51

Re: Gay Scene????

Lava... that is really REALLY creepy.

52

Re: Gay Scene????

Nightshooter wrote:

Lava... that is really REALLY creepy.

I know ajb007/amazed Some of the less than genuine merchandise leaves a lot to be desired!!

53

Re: Gay Scene????

jetsetwilly wrote:

Secondly, CnB is rampantly homophobic...

I only ocassionally read CnB so I'm not really in a position to comment; however, there were quite a number of CnB contributors at the L.A. opening several of whom were gay (or at least their same-sex partners were!) and those who weren't had no apparent issue with those who were. Again, I'm not terribly familiar with what goes on at CnB, but first hand knowledge suggests you're making a gross exaggeration.

54

Re: Gay Scene????

jetsetwilly wrote:

Eon have presented a grand total of three homosexual characters in the whole series - Rosa Klebb and Wint & Kidd.

I take issue with this only because I believe you've omitted two: Jacoba Brink (Bibi's trainer in FYEO) and the hotelier in [i]MR. Brink is far more overt than Klebb and I think actually intended by EON as a sort of [i]mea culpa for "sandbagging" characters like Klebb or heterosexist jokes like Wynt and Kidd and the concierge ... the last, I think, representing EON's final entry in cringe-inducing stereotypes (if you ignore Stacey, that is).

55

Re: Gay Scene????

I think we should send this to the CnB site just to remind them of what most people think of their opinions ajb007/lol

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DANIEL-CRAIG-TOIL … dZViewItem

How do people think of these things eh ajb007/confused???[/quote]

my bids in ajb007/embarrassed

56

Re: Gay Scene????

PoorMansJB wrote:
jetsetwilly wrote:

Secondly, CnB is rampantly homophobic...

I only ocassionally read CnB so I'm not really in a position to comment; however, there were quite a number of CnB contributors at the L.A. opening several of whom were gay (or at least their same-sex partners were!) and those who weren't had no apparent issue with those who were. Again, I'm not terribly familiar with what goes on at CnB, but first hand knowledge suggests you're making a gross exaggeration.

Before we get into any confusion here:

CnB = Craig Not Bond (or whatever name it goes by these days)

CBn = CommanderBond.net

I doubt that CnB people were at the opening (unless they were hurling insults at anyone daring to cross their "picket line".

I'm sure a number of commanderbond.net people were there and jsw isn't calling them homophobic.

57

Re: Gay Scene????

lavabubble wrote:

I am not going to rise to the anti-gay comments, I just ignore them as I think they are unecessary. They are little do do with JB being gay and more to do with personal prejudice.

Whilst I don't thing we'll ever see a gay Bond (considering the direction this thread is taking) it might be interesting to see a gay villain who would push the boundaries a little, just to change the dynamics of the villians motivations (and although I would be fine with that I know a lot of gay folks would see it as a bad thing).

As I've said before, I don't really think that Bond films need full frontal, I am not convinced that there is anything it would bring to the film unless they are going to release a 15 rated film or a directors cut 18 rated DVD edition.

  I agree with lavabubble, being that, and please forgive my ignorance, I don't even know what CnB is, the URL, and have no knowledge of them, but I think that the twisting of homosexuality is a falsification on tabloid intervention. I would rather ignore it, however, I do think that after not 21 films, and as bad as this sounds, a woman never being shown nude, why in the H*ll would they show a man on man nude scene? Even after seeing realistic soy films such as Day of the Jackal, where the Jackal was shown involved in sexual intercourse with a man in his shower, that was a stretch back in the 70's, I think that the notion of a full frontal would be crude, immoral, and only a pleasrue of the flesh, with no indicative intentions other than for women and gays to get off.

  Think about it, possible, though highly improbable, women are pictured nude in film more than men, and that is statistically proven, neglecting pornographic natured films. THey would be smarter to show a woman nude, or a woman and Craig nude, than just Craig alone, or even worse, with a man.

  A poster recently put up, "This is the biggest piece of ******** I've ever heard", something to that effect. ALl I can say is that, without exception, I concur.

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Re: Gay Scene????

I'll admit to not having known a lot about this site before, but I believe that the ContactMusic website--one of the main promoters of the "Craig wants a gay Bond" story--is nothing more than tabloid rubbish that has a distinctive anti-Craig bias.  Behold their latest revelation:

http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/ar … ss_1015526

Accordingly, Daniel Craig is scared to make Bond 22 because CR has been too much of a success.  I've seen these Craig quotes before, and I've never found even a hint of fear in them.  Heck, the CM article itself doesn't show where Craig says he's scared.  As I wrote earlier, I think Craig's "gay" comments were a joke, or perhaps an "up yours" to his detractors, that the media exploited; this ContactMusic article shows that the media are indeed interested in little more than stirring the pot.

Vox clamantis in deserto

59

Re: Gay Scene????

Predator wrote:
PoorMansJB wrote:
jetsetwilly wrote:

Secondly, CnB is rampantly homophobic...

