26

Re: Original Star Trek to be re-released with new CGI effects

The comet looks brilliant, as do the plasma blasts.

Funny how Star Wars tinkering always sets me on edge, yet I love Robert Wise's director cut. --I've always been an original Trek fan first and foremost -- man, Star Trek always deserved better then what they got in terms of effects and budget. They didn't have ILM, but the writing was more substantial and provoked more introspection, in my honest opinion.

And I love the details on the Romulan ships, just don't add or change scenes, that's really all that bothered me from George Lucas.

Last edited by Alex (18th Sep 2006 18:43)

27

Re: Original Star Trek to be re-released with new CGI effects

darenhat wrote:

Those pics are great. I look forward to the day these episodes are available on DVD! Although I'm a bit concerned by the 'BEFORE/AFTER' pics of Spock. Did they change the hue of his skin? I like the subtle pale effect he had as a Vulcan. You actually thought he really had green blood.

That's a great point Darenhat. One can't help but wonder if the color is a result of the remastering (implying that it was that way all along and had gotten dulled from years of neglect) or that the technicians who worked on the color weren't up on their Trek lore. I tend to think it's the former but you never can be sure.


Alex wrote:

The comet looks brilliant, as do the plasma blasts.

Funny how Star Wars tinkering always sets me on edge, yet I love Robert Wise's director cut. --I've always been an original Trek fan first and foremost -- man, Star Trek always deserved better then what they got in terms of effects and budget. They didn't have ILM, but the writing was more substantial and provoked more introspection, in my honest opinion.

And I love the details on the Romulan ships, just don't add or change scenes, that's really all that bothered me from George Lucas.

I'm with ya Alex; Star Trek was always there right from my earliest childhood memories. It really shaped me in many fundamental ways and so I hold it in even higher regard than Bond.

I must be one of the few people on the planet who actually enjoyed ST:TMP (I thought it really caught that 2001 vibe and there was a great sci-fi story behind it all). I agree that the Director's Edition made it all that much better and had even more touches that harkened back to the original show.

Ironically, Trek did have ILM for several movies (TWOK, TSFS, TVH, TUC, Generations and First Contact) but other than TMP, Paramount never gave them the budget. I remember reading how Nicholas Meyer had to film scenes for The Undiscovered Country from certain angles because some of the Starfleet costumes had become badly worn and Paramount wouldn't pay for replacements.

As far as the Remastered Trek goes, oddly enough, most Trek fans (and as I'm sure you know, some of them can be really fanatical) are actually a little disappointed that CBS/Paramount didn't go further with the effects and liken certain things to the other shows (the warp drive effect and Romulan cloak being two prime examples). Personally, I thought the episode struck just the right balance, prettying things up a bit but still staying very faithful to the look of the old show. I'm also sure they'll get a little more ambitious as they go further along.

28

Re: Original Star Trek to be re-released with new CGI effects

Tony, I never agreed with the "even number" myth. Rewriting "The Changeling" for the motion picture strikes all the right chords with me. And a visual feast. VGer's platform, Spock's rocket-pack jettison, etc, etc. Consider this odd scenerio, two people who actually enjoy the film.

Maybe we'll see the cloaking device in "The Enterprise Incident" You never know. Oh, and I can't wait to see what they do with The "Doomsday Machine"

Got a favorite?

Last edited by Alex (19th Sep 2006 18:58)

29

Re: Original Star Trek to be re-released with new CGI effects

Alex wrote:

Tony, I never agreed with the "even number" myth. Rewriting "The Changeling" for the motion picture strikes all the right chords with me. And a visual feast. VGer's platform, Spock's rocket-pack jettison, etc, etc. Consider this odd scenerio, two people who actually enjoy the film.

I always thought The Motion Picture and The Search For Spock were both solid, odd numbered pictures. Even ST V: The Final Frontier had some really great character moments to it. ST:TMP was a visual feast, I don't think it was ever equalled lookswise and the sets were all just amazing.

Maybe we'll see the cloaking device in "The Enterprise Incident" You never know. Oh, and I can't wait to see what they do with The "Doomsday Machine"

Got a favorite?

