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Re: Question regarding Plot

darenhat wrote:

Something occurred to me the other day and I'm not sure if I missed something in the story. Maybe someone here can clear it up. In CR, Dimitrios sends Mollaka character the password 'Ellipsis' and Mollaka gets up and runs off, obviously having some errand he needed to address concerning the planned bombing. So what was it he was supposed to do? The term 'ellipsis' was apparently the security password to get through the airport, so why was that being sent to the bombmaker? If there was something the Mollaka had to do, what was it? And how did his demise at the embassy effect the plan? Mollaka's death seemed to have no ramification on the terrorist plot, so why did Dimitrios send him the password?

This slightly bugs me too.
I just assume that Mollaka was then to proceed to Miami to blow the plane up - or pass a bomb and the password on to the guy who would do the job, so that there is no direct link to Dimitrios. Again, I assume the bomb Mollaka has with him is for a different job.

A lot of assuming going on there, but I can live with it.

YNWA 96

The Unbearables

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Re: Question regarding Plot

There's a short scene on Le Chiffre's boat. Le Chiffre says he (meaning Mollaka) was under surveillance from the British secret service. He also wonders aloud if Dimitrios can be trusted. Dimitrious responds by saying that he doesn't care, he only cares about his reputation. Dimitrious then says that he has a replacement and all he needs is the particulars and payment.

In short, Mollaka was the bomb maker and the bomber before Bond intervened.

Last edited by Moore Not Less (27th Mar 2007 22:12)

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Re: Question regarding Plot

Funny how the bomb mollaka has is some huge bomb looking thing. Then the bomb that's used is a tiny little keyring ajb007/amazed.

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Re: Question regarding Plot

Moore Not Less wrote:

There's a short scene on Le Chiffre's boat. Le Chiffre says he (meaning Mollaka) was under surveillance from the British secret service. He also wonders aloud if Dimitrios can be trusted. Dimitrious responds by saying that he doesn't care, he only cares about his reputation. Dimitrious then says that he has a replacement and all he needs is the particulars and payment.

In short, Mollaka was the bomb maker and the bomber before Bond intervened.

Thanks, MNL. I figure Mollaka must have been intended as the original bomber, but couldn't remember if anything was said to that effect. However, if Dimitrios said something about needing the particulars, I can't imagine what he was referring to if he already had the scheme in place.

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Re: Question regarding Plot

s96024 wrote:

Funny how the bomb mollaka has is some huge bomb looking thing. Then the bomb that's used is a tiny little keyring ajb007/amazed.

Different bombs for different jobs, like screwdrivers. There's no reason to think the bomb Mollaka had in his pack was the same one he would have used at the airport. The pipe bomb might have been tough to get through customs.

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Re: Question regarding Plot

Sir Miles wrote:
darenhat wrote:

Something occurred to me the other day and I'm not sure if I missed something in the story. Maybe someone here can clear it up. In CR, Dimitrios sends Mollaka character the password 'Ellipsis' and Mollaka gets up and runs off, obviously having some errand he needed to address concerning the planned bombing. So what was it he was supposed to do? The term 'ellipsis' was apparently the security password to get through the airport, so why was that being sent to the bombmaker? If there was something the Mollaka had to do, what was it? And how did his demise at the embassy effect the plan? Mollaka's death seemed to have no ramification on the terrorist plot, so why did Dimitrios send him the password?

This slightly bugs me too.
I just assume that Mollaka was then to proceed to Miami to blow the plane up - or pass a bomb and the password on to the guy who would do the job, so that there is no direct link to Dimitrios. Again, I assume the bomb Mollaka has with him is for a different job.

A lot of assuming going on there, but I can live with it.

darenhat wrote:
Moore Not Less wrote:

There's a short scene on Le Chiffre's boat. Le Chiffre says he (meaning Mollaka) was under surveillance from the British secret service. He also wonders aloud if Dimitrios can be trusted. Dimitrious responds by saying that he doesn't care, he only cares about his reputation. Dimitrious then says that he has a replacement and all he needs is the particulars and payment.

In short, Mollaka was the bomb maker and the bomber before Bond intervened.

Thanks, MNL. I figure Mollaka must have been intended as the original bomber, but couldn't remember if anything was said to that effect. However, if Dimitrios said something about needing the particulars, I can't imagine what he was referring to if he already had the scheme in place.

