26

Re: What Should Bond 22 Be?

I really like the idea of using Bloody Morgan's treasure to finance terrorism!  And having Craig's Bond encounter a bunch of 'gangstas' in NYC could easily be done, given the difference in times, without it turning into an anachronistic 'blacksploitation' schtick as it did in the early '70's.  Leave out the 'voodoo' stuff; maybe have Vesper's former lover laundering money through the rap industry...

ajb007/shifty 

I don't even think it should be called LALD...call it something new, add plenty of new elements...but have Bond tied into a chair, and have somebody bend his pinky finger back...back...back...SNAP!!  ajb007/amazed  Bond passes out...

And the subsequent shootout and death in the parking garage...have Bond's finger in a splint for the rest of the picture, as it was in the novel...

We don't need to re-do 'He disagreed with something that ate him' or the dragging over the coral reef---we don't even need to have another tropical location.  The treasure can have already been recovered---sealed up in a high-tech vault somewhere...

"Follow the money."  That's the advice for anyone seeking to unravel a conspiracy; this seems ripe for the next chapter in an arc begun by CR...

It wouldn't be impossible to do; not by a long shot.  Just a bit more 'outside the box' mentality---and since Eon are already there, why not?

I need an agent  ajb007/crap  ajb007/biggrin

Last edited by Loeffelholz (20th Nov 2006 23:40)

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

27

Re: What Should Bond 22 Be?

No remakes, no remakes, no remakes.

I don't need strict adherence to Fleming.  If there are some interesting set pieces from the novels, yeah let's use them, but retelling old titles seems wrong.  Good screenwriters ought to be able to concoct their own good ideas.

My ideal next movie would start with a traditional gun barrel sequence and pick up exactly where this one left off -- on the steps of Mr. White's villa.  Bond would encounter trouble trying to spirit White away, which would form the basis of a rousing PTS.  The main film would deal with Bond tackling White's broader organization, using information White has given up under intense questioning.

I haven't worked out the details yet... ajb007/wink

Hilly...you old devil!

28

Re: What Should Bond 22 Be?

I agree...it should start at Mr. White's villa...

I'm not talking about 'strict adherence to Fleming'---but now, when they seem to be having some success with it, seems (to me) a good time to mine the literary material for unused elements; just brainstorming, that's all.   

No remakes; amen.  But there's a lot of good stuff in the books to be had---good, solid, character-grounded building blocks---which will of course need imaginative original writing to flesh out.

Strict avoidance of Fleming is what I'm worried about  ajb007/insane

Last edited by Loeffelholz (21st Nov 2006 00:04)

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

29

Re: What Should Bond 22 Be?

Loeffelholz wrote:

Strict avoidance of Fleming is what I'm worried about  ajb007/insane

Avoidance of Fleming *could* work *IF* it's done correctly, but again, that if is a big if...

30

Re: What Should Bond 22 Be?

DAWUSS wrote:
Loeffelholz wrote:

Strict avoidance of Fleming is what I'm worried about  ajb007/insane

Avoidance of Fleming *could* work *IF* it's done correctly, but again, that if is a big if...

Bond minus Fleming equals 10 minus 10.

31

Re: What Should Bond 22 Be?

These comments are really great.  And, I really understand the reluctance to accept remaking any of the the old Bond films. 
However, I just wanted to make the case further for LALD as Bond 22. 
SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T READ LALD THE NOVEL. 








The novel involves set pieces that have already been filmed.  Leiter's near death by shark has been in LTK, and the keel hauling we have seen in FYEO.  And of course, the characters of Solitare and Mr. Big, Tee Hee, etc. we have seen in the film LALD.  So, I am totally in agreement with those people who feel that to include these scenes and characters in Bond 22 would probably not be a good idea. 
But, hear me out! 