The Doomsday Machine was the first Trek episode I ever saw; I was 5 years old and still remember it like it was yesterday (Matt Decker's death scared the literal crap out of me). It's tough to pick just one show; the first that come to mind are:

Where No Man Has Gone Before
City of the Edge of Forever
A Piece of the Action
Trouble with Tribbles
Balance of Terror
Errand of Mercy (Kor was my favorite Klingon)
Journey to Babel

There are more (as well as a few I'd just as soon were never made) but those resonate most with me right now and are ones I'm looking forward to seeing spiffed up.

BTW, I love the new avatar ... "Your daughter is mine already!!" ajb007/wink

30

Re: Original Star Trek to be re-released with new CGI effects

Thanks Tony. Scaramanga and Naomi send their regards as well. ajb007/martini

My first was the one with Apollo, reason I remember it so well was my father kept getting irritated with the way Kirk was treating the god of poetry and fine arts. I must admit, I felt remorse as well. Especially after Leslie Parrish rebuffs him.

Incidentally, Lt. Carolyn Palamas and Barbara Bouchet were my favorite feminine guest stars. ajb007/wink

And I noticed the sets at Walmart marked at $55. I had paid full price because I couldn't wait. Dammit.

31

Re: Original Star Trek to be re-released with new CGI effects

This page has some pics and short videos from the remastered Devil in the Dark.


http://trekmovie.com/2006/09/23/devil-i … /#more-209

I missed the episode myself because even though I set my DVD recorder's timer, I forgot to leave the settop box turned on. I particularly like the new animation when the Horta burns a tunnel thru the wall. The closing credits flyby is also very nice.

32

Re: Original Star Trek to be re-released with new CGI effects

What's the time schedule on these, late night Saturdays?

As for Devil, I like the new Matte. Though I admit a little skepticism upon first glance. However, after enlarging the image, very-very nice. Couldn't tell much improvement with the Horta itself though. I always thought it was fine to begin with. Wah Chang could create something from the barest. Truly an unsung hero.

Now I really can't wait to see the second pilot. There was was one heck of a nice painting to begin with there. And it meshed with the live acting in one beatifully conceived long distance shot.

33

Re: Original Star Trek to be re-released with new CGI effects

Most markets do seem to be showing it in the very early morning hours; in Boston it plays at 3:00am early Sunday and 2:00am early Monday; as such a VCR, TIVO or DVD Recorder is a must.

That's really too bad as it will not generate any buzz by playing at such odd hours. CBS/Paramount also haven't helped themselves by making the remastered shows available only to syndicated markets and excluding cable outlets that carry the show like TVLand and G4.

I'm also looking forward to seeing what they do with Where No Man Has Gone before. Based on what I've seen so far, I'm sure the changes will be pleasing to the eye but relatively subtle.

According to Yahoo's TV schedule, the next remastered show will be The Naked Time next weekend.

34

Re: Original Star Trek to be re-released with new CGI effects

Grateful for the lowdown, I don't have a burner so vcr it shall be, I'm usually up anyway since night shift is the norm.

Can't think at the moment what they could do to Naked Time. Apart from the beginning it's more ship/dialogue then others. Perhaps they'll work on Spock and Joe's shower curtain decontamination suits. ajb007/smile

35

Re: Original Star Trek to be re-released with new CGI effects

Alex wrote:

Can't think at the moment what they could do to Naked Time. Apart from the beginning it's more ship/dialogue then others. Perhaps they'll work on Spock and Joe's shower curtain decontamination suits. ajb007/smile

Those outfits just screamed "23rd century". ajb007/lol

The scenes at the end where the Enterprise is falling into the planet's orbit and then executes that special warp maneuver that send it back in time will probably get a bit of a facelift. Other than that, we'll probably get a new flyby or two.