I guess, like MNL, it was always perfectly clear to me that Mollaka was the original bomber. And exactly what was Mollaka going to do after getting the call from Demetrios? Who knows? A bomber's work is never done, I suppose. Maybe he needed to pack, or call the newspaper to stop home delivery while he's overseas. But I think you're mistaken about the sequence of events.

There's no reason to think Mollaka was going to do anything but watch the end of the cobra-mongoose bout, or maybe grab a beer. The reason he left in a hurry is because he spotted Bond's colleague, who kept touching his ear as if he was wearing a listening device, watching him. His retreat to the Embassy was for sanctuary, never imagining in a million years that Bond would go after him there. That's a belief shared by a few AJBers, judging from their indignation that M didn't fire Bond's ass in the apartment scene.

Another point I'd like to make: "Ellipsis" isn't just a password. I say this because a while back someone scoffed that Bond could have guessed the password --- well, Ellipsis is the name of the whole operation, like "Operation Thunderball" --- It's the code name for LeChiffre's unauthorized plan to use a client's money to buy an airline's stock, blow up the company's chief asset and short sell the stock. On the boat, he asks his henchman how much time before "Ellipsis" expires, meaning how long do we have for the plan to succeed. The guy tells him 36 hours. Remember -- when you sell short, you're under a deadline to replace the shares you borrowed, whether they've gone up or down. Obviously, he needed the plane blown up before the deadline so that he could return cheaper shares and make his money. So when Bond "guesses" the password, he's simply using his head. Could the name of the operation also be the password? Hackers use those kinds of strategies all the time for figuring out passwords. Try the mark's children's names, his birthdate, combinations of both, whatever. Granted Bond was awfully lucky to get it the first try, but he is, after all, James Bond.

As for the "particulars" Demetrios mentions, that just means the details. He's got a guy willing to replace Mollaka, he just needs the details and the money. If I say to you, "hey wanna blow something up for me? Something high profile" You might say, if you were a bomber, "Sure Highhopes. I'm always willing, if the money is right. What's the job?" The specifics of the job would be the particulars.

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Re: Question regarding Plot

I have a question reguarding the plot which I alluded to in my "Cellular Royale" thread.

After playing poker for four hours, Le Chiffre returns to his hotel room as Valenka has called for him. Bond, having placed a bug in Le Chiffre's inhaler, grabs the parcel containing his gun and cell phone and follows him up to the fourth floor. As we all know, Le Chiffre is confronted by a royaly ****ed off Obanno and his Lieutenant. After threatening Le Chiffre and his girlfriend, the two men leave only to end up in a fight with Bond.

My question is: What did a pistol-packing 007 exactly hope to accomplish by following Le Chiffre up to his room with Vesper at his side no less? We know Le Chiffre possesses a lot of useful information and can't be killed. This is also why I find it reckless of 007 to grab a table knief and charge after Le Chiffre after he gets wiped out.

Bond's following of Le Chiffre seems like a poor setup on the part of the writers to confront Bond with Le Chiffre's clients.

Any thoughts?

"My acting range? Left eyebrow raised, right eyebrow raised..."

-Roger Moore

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Re: Question regarding Plot

As a spy, I suppose it never hurts to listen in on the target...especially when there's a chance the suspect might be involved with any pending terrorist plots.

The part with the knife, IMO, was excellent and is one of the only parts of the film that makes sense to me and falls within character. Early on, when M informs Bond that there's going to be a hifh-stakes poker game, Bond replies "Good. We know where he'll be. Do you want a clean kill or do you want to make an example of him?" Instead, M wants to play cards with him, on the off chance that he might get chatty if he loses. I like the idea that Bond, as a blunt instrument, basically says "To blazes with playing games, I'm just gonna kill him." Since Vesper wasn't going to give him another chance to do things M's way, he resorts to his own plan.

Last edited by darenhat (28th Mar 2007 20:13)

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Re: Question regarding Plot

I agree, darenhat...I think he wanted to surveil Le Chiffre, and the violence erupted as a result of this proximity.

And I also think you're spot-on with regard to Bond with the knife...a recurrence of the 'recklessness' which characterized his much commented-upon embassy shoot-up, and perhaps one of the final vestiges of the 'developing' 00 agent he is becoming.

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

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Re: Question regarding Plot

darenhat wrote:

As a spy, I suppose it never hurts to listen in on the target...especially when there's a chance the suspect might be involved with any pending terrorist plots.