There are other plot elements in LALD the novel that have not been filmed. 
- there is a train that is bombed.  Now, I could very well imagine the scriptwriters working with this.  For example, a train explosion would tie in very well (almost too well perhaps) with the idea of Bond versus terrorism.  Perhaps expanding the train explosion into a terrorist attack might be a way of making this part of LALD relevant.
- there is a scene where Bond is tortured: this time, his little finger is broken by Tee Hee.  Now, we did see a lighter version of this (sans broken finger) in the Roger Moore film.  But, to have a broken finger scene in the next movie would probably be the "carpet beater" scene.  This is not to say that every Bond film subsequent needs to have a torture scene.  But, this kind of scene would give Daniel Craig something to do as an actor.  Also, the broken finger might be good because it's a slight connection with the dialogue between Vesper and bond in CR (If all that's left of you is your smile and your little finger, you'd still be more of a man than anybody I know--That's because you know what I can do with my little finger).  Now, this is a very tenuous connection, but there might be something there.
- the LALD book gives a lot of time to the Bond-Leiter relationship.  This is something i would love to see.  As I said previously, jeffrey wright is an amazing actor and the chemistry between him and Craig is excellent.
- I have read that CRaig wants to continue exploring the Bond character.  the LALD novel would allow him to do this.  He would have to react to the news about Leiter.  The last sentence in the chapter with the keel hauling has Bond crying for the first time since he was a child.  This is an amazing moment for Bond the character, and I would love to see an actor like Craig handle a moment like this.   

Now, instead of adhering strictly to the book, of course there should be changes made.  Perhaps it might be worthwile to make changes like the following:
- Change the main villain.  Don't have him be Mr. Big.  Maybe have him be this French Algerian boyfriend of Vesper's.  Maybe have him be some kind of head of some gang or something, analogous to Mr. Big's organization in LALD.  Instead of black Harlem, perhaps Algeria as the backdrop. 
- Don't include the keel-hauling scene or the Leiter/shark scene.  In CR the book, there were scenes (like the two men in straw hats bomb scene and the cane/knife from behind attack in the casino scene) that were changed for the film.  I suggest that these sorts of changes be made to LALD.  Perhaps have Leiter injured in some kind of attack.  This would again make the terrorism more of a palpable and real threat in the film.
- the Title: I personally would love to have the new film, if based on LALD, be called Live and Let Die.  I understand, though, the reluctance people might have to this.  So, perhaps a title that has not been used, such as Risico or The Portrait of a Lady or Quantum of Solace, and incorporate elements of those short stories into the plot.  But, to have LALD as the title would be wonderful.

Finally, I would consider such a film to be not a "remake" of the original LALD, since the novel is different and distinguishable from the film. 
Don't get me wrong: I love Bond films.  It's just that seeing CR made me feel that it's the Bond of the books that is a more interesting character to me than the Bond of the films. 

What do you guys think?

32

Re: What Should Bond 22 Be?

Eloquently and persuasively stated, Mr. B  ajb007/cheers  I'm with you.  Call it something else...and those multitudes who've never read Fleming will be none the wiser  ajb007/shifty

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

33

Re: What Should Bond 22 Be?

Thank you L for your post!!  My feelings exactly!  I hate remakes like the next fella, but a new film based on LALD the novel would not technically be a remake since the Roger Moore film was only a loose adaptation of the source novel and took many liberties as such.  Personally, I love the film LALD; I think it's a great film.  And, I love the films to death. 