36

Re: Original Star Trek to be re-released with new CGI effects

modernising the special effects? ick!
I know the exterior shots suffer on modern TVs, you can see the blue outline surrounding the model, sometimes you can see the string!
but that was the cool thing, is that they could evoke this whole vision of humanitys future with such simple props and a few inexpensive camera tricks
I mean, the point has been made many times in recent years, we're living in a world built by geeks who grew up watching Star Trek in the 60s: cel phones, medical technology, they even claim automatic sliding doors were invented for star Trek (Im dubious about that one)
sociologically we're going in the opposite direction, but technologically we're living in a world literally inspired by this one single TV series

Next Generation: I loved the character of Picard, and him and Data were awesome actors, they could have carried the show all by themselves
the whole show was immersed in early90s leftwing postmodern progressive values which is good or bad I guess depending on your own biases
me, I liked Picards whole schmoozy diplomatic way of dealing with complex interspecies issues, and i think it was significant that he kept the ships counsellor, of all people, sitting next to him on the bridge whenever he had to "reason" with the Klingons or the Crystal Entity or whoever was up on that big screen this week
I actually resolved situations in real life by asking myself "what would JeanLuc Picard do?"

DS9 I know is controversial, what with the abandonment of the essential roadtrip concept and all the moral nuances
but I think it was necesarry at that point in the shows history
after 10 years of combined episodes + the films, that enterprise must have had the galaxy pretty much mapped out, Picard kept meeting the same alien races week after week, and the later Picard seasons were dealing more and more with the interrelationships and historic political baggage accumulated by these klingons Cardassians Borg etc etc
so it made sense to have a series set at the crossroads of the different Star Trek universe cultures, and watch how they interacted for a while

Last edited by caractacus potts (1st Oct 2006 16:58)

37

Re: Original Star Trek to be re-released with new CGI effects

caractacus potts wrote:

modernising the special effects? ick!
I know the exterior shots suffer on modern TVs, you can see the blue outline surrounding the model, sometimes you can see the string!
but that was the cool thing, is that they could evoke this whole vision of humanitys future with such simple props and a few inexpensive camera tricks
I mean, the point has been made many times in recent years, we're living in a world built by geeks who grew up watching Star Trek in the 60s: cel phones, medical technology, they even claim automatic sliding doors were invented for star Trek (Im dubious about that one)
sociologically we're going in the opposite direction, but technologically we're living in a world literally inspired by this one single TV series

I think that one of CBS/Paramount's primary reasons for including new FX in the old show is to try to garner interest among younger viewers who've never seen the show and might tune out without giving it a chance because it looks so archaic. Now you could argue that if somebody is incapable of looking past the FX and getting into the story, then it's a lost cause already; but when it comes to art vs. commerce, commerce usually wins out.

Having said that, I've found the remastered FX to be very subtly done. If you've seen the old shows a hundred times each (as I have) then you can spot the new FX, but otherwise, they really don't draw attention to themselves and really serve the story. This weekend's show, The Naked Time, is a perfect example of this. The new FX consisted of some cleaner shots of the Enterprise orbitin PSI-1000, a digital matte painting of the exterior of the research facility on the planet, and some new visuals on the viewscreen that more closely matched what was happening in the story. If anything, I think they're being a little too conservative and respectful of the original material, but that's just my opinion.


Next Generation: I loved the character of Picard, and him and Data were awesome actors, they could have carried the show all by themselves
the whole show was immersed in early90s leftwing postmodern progressive values which is good or bad I guess depending on your own biases
me, I liked Picards whole schmoozy diplomatic way of dealing with complex interspecies issues, and i think it was significant that he kept the ships counsellor, of all people, sitting next to him on the bridge whenever he had to "reason" with the Klingons or the Crystal Entity or whoever was up on that big screen this week
I actually resolved situations in real life by asking myself "what would JeanLuc Picard do?"

I enjoyed Next Generation but there's a fine line between "character development" and "self-indulgence" and by the 4th or 5th season, they really started to cross that line more and more. When characters started talking about why they wore their beards the way they did they lost me a little. I think it got even worse in the TNG movies; Data's antics as a result of his emotion chip and Picard's annual mid life crises just wore thin very quickly. The movies were also horribly unoriginal and derivitive (in particular, Nemesis was a thinly veiled ripoff of The Wrath of Khan).