The part with the knife, IMO, was excellent and is one of the only parts of the film that makes sense to me and falls within character. Early on, when M informs Bond that there's going to be a hifh-stakes poker game, Bond replies "Good. We know where he'll be. Do you want a clean kill or do you want to make an example of him?" Instead, M wants to play cards with him, on the off chance that he might get chatty if he loses. I like the idea that Bond, as a blunt instrument, basically says "To blazes with playing games, I'm just gonna kill him." Since Vesper wasn't going to give him another chance to do things M's way, he resorts to his own plan.

Yes, listening in on your enemies is indeed helpful, but at their front door door step? Even when you have an earpiece? What the hell did he need Vesper for?

Being a strong opponent of the reboot, I guess I just don't like seeing this side of Bond. I don't want to see him as a "blunt instrument" making irrational decisions. Are you honestly going to tell me that Bond was going to kill Le Chiffre in public with all his minions surrounding him? That would have been suicide. I guess I just prefer the experienced Bond who knows exactly what to do.

But you're right, as Bond is supposed to be rash and inexperienced, this stunt definitely fits his personality. But I can't help but become angry at some of the stupid things he is doing.

Last edited by Tee Hee (28th Mar 2007 20:27)

"My acting range? Left eyebrow raised, right eyebrow raised..."

-Roger Moore

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Re: Question regarding Plot

Tee Hee wrote:

Being a strong opponent of the reboot, I guess I just don't like seeing this side of Bond. I don't want to see him as a "blunt instrument" making irrational decisions. Are you honestly going to tell me that Bond was going to kill Le Chiffre in public with all his minions surrounding him? That would have been suicide. I guess I just prefer the experienced Bond who knows exactly what to do.

Well, we don't know for sure that the killing was going to be too public...after all, I don't think you can get much more public than his killing of Dimitrios, and no one seemed to care too much about that ajb007/insane.

As far the earpiece, I assumed it was a short range receiver. And I think Vesper just happened to follow Bond down the hall.

Last edited by darenhat (28th Mar 2007 20:32)

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Re: Question regarding Plot

I agree with what everyone says about grabbing the knife as another sign of Bond's recklessness as a new double-0.

As for picking up the package, I think Darenhat is right: he just needed the cell phone in order to pick up exactly where LeChiffre was in the building. It makes sense to me that Bond would want to check out what his enemy is up to between poker hands. And to be armed while doing so.

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Re: Question regarding Plot

Tee Hee wrote:

Being a strong opponent of the reboot, I guess I just don't like seeing this side of Bond. I don't want to see him as a "blunt instrument" making irrational decisions. Are you honestly going to tell me that Bond was going to kill Le Chiffre in public with all his minions surrounding him? That would have been suicide. I guess I just prefer the experienced Bond who knows exactly what to do.

And you'll get him, I think, starting with #22; that's the good news. 

Indeed, the notion of attacking Le Chiffre with a knife---while surrounded by his entourage---is suicide...which, to me, is exhilarating.  Still, as I said, I believe this is the final vestige of the 'developing' (or 'rookie,' if you will) 007.

Last edited by Loeffelholz (28th Mar 2007 20:51)

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

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Re: Question regarding Plot

darenhat wrote:

Well, we don't know for sure that the killing was going to be too public...after all, I don't think you can get much more public than his killing of Dimitrios, and no one seemed to care too much about that ajb007/insane.

Very true. There are people walking all around them as the whole confrontation is taking place, yet nobody catches eye of the knief or the stabbing.

darenhat wrote:

As far the earpiece, I assumed it was a short range receiver. And I think Vesper just happened to follow Bond down the hall.

Seems like a bit of a stretch. I could perhaps accept that the ear piece had a short range, but not the presence of Vesper. Bond should have just sent her to the room in the first place. And Vesper is supposed to be the "bloody idiot?"

Loeffelholz wrote:

I believe this is the final vestige of the 'developing' (or 'rookie,' if you will) 007.

I pray this will be so. Now only if they can bring in Q and replace that statue Villiers with Moneypenny. ajb007/shifty

Last edited by Tee Hee (28th Mar 2007 21:00)

"My acting range? Left eyebrow raised, right eyebrow raised..."

-Roger Moore

115

Re: Question regarding Plot

darenhat wrote:

Well, we don't know for sure that the killing was going to be too public...after all, I don't think you can get much more public than his killing of Dimitrios, and no one seemed to care too much about that ajb007/insane.