Just to add a few extra points:
- a new film could also introduce a character, a No. 1 baddie who is the boss of Le Chiffre, Mr. White, and others in this "organization."  Should this organization be SPECTRE?  I don't think that the name "SPECTRE" be used, again, because it would perhaps offend those fans who want to see (rightly so) the old films untouched.  But, there should be an organization a la SPECTRE, and there should be a character like Blofeld.  I would love to see a revamped Blofeld character.  Remember the scenes with Mr. White in CR.  Mr. White seemed to pride the integrity of his "organization" as an entity where members know "who to trust," etc.  If you then read the character description of Blofeld in Thunderball the novel, you would see that Blofeld is a character with more integrity, shall we say, than what seems to be protrayed in the early Bond films.  This kind of character depth would make the Blofeld character a rich one, especially in the hands of a bona fide actor.  Make Blofeld a character who is not some old guy who sits down all the time stroking his cat.  Make him a flesh and blood character that has values.  Make him a physical threat to Bond (at least one that might be able to give Craig's Bond a run for his money if ever EON decides to film YOLT's climactic battle between Bond and Blofeld).  Make him have some kind of character arc.  The great thing about CR and Le Chiffre was that the villain had a motivation for his actions (recall the scene where he is nearly killed by the African terrorist in the hotel room).  Give a new Blofeld a similar motivation.  Don't make him just another cardboard cutout, but give him a history or some depth.  This kind of treatment would justify the filmmakers relying more heavily on the books as source material for future Bond films.  This would also make the future films appealing to Bond fans by giving everyone "traditional" Bond elements. 
- Finally, and I hate to add this.  Since the book Blofeld trilogy is Thunderball-OHMSS-YOLT, but since Thunderball has been done (and since there are, I assume, legal entanglements over the rights with Kevin McClory), I would say make a film Blofeld Trilogy, LALD-OHMSS-YOLT, and have these three films be the next films for Craig.  I have to go now, so this post will be continued....

34

Re: What Should Bond 22 Be?

I neither hope noe believe Bond 22 will be a remake of a previous film. It will be made from an origional script. It will probably feature the gunbarrel in its traditional place and perhaps Q and/or Moneypenny. The overall style of CR will remain in place. I think Bond will be set on fighting mr. White's organisation and finding out more about him. This is what I hope, anyway!

35

Re: What Should Bond 22 Be?

I would enjoy seeing a strong Craig 'trilogy' which feature original Fleming titles as well. "Risico" "Property of a Lady" (which has a great tie-in with Bond serving Dench's M) and "The Hildebrandt Rarity" are all titles itching to be made. As stated above, there are plenty of scenes from the Fleming canon that can be pilfered to make for an exciting Bond adventure. I'm currently reading Titan Books release of the James Bond comic strip 'Octopussy' This is an excellent example of how a short story can be strengthenend into an exciting 'full' format and still be true to the story. The Moore film irritates me for the simple fact that they shrugged an exciting story aside, with a simple mention of the original plot in the story, but eschewing it so that the screenwriters could do whatever they wanted.

CR did an excellent job of fleshing out a skeletal framework. There's no reason this couldn't be done for two more films.

Another scene which I think has some potential is the extended rescue of Tiffany on board the cruise liner in Diamonds are Forever. I was enthralled with Bond 'mountaineering' outside the porthole of his cabin.

36

Re: What Should Bond 22 Be?

darenhat wrote:

I'm currently reading Titan Books release of the James Bond comic strip 'Octopussy' This is an excellent example of how a short story can be strengthenend into an exciting 'full' format and still be true to the story.

those comic strip versions are excellent, for just the reason you stated
the 1st creative team did fairly straight, if compressed, adaptations of the major novels
then the 2nd team was left with tMwtGG, tSWLM, Octopussy, The Living Daylights and the Hildebrandt Rarity, all of which they rewrote into major actionpacked espionage adventures in the style of the films while retaining the guts of the source material
Octopussy in particular I also thought would have made a better film than the film that finally got made
and it was that comic strip version of Spy I was thinking of above, when I suggested they could finaly bring in Vivienne Michelle and Bonds Toronto mission - a simple shift in balance, instead of 2/3 of the story being Ms Michelles biography, they made a proper adventure of the mission Bond summed up in half a chapter - and it involves defectors, assassinations, and SPECTRE!

someone said in another thread theres hints on the CR promo website that Bonds teenage ski-instructor may be a character (ie corpse) in Episode 2, so maybe Flemings story wont be wasted after all
the short story From A View To A Kill could also make for a decent 20minute sequence early in the film, another title where the filmmakers didnt touch the story
its even got a gadget in it! (the periscope hidden in the shrubbery)

Last edited by caractacus potts (22nd Nov 2006 18:34)

37

Re: What Should Bond 22 Be?