I only ocassionally read CnB so I'm not really in a position to comment; however, there were quite a number of CnB contributors at the L.A. opening several of whom were gay (or at least their same-sex partners were!) and those who weren't had no apparent issue with those who were. Again, I'm not terribly familiar with what goes on at CnB, but first hand knowledge suggests you're making a gross exaggeration.

Before we get into any confusion here:

CnB = Craig Not Bond (or whatever name it goes by these days)

CBn = CommanderBond.net

I doubt that CnB people were at the opening (unless they were hurling insults at anyone daring to cross their "picket line".

I'm sure a number of commanderbond.net people were there and jsw isn't calling them homophobic.

Absolutely; I totally meant CraigNotBond, not CommanderBond.net.  Some of my best friends use CBN.  Well, maybe not best friends - let's not give them too much promotion ajb007/biggrin  But CBN is a great, unbelievably thorough site, and it's their misfortune to be tarred with similar initials to The Other Place.  If there are gay users of CraigNotBond, then I can only say good luck to them.

If I can return to PoorMansJB's other point about Jacoba Brink and the effete hotel man, and also the suggestion about Sir Hilary; Klebb and Wint & Kidd are the only overt homosexual representatives in the series.  Brink's devotion to Bibi certainly has sapphic undertones, but no more than Irma Bunt and her girls.  The overriding idea is that she wants the best for Bibi as a pupil (wouldn't you disapprove of a teenage girl hurling herself at a man old enough to be her grandfather?)  I've always perceived Sir Hilary to be bookish and mannered, the kind of man you often find loitering around the darker recesses of the library in the university with ink on his fingers and sticky tape on his glasses.  There's no hint of campery in George Baker's performance.

The concierge, yes; a Queen par excellence.  No idea what he's doing there (particularly with that cut glass English accent; in Rio?  Really?).  Purely a cheap laugh.  But Bond makes no reference to his sexuality - nor did he say anything about Wint & Kidd's.  Unlike many films and tv shows of the sixties and seventies, it's pretty clear that Bond isn't being cruel to The Gay because he is The Gay.  There is no "Fetch my shoes" moment for the homosexual characters.  That's different, and interesting.  And it means they haven't dated quite as badly as some of their contemporaries.

Founder of the Wint & Kidd Appreciation Society.

@merseytart

60

Re: Gay Scene????

Predator wrote:

Before we get into any confusion here:

CnB = Craig Not Bond (or whatever name it goes by these days)

CBn = CommanderBond.net

Thank you, yes, my bad; makes much more sense then. Unfortunate acronyms ...

61

Re: Gay Scene????

jetsetwilly wrote:

Pussy Galore is no longer a lesbian in the film of GF, and she is a much better character as a result.

JSW, I loved your post, but I have to take issue with this. IMO the cinematic Pussy was very much a lesbian (until the roll in the hay with Bond) due to her clothes, her being with women, her aggressiveness and her attitude towards Bond. She wasn't as overt as Wint + Kidd (and I may be the only person here who has this opinion) but I believe that she was a lesbian who was 'converted' by Bond; thus proving that Bond is capable of literally changing a woman's sexual orientation. ajb007/biggrin

"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman

62

Re: Gay Scene????

How the hell can you put a gay scene in a  Bond film as this will go against everything that makes Bond well Bond,
It`s really all about the cars the guns the gadgets and the women I mean it shouldn`t be allowed.
Bond girls YES Bond guys NO!!!!

63

Re: Gay Scene????

Savior Sephroth wrote:

...It`s really all about the cars the guns the gadgets and the women I mean it shouldn`t be allowed.

And there's me hoping for a decent plot, outstanding performance by the actor, believeable action sequences and a touch of wit.

ajb007/tongue

64

Re: Gay Scene????

jetsetwilly wrote:

I've always perceived Sir Hilary to be bookish and mannered, the kind of man you often find loitering around the darker recesses of the library in the university with ink on his fingers and sticky tape on his glasses.  There's no hint of campery in George Baker's performance.

Since I raised the topic of Sir Hilary, let me clarify.  I agree that George Baker's performance as Bray is completely without indication of sexuality (or of much else, save a kindly nature and devotion to his work).  What I really meant was that Bond's masquerade as Bray seems to include playing him as gay, not necessarily in stereotypical mannerisms but in his actual stating that "I've never had much to do with young ladies."  Maybe that line is intended to convey bookishness rather than homosexuality, but certainly the girls initially think he's immune to their charms -- Joanna Lumley says "I know what he's allergic to", and both Ruby and Helen state that they thought he "didn't like girls."

Just wanted to clarify where I was coming from... ajb007/smile

Hilly...you old devil!

65

Re: Gay Scene????

Since I started to have sex with other men, I have found out that there is a lot of "straight" men that have sex with other men. And I mean A LOT! They are everywhere! So why would'n Bond be one of them?

66

Re: Gay Scene????

Because ACTUAL straight men don't sleep with other men. It is part of being straight. The whole not sleeping with other men thing.

67

Re: Gay Scene????

zer_matt wrote:

Since I started to have sex with other men, I have found out that there is a lot of "straight" men that have sex with other men. And I mean A LOT! They are everywhere! So why would'n Bond be one of them?