DS9 I know is controversial, what with the abandonment of the essential roadtrip concept and all the moral nuances
but I think it was necesarry at that point in the shows history
after 10 years of combined episodes + the films, that enterprise must have had the galaxy pretty much mapped out, Picard kept meeting the same alien races week after week, and the later Picard seasons were dealing more and more with the interrelationships and historic political baggage accumulated by these klingons Cardassians Borg etc etc
so it made sense to have a series set at the crossroads of the different Star Trek universe cultures, and watch how they interacted for a while

Even though I respect DS9's expansive story arcs that lasted episodes and even seasons, I never really got to care for any of the characters. It didn't help that the writers were having them shift alliances on an almost weekly basis (how many times did Gul Dukat go from bad guy to maybe good guy and back again before finally settling down in the 7th season?). And I also hated the way they undid characters' story arcs. Worf was the worst example of this. After finding his brother and losing and then regaining his family honor on TNG, he in short order loses his honor (again) and his brother (again) - which by the way is pretty much a rehash of his feud with Duras. Then, when he kills Gowron, joins with Murtag's family and regains his honor (again), he conveniently forgets all about his brother Kurn and his sad fate (his memory was wiped and even his physical appearance was altered). Sisko's final fate was also poorly handled: he ends up with the prophets but leaves his son and Cassidy (who is expecting a child) behind.

The same kinds of character inconsistencies also marked Voyager (who can forget the episode where Janeway surrenders the ship to the Kazons for Seksa's baby) and Enterprise (Archer in particular drifted wildly from determined captain to borderline bigot to jerk of the week).

In some ways, I think having the original series cancelled after only 3 seasons and then seeing them in only the 6 movies was a good thing. They weren't in front of the camera long enough to wear out their welcome as it were. This is of course all just my opinion.

38

Re: Original Star Trek to be re-released with new CGI effects

your right about the short run of the 60s Star Trek being a good thing, it definitely went out on a high, allowing it to retain its mystique 
even the 3rd season is very weak, it was already slipping, although Season 3 does have excellent guest appearances from Frank riddler gorshin and Yvonne Batgirl Craig

the complex morality of Gul Dukat (he was the Cardassian whod managed the station before Sisko right?) was one of my favourite aspects of the show
too bad they decided he was a pure villain in the final episode
cuz over the years theyd done these thoughtprovoking stories where Kira would be forced to work with him for whatever reason, and shed have to confront the fact that she too had done some very bad things when she was fighting in the Bajoran Resistance
gave the whole situation this sort of ripped-from-the-headlines metaphor, sometimes mirroring situations in Israel/Palestine, sometimes the Balkans
but lots of folks I know hated that stuff, didnt want to have to think about real world politics when they were watching Star Trek (as if there was never any civil rights metaphors in the original series)

Last edited by caractacus potts (1st Oct 2006 22:29)

39

Re: Original Star Trek to be re-released with new CGI effects

TonyDP wrote:

The same kinds of character inconsistencies also marked Voyager (who can forget the episode where Janeway surrenders the ship to the Kazons for Seksa's baby)

Arggh! Voyager drove me up the wall! The fact that Janeway banishing her crew across the galaxy as a result of violating the prime directive and then leaving them stranded there by 'upholding' that same directive was just ludicrous. The crew should have muntined against her incompetence from the get-go!

40

Re: Original Star Trek to be re-released with new CGI effects

especially since half the crew were mutinous radicals anyway it was always noncredible Chicotays people would respect her command after a screwup like that

41

Re: Original Star Trek to be re-released with new CGI effects

darenhat wrote:

Arggh! Voyager drove me up the wall! The fact that Janeway banishing her crew across the galaxy as a result of violating the prime directive and then leaving them stranded there by 'upholding' that same directive was just ludicrous. The crew should have muntined against her incompetence from the get-go!