I think there are some very good Flemming titles and chapter titles that can be used, and it would be very cool if "the Craig trilogy" only used Flemming titles. But I think "The Hildebrandt rarity" sounds a bit .... how should I put it?
Hildebradt is a name that makes me think of the Heidi books or possibly Austin Powers. It's  there with "The Shawshank redemption" (exellent movie!) on a list of bad movie names. Sorry.

38

Re: What Should Bond 22 Be?

Risico I always thought was a fantastic title. Sounds very powerful to me. I´m spanish, though, so I don´t know how does that sound to an english speaker. But it´s a Fleming title.

39

Re: What Should Bond 22 Be?

I speak Dutch and Risico is dutch for 'risk' or chinese for 'rise' I believe. It doesn't sound very Bondian but it is a Fleming title. I would like to see a much longer title.

40

Re: What Should Bond 22 Be?

I'd rather they go for adapting Fleming titles closer to the originals than most of the previous films have been.  Part of the reason "Casino Royale" is so good is they stuck reasonably close to both Fleming's plot and its spirit, updating only where necessary.  I'm not sure today's writers are quite as gifted at coming up with wholly original plots or characters, as has been demonstrated these many, many years.

41

Re: What Should Bond 22 Be?

Gassy Man wrote:

I'd rather they go for adapting Fleming titles closer to the originals than most of the previous films have been.  Part of the reason "Casino Royale" is so good is they stuck reasonably close to both Fleming's plot and its spirit, updating only where necessary.  I'm not sure today's writers are quite as gifted at coming up with wholly original plots or characters, as has been demonstrated these many, many years.

Well said.  I thought that the CR writers did an amazing job.  Fleming, however, did most of the hard work coming up with the stories.  Bond 22 writers might be well advised to stick close to the original novels.  At least one can hope for such.

42

Re: What Should Bond 22 Be?

LONG time no post here. I'm surprised this hasn't come up, but wouldn't "The Spy Who Loves Me", as in the latter half of the novel, be perfect for Craig? Of course you can build on it, tie in the insurance money scandals with terrorism or something,  but the idea of Bond just finding an innocent girl, trapped in a bad situation with bad people, in a motel in some small town, with no way out, would be perfect. It was one of my favorite Ian Fleming books, and I know you couldn't do the actual story to a "T" (Being it was told in third person by the female character, uhh, forget her name), but portraying Craig in that “real life Bond”, the gritty, b****** type character, that would make for one good movie.

And when it comes to “On Her Majesty’s Secret Service” being re-made….
I don’t know. It would either be the best James Bond movie ever made, or a total failure, and a kick in the face to the already fantastic current movie. With Craig, it could work. You just can’t go over-the-top, keep it real, like they did in the first one.

43

Re: What Should Bond 22 Be?

funkeyj65 wrote:

LONG time no post here. I'm surprised this hasn't come up, but wouldn't "The Spy Who Loves Me", as in the latter half of the novel, be perfect for Craig? Of course you can build on it, tie in the insurance money scandals with terrorism or something,  but the idea of Bond just finding an innocent girl, trapped in a bad situation with bad people, in a motel in some small town, with no way out, would be perfect. It was one of my favorite Ian Fleming books, and I know you couldn't do the actual story to a "T" (Being it was told in third person by the female character, uhh, forget her name), but portraying Craig in that “real life Bond”, the gritty, b****** type character, that would make for one good movie.

.

I agree that they should use whatever Ian Fleming material they can, but in TSWLM case, I think Fleming himself established when he sold the rights that EON could only use the title, not the storyline, for a movie. I´m not sure if that still applies or not.

44

Re: What Should Bond 22 Be?

VC_Dirty Mind wrote:

I speak Dutch and Risico is dutch for 'risk' or chinese for 'rise' I believe. It doesn't sound very Bondian but it is a Fleming title. I would like to see a much longer title.

Risico sounds bondish to me. Goldfinger or Dr.No are Fleming, as Bond as it gets, and short.