.  Note to self- Must complete collection.

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John Drake wrote:

Tracy even drives the car when they make their getaway.  I think Connery’s Bond would have picked her up and put her in the boot rather than let that happen.

as with 98% of this film, this is straight from Fleming
one of the reasons Bond was so attracted to Tracy was her skill as a driver, his first sight of her is overtaking him on the road into Royale-les-Eaux , he cant even keep up with her and is very interested
in Flemings books, the hottest Bondgirls are the ones who are masters of those skills that obsess Fleming: Tiffany Case cheats at cards better than Bond can, both Honey Rider and Kissy Suzuki are professional divers, and Tracy drives an expensive powerful car more skillfully than Bond
this leads to two significant outcomes in the story: 1) she saves Bonds life when he barely manages to get down that mountain alive, and 2) her sexy driving skill costs her her life
cant remember how it played out in the movie, but in the book Tracy was the one driving as they left their wedding
thats an additional measure of how much Bond values her, I think
but had Bond been in the drivers seat, as Blofeld would likely have assumed, it would have been he who took the bullet and Tracy left widowed on her wedding day

(btw: the bit where the girl outraces Bond was itself a repeat, thats how Fleming introduced Tilly Masterton in Goldfinger, before repeating almost the exact same sequence in OHMSS. Tilly also appears in the woods with a weapon ready to assassinate Goldfinger, a sequence that would be repeated in FYEO. Did Fleming figure he'd come up with two iconic Bondgirl sequences but had wasted them on a pointless character, so decided to repeat both sequences with better characters in future books?)

Last edited by caractacus potts (5th Dec 2006 17:48)

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John Drake wrote:

I also can’t imagine Connery reacting in the same way to the person in the menacing polar bear costume that Bond stumbles into.  Lazenby Bond jumps back in shock.  I can see Connery punching the polar bear’s face in.

I actually think that Bond expressed too much fear in that scene. ajb007/wink I don't have a problem with Bond expressing fear but IMO Lazenby took it too far in that particular scene.

Moore Not Less wrote:

If Connery was sufficiently motivated then he would have been a much more convincing Bond in OHMSS than Lazenby was. However, if Connery was in YOLT mode, we're better off with Lazenby.

I agree and I disagree. The way I see it, Lazenby's portrayal  can be divided into three parts; the physicality, the final scene and everything else. I loved Lazenby's physicality and his handling of the final scene but I hate everything else about his performance. Regarding Connery, I think that Connery could have handled the physicality and 'everything else' regardless of what mood he was in. It is the final scene that raises questions. I don't know if Connery could have handled the final scene in YOLT mode (I loved his performance in YOLT but even I would acknowledge that it wasn't his best) but I think he could have handled it in DN-TB/DAF mode. Other than the final scene, I think he could have bettered Lazenby's performance regardless of what mode he was in.

"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman

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Connery would have handled the knowing humour better, and the dialogue seems written with Connery in mind.

Not sure just who Connery's Bond would fall in love with, mind. Have we ever really seen Connery fall in love on film? Nothing leaps to mind...

"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

Roger Moore 1927-2017

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Napoleon Plural wrote:

Have we ever really seen Connery fall in love on film? Nothing leaps to mind...

Maybe ‘Marnie’ and ‘Robin and Marion.’  Neither of these are typical boy meets girl romances though.  In ‘Marnie’s case it’s more, slightly threatening boy meets kleptomaniac in need of psychiatric help.  ‘RaM’ certainly has great chemistry between Connery and Audrey Hepburn, but they are rekindling an old romance, so the falling in love part has already taken place.  I can’t think of anything else.  I think ‘Cuba’ had a love affair at its centre, but I haven’t seen that for about fifteen years so my memory of that is a bit hazy.

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I think NP was thinking in terms of Connery's Bond.  His characterization's aloofness had been established to such a degree that it might have been difficult for the audience to accept---though I'm sure he had the chops to pull it off.  It might have taken more than a romantic montage and Louis Armstrong to pull it off, though  ajb007/wink

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

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No, I meant all Connery's film really. He can be a tortured poetic soul but it's all about him really. Marnie was a rekindled romance, too.

"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

Roger Moore 1927-2017

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Dan Same wrote:
Moore Not Less wrote:

If Connery was sufficiently motivated then he would have been a much more convincing Bond in OHMSS than Lazenby was. However, if Connery was in YOLT mode, we're better off with Lazenby.