I pretty much tuned out Voyager after the first season. Between the lame Kazon, Janeway's "touchy feely" command style, and the tired Starfleet & Maquis must work together thread, it really stumbled out of the gate. It did improve as the years went on and by the end there were some episodes that I did enjoy (mainly the Q and Borg storylines). For me though, Voyager was flawed from the start as it suffered from what I call "Gilligan's Island" syndrome: the whole point of the show was for them to get back home, but of course you knew that wouldn't happen until the last episode. It rendered many of the shows pointless.

As for the remastered TOS, here's a link to a few before and after shots from The Naked Time. I especially like the new digital matte shot of the research station and the improved chronometer.


http://trekmovie.com/2006/09/30/the-nak … reenshots/

42

Re: Original Star Trek to be re-released with new CGI effects

I liked Voyager-it wasn't a masterpiece or anything,but I didn't think it was exactly terrible,either.In broad terms it was very much in the line of the original ST show except that the captain was a woman this time around(and she was every bit as square-jawed and aggressive as Kirk had been).

One character I particularly liked was Robert Picardo's holographic doctor.He was both interesting and original.Jeri Ryan,with her uniform at first glance appearing to have been spray-painted onto her body, wasn't all that hard to take either.

For the most part, I thought this show  was a collection of oddly familiar characters and plot cliches drawn from what had worked in all of the other ST programs.It sometimes looked as if it had been developed in a session that lasted for about three hours.Maybe the series' writers had just run out of creative steam by the time Voyager was developed.

Last edited by Willie Garvin (2nd Oct 2006 02:15)

43

Re: Original Star Trek to be re-released with new CGI effects

Although I consider myself something of a purist, I'm glad they changed the chronometer--the thing was dated even in the 1970s!

And do you suppose when they "update" "Journey to Babel" the Andorians' antennae will twitch like they did on Enterprise?

Vox clamantis in deserto

44

Re: Original Star Trek to be re-released with new CGI effects

Willie Garvin wrote:

One character I particularly liked was Robert Picardo's holographic doctor.He was both interesting and original.Jeri Ryan,with her uniform at first glance appearing to have been spray-painted onto her body, wasn't all that hard to take either.

Agree on both counts, The Doctor was my favorite character and some of the best episodes revolved around him. And as for Geri Ryan, grrrrrrrrrr!!!

For the most part, I thought this show  was a collection of oddly familiar characters and plot cliches drawn from what had worked in all of the other ST programs.It sometimes looked as if it had been developed in a session that lasted for about three hours.Maybe the series' writers had just run out of creative steam by the time Voyager was developed.

That was part of the problem for the first few seasons IMHO; there was very little originality and too many "Will Voyager get home this week?" type stories (and of course, you knew they wouldn't). Even the Kazon were little more than Klingons with really outrageous wigs. Oddly enough, I think the show got stronger as the seasons wore on (which is usually the opposite of what happens) and some of their best episodes came in the later seasons. The series finale was also very well done.

Hardyboy wrote:

And do you suppose when they "update" "Journey to Babel" the Andorians' antennae will twitch like they did on Enterprise?

You never know, but somehow I doubt it HB; Paramount has said that they don't intend to touch the live action except to correct visual goofs (like the absence of the phaser beam when Scotty is cutting thru the bulkhead). Also, the Romulans in Balance of Terror were not touched up to resemble their later counterparts. I get the feeling significant alterations like that are beyond the scope of the budget for this project. Most of the enhancements so far have involved standalone FX shots or viewscreen elements.

Last edited by TonyDP (2nd Oct 2006 02:45)

45

Re: Original Star Trek to be re-released with new CGI effects

I'd usually find myself enjoying Voyager, the doctor would be talking to 9, or the Klingon babe would be frowning at someone, then Janeway would show up; start barking orders like Jane Curtin on an old SNL coneheads sketch, and ruin everything.

46

Re: Original Star Trek to be re-released with new CGI effects

TonyDP wrote:
darenhat wrote:

Arggh! Voyager drove me up the wall! The fact that Janeway banishing her crew across the galaxy as a result of violating the prime directive and then leaving them stranded there by 'upholding' that same directive was just ludicrous. The crew should have muntined against her incompetence from the get-go!