No one seemed to care too much because they thought Dimitrios was a new exhibit. After all, it was a Body World's exhibition. ajb007/biggrin

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Re: Question regarding Plot

Moore Not Less wrote:

No one seemed to care too much because they thought Dimitrios was a new exhibit. After all, it was a Body World's exhibition. ajb007/biggrin

Yes, but the difference is that Dimitrios's insides were not on the outside. I suppose Bond could of arranged that too with nobody noticing. ajb007/lol

"My acting range? Left eyebrow raised, right eyebrow raised..."

-Roger Moore

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Re: Question regarding Plot

Tee Hee wrote:
darenhat wrote:

As far the earpiece, I assumed it was a short range receiver. And I think Vesper just happened to follow Bond down the hall.

Seems like a bit of a stretch. I could perhaps accept that the ear piece had a short range, but not the presence of Vesper. Bond should have just sent her to the room in the first place. And Vesper is supposed to be the "bloody idiot?"

I think taking Vesper with him was the right thing to do. Walking around near LeChiffre's suite on your own could invite trouble, having someone with you could just divert suspicion enough (certainly to the untrained eye} - or give you some valuable seconds to use.

YNWA 96

The Unbearables

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Re: Question regarding Plot

Sir Miles wrote:
Tee Hee wrote:
darenhat wrote:

As far the earpiece, I assumed it was a short range receiver. And I think Vesper just happened to follow Bond down the hall.

Seems like a bit of a stretch. I could perhaps accept that the ear piece had a short range, but not the presence of Vesper. Bond should have just sent her to the room in the first place. And Vesper is supposed to be the "bloody idiot?"

Vesper didn't become a "bloody idiot" until she refused to give him the money to buy back in. ajb007/lol

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Re: Question regarding Plot

The script had an omitted bit of dialogue, here, where Vesper talks about her own father's gambling problems...and that he always thought he could win...

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

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Re: Question regarding Plot

Tee Hee[quote=darenhat wrote:

As far the earpiece, I assumed it was a short range receiver. And I think Vesper just happened to follow Bond down the hall.
Seems like a bit of a stretch. I could perhaps accept that the ear piece had a short range, but not the presence of Vesper. Bond should have just sent her to the room in the first place.

Just to let you know the full workings of the earpiece.  The earpiece is a sonic wireless earpiece and works like a deaf aid at the bank when switched to the T position.  Bank counters have a speaker that sends out an induction loop, basically a sonic field that is picked up by the wireless device.

So, the bug transmits to the phone, the phone sends out an induction loop to the sonic wireless earpiece in Bond's ear so he can listen in.

Looking at the size of the bug it would have an incredibly small range, as a bug powered from a 9 volt battery can only send to about 150 metres.

Incidentally, the bug Bond uses is far to small to be a working bug, but everything else works fine.  And you can buy the sonic wireless earpieces and induction loops on eBay.  All you need is a bug (Ebay again), and a mobile phone with a radio facility that picks up FM signals in the 90 - 101 range.  Plug the induction loop into the phone jack, screw in the earpiece, drop off the bug and you are now James Bond!

Sorry for being a geek. ajb007/lol

Last edited by IanT007 (4th Apr 2007 22:01)

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Re: Question regarding Plot

So the wife and I decided to watch CR again last night (it had been a while for both of us) and I did tend to pick up on a few things that I looked past previously. But maybe someone can help me with this little question (forgive me if someone has already asked it)

Who was the unlucky guy who was shocked to find the dead general in his boot outside the casino?
Mathis claimed that the bodies were 'useful'. The police were examining this guy when all of a sudden a cell phone goes off revealing the cars hidden secret. We're we supposed to know who this 'innocent bystander?' was? I remember everyone in the theater laughing, but all I remember thinking was 'poor guy, what did he do to deserve that?'

Does anyone have any explanation?

Last edited by darenhat (19th Jun 2007 17:53)

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Re: Question regarding Plot

darenhat wrote:

So the wife and I decided to watch CR again last night (it had been a while for both of us) and I did tend to pick up on a few things that I looked past previously. But maybe someone can help me with this little question (forgive me if someone has already asked it)

Who was the unlucky guy who was shocked to find the dead general in his boot outside the casino?
Mathis claimed that the bodies were 'useful'. The police were examining this guy when all of a sudden a cell phone goes off revealing the cars hidden secret. We're we supposed to know who this 'innocent bystander?' was? I remember everyone in the theater laughing, but all I remember thinking was 'poor guy, what did he do to deserve that?'

Does anyone have any explanation?

I assumed when watching the film that he was one of Le Chiffre's entourage.  If I remember correctly after Mathis states that