I agree and I disagree. The way I see it, Lazenby's portrayal  can be divided into three parts; the physicality, the final scene and everything else. I loved Lazenby's physicality and his handling of the final scene but I hate everything else about his performance. Regarding Connery, I think that Connery could have handled the physicality and 'everything else' regardless of what mood he was in. It is the final scene that raises questions. I don't know if Connery could have handled the final scene in YOLT mode (I loved his performance in YOLT but even I would acknowledge that it wasn't his best) but I think he could have handled it in DN-TB/DAF mode. Other than the final scene, I think he could have bettered Lazenby's performance regardless of what mode he was in.

There's little doubt that Sean Connery would have handled all the physicality regardless of what mood/mode he was in. However, there's no way he would have been convincing in the final scene if he was just going through the motion's like he did in YOLT. Without the motivation, George Lazenby's the better option.

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Napoleon Plural wrote:

No, I meant all Connery's film really. He can be a tortured poetic soul but it's all about him really. Marnie was a rekindled romance, too.

I stand corrected.

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

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I think because he was established as unflappable and as hard-edged in the previous entries, it would actually been even better to see the same actor delve into such emotional heights, and I don't think Connery would necessarily be against it. I mean, he always wanted the more human side of Bond to show (including his humor) than his invulnerability, and if they'd done OHMSS in place of YOLT, and in the same way Maibaum and Hunt had dictated, it would've been a different performance, certainly.

Really, I'd trade Connery in OHMSS for almost anything in the Connery-Moore era since, even FYEO and NSNA.

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Jimmy Bond - brings Zombie threads back to life!

What was I blathering on about back in 2006? Robin and Marion is the rekindled romance, not Marnie.

"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

Roger Moore 1927-2017

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To my mind OHMSS and Lazenby are inseperable. I struggle to imagine how the film could have been what it is, if Connery had done it as a follow-up to his performance in YOLT.

As a 'Blofeld trilogy' YOLT, OHMSS and DAF are very different to each other in style and tone - more so than any other three consecutive Bond movies. I like them all, and especially DAF (which I thoroughly enjoy).

OHMSS inherits from its source novel some pretty awful sexual politics, with dubious ideas about what a suicidal girl needs to 'cure' her, but the action sequences and cinematography are spectacular, still among the highlights of the entire series.

Last edited by Shady Tree (27th Apr 2019 09:02)

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For one thing, in an alternate OHMSS, Connery's Bond voiced by George Baker for the duration of Bond's disguise at the clinic would have seemed ludicrous, and would probably have been unacceptable to Connery as an actor anyway.

The recasting of both Blofeld and Bond for OHMSS enabled what feels like a second go at a 'first encounter' between the two characters - and rather a testy, spikey encounter it is too, compared with the somewhat anticlimactic, B-movie style of the Connery/Pleasance exchanges in YOLT (about which Connery really did look bored).

But if there's one strong unifying element between YOLT, OHMSS and DAF it's John Barry and his distinctive 'Bond sound'.

Last edited by Shady Tree (27th Apr 2019 00:48)

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Shady Tree wrote:

For one thing, in an alternate OHMSS, Connery's Bond voiced by George Baker for the duration of Bond's disguise at the clinic would have seemed ludicrous, and would probably have been unacceptable to Connery as an actor anyway.

I agree that it wouldn't have happened to Connery. 1969 was before the time when Connery could have talked with his Edinburgh accent and be accepted as a well-educated man working for the College of Arms. But it could have been the start of it.

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Shady Tree wrote:

OHMSS inherits from its source novel some pretty awful sexual politics, with dubious ideas about what a suicidal girl needs to 'cure' her.

and then once he's engaged to be engaged to said suicidal girl, he goes on his secret mission and begins sleeping his way through the Angels of Death! if Irma hadn't interrupted after the second, he would have shown his illustrated genealogy textbook to all twelve. Then after Tracy saves his life, she asks "what really went on on top of that mountain?" and he changes the subject. One of the Austin Powers-est moments in the whole series.

Shady Tree wrote:

For one thing, in an alternate OHMSS, Connery's Bond voiced by George Baker for the duration of Bond's disguise at the clinic would have seemed ludicrous, and would probably have been unacceptable to Connery as an actor anyway.

in my last viewing, I was convinced this was only done because Lazenby was not a proper actor. The middle section of the film is where he has the most dialog, and Lazenby has to actually act. The first section is dominated by Dianna Rigg, and the final is all those action sequences, Lazenby doesn't have to deliver so many lines. But in the middle he has to talk a lot, and be charming and funny, and its another actor overdubbing the vocals who makes him look competent.
No way either Connery or Moore would have needed overdubbing for those same scenes.