1) TMI ajb007/embarrassed

2) Straight comes in black, white and shades of grey depending on which way you look at it. A lot of men that have casual sex with other men don't indentify as gay or bisexual. Admitting/labelling what they do implies that there is some emotional attachment - in the vast majority of cases I think that there might not be.

3) Bond is never going to be gay or genuinely sexually attracted to a man. I am a lesbian and I see that very clearly and understand that the mainstream will never be ready for that. We are a thousand times more likely to get a Bond of ethnic origin (or whatever the uber PC term is!!) than a gay Bond.

The other thing is though, if the notion of a gay/bi JB kills the franchise due to the percentage of the planet's population that remain disapproving and their being put off going to see the film and the film flopping at the box office, would the risk have been worth it?? I don't see as it would enhance the film in any way so it will simply not happen.

68

Re: Gay Scene????

lavabubble wrote:

The other thing is though, if the notion of a gay/bi JB kills the franchise due to the percentage of the planet's population that remain disapproving and their being put off going to see the film and the film flopping at the box office, would the risk have been worth it?? I don't see as it would enhance the film in any way so it will simply not happen.

Really? Do you think so? Only a very few would mind in this country I think. And also a lot of them that never would have seen a Bond movie, would problably go and watch it because of a gay Bond.

69

Re: Gay Scene????

Most religions are anti homosexuality. There are alot more religious people than there are homosexual people, infact I would guess there are considerably more openly homophobic people than homosexual people. Therefore I think a gay bond would be a big mistake in the franchise and would be a very stupid move.

70

Re: Gay Scene????

But what would be the point? Bond has always been a heterosexual character, what on earth would be the point of making him have a gay experience? Forget alienating MANY fans, that isn't what I'm talking about, it is just pointless, it adds nothing to the character.

71

Re: Gay Scene????

It's probably political correctness gone mad. It's homophobic because he has not had a gay experience.

A line from "The Rock" springs to mind.

"I really believe that anyone
who's even thinking about
having a child in this world is coldly considering an act of cruelty."

72

Re: Gay Scene????

zer_matt wrote:
lavabubble wrote:

The other thing is though, if the notion of a gay/bi JB kills the franchise due to the percentage of the planet's population that remain disapproving and their being put off going to see the film and the film flopping at the box office, would the risk have been worth it?? I don't see as it would enhance the film in any way so it will simply not happen.

Really? Do you think so? Only a very few would mind in this country I think. And also a lot of them that never would have seen a Bond movie, would problably go and watch it because of a gay Bond.

The thing is, with all due respect, the people that are a major problem are not those in the slightly more liberal European countries such as Denmark, Sweden, Holland etc but generally the UK and US where the real money is made on films like this.

Lets be realistic, the wheels nearly fell off the wagon when "Bond was Blonde" so I don't think that announcing a gay Bond would do anyone any favours.

At the end of the day, the Bond girls are as much a part of the franchise as the PTS, the tux and the flash cars whether people care to admit it or not. Taking away the outlandish gadgets has caused a sharp intake of breath in some quarters, god knows what would happen if we have DC locking lips with Clive Owen or some Hollywood pretty boy!!

As has discussed before, the better idea would be to have a gay adversary or for someone like Villiers to be gay and feature more in the films in some capacity if there is a real desire for the issue of homosexuality to be dealt with in these films - which is debateable even in my opinion.

73

Re: Gay Scene????

Savior Sephroth wrote:

How the hell can you put a gay scene in a  Bond film as this will go against everything that makes Bond well Bond,
It`s really all about the cars the guns the gadgets and the women I mean it shouldn`t be allowed.
Bond girls YES Bond guys NO!!!!

This may be ranting, but wait 'till there's a scene with Bond wearing an army lt. colonel uniform.  Bond is a naval commander.  Other 'ridiculisms' ...
* Letting a women dictate his fashion sense
* Not caring about his once-beloved martini
and a few more, but don't want to rant;)

It seems Eon (if this interview is factual) will push the envelope further and further, and a lot of double Ohs will accept it, until finally they even delete 1. Bond's 00 number and 2.  His very name. And then, in the name of progress, some will still say "Yaay! It's a Bond film!" 
______________________

"Surely, you're joking!!?"
"Don't call me Shirley."

2 007

74

Re: Gay Scene????

Soon there will have to be  a character of every type just to not offend one group. M will have to become a animal rights activist, bi sexual, transexual, disabled, black woman.

This may be ranting, but wait 'till there's a scene with Bond wearing an army lt. colonel uniform. Bond is a naval commander. Other 'ridiculisms' ...
* Letting a women dictate his fashion sense
* Not caring about his once-beloved martini
and a few more, but don't want to rant;)

She chose him one suit. He is a busy man, he can't just pop home and buy his tux. He seemed to care quite a bit when first ordering his martini. You can hardly compare those to him having a gay experience. The people who are bothered about the tiniest of continuity errors would probably kill themselves if he turned gay.

75

Re: Gay Scene????

s96024 wrote:

....The people who are bothered about the tiniest of continuity errors would probably kill themselves if he turned gay.

Spot on. That about sums it up.