I pretty much tuned out Voyager after the first season. Between the lame Kazon, Janeway's "touchy feely" command style, and the tired Starfleet & Maquis must work together thread, it really stumbled out of the gate. It did improve as the years went on and by the end there were some episodes that I did enjoy (mainly the Q and Borg storylines). For me though, Voyager was flawed from the start as it suffered from what I call "Gilligan's Island" syndrome: the whole point of the show was for them to get back home, but of course you knew that wouldn't happen until the last episode. It rendered many of the shows pointless.

As for the remastered TOS, here's a link to a few before and after shots from The Naked Time. I especially like the new digital matte shot of the research station and the improved chronometer.


http://trekmovie.com/2006/09/30/the-nak … reenshots/


The biggest mistake I think they made with Voyager was sticking to the 'Gilligan's Island' scenario. The final episode crashed and burned for me because I wanted to see the characters AT HOME and see how the characters (and the things they longed for) changed. There was no reason they couldn't have returned home in the third or fourth season. Remember: the show was called 'Voyager'...not 'Delta Quadrant'. Fresh thinking was NOT what this show was about IMO.

And 'The Naked Time'? It features my favorite Star Trek line of all time when a wild-eyed Kirk yells: "Sulu! Put that thing away!"

47

Re: Original Star Trek to be re-released with new CGI effects

darenhat wrote:

The biggest mistake I think they made with Voyager was sticking to the 'Gilligan's Island' scenario. The final episode crashed and burned for me because I wanted to see the characters AT HOME and see how the characters (and the things they longed for) changed. There was no reason they couldn't have returned home in the third or fourth season. Remember: the show was called 'Voyager'...not 'Delta Quadrant'. Fresh thinking was NOT what this show was about IMO.

I found the later seasons more entertaining largely because the had some good eye candy (no, not just Jeri Ryan; I'm talking about the FX in some of the Borg episodes) as well as some good action stories like the one where they come across the USS Phoenix.

But it would have been nice if they'd had a few episodes where we see them coming to grips with returning home and where they go from here. As you said, there would have been nothing wrong with them coming home a couple of seasons sooner and having some more straightforward exploration episodes. Sadly, B&B never had enough imagination to come up with something like that.

And 'The Naked Time'? It features my favorite Star Trek line of all time when a wild-eyed Kirk yells: "Sulu! Put that thing away!"

ajb007/lol That line takes on added meaning in light of George's recent confessions. Personally, I loved Spock's line after he neck pinches Sulu: "Take D'Artagnian to sick bay." Classic stuff.

Last edited by TonyDP (2nd Oct 2006 17:14)

48

Re: Original Star Trek to be re-released with new CGI effects

"I, Mudd" was shown this past weekend. Overall, not a memorable episode, but you really should check out the beautiful shot of the USS Enterprise going into orbit around a ringed planet...


http://trekmovie.com/2006/10/15/i-mudd- … udio-clip/

49

Re: Original Star Trek to be re-released with new CGI effects

TonyDP wrote:

"I, Mudd" was shown this past weekend. Overall, not a memorable episode, but you really should check out the beautiful shot of the USS Enterprise going into orbit around a ringed planet...


http://trekmovie.com/2006/10/15/i-mudd- … udio-clip/

That's a sweet pic! Sure would be nice to actually see these episodes rather than be stuck with screen shots. ajb007/crap

50

Re: Original Star Trek to be re-released with new CGI effects

darenhat wrote:

That's a sweet pic! Sure would be nice to actually see these episodes rather than be stuck with screen shots. ajb007/crap

Hunting them down is a pill; my local channels are constantly changing the dates and times when they air. I just read a story this morning that the ratings for Trek Remastered were about the same as the Star Trek: Enterprise reruns they replaced. Not really surprising considering that many channels are banishing them to that no-man's land between midnight and 3:00am.

I'm pretty sure you can also find clips of a lot of the new stuff on YouTube. Just do a search on Star Trek Remastered and you should get some hits. The www.trekmovie.com site also usually posts some .mpg and .avi clips of the new footage after a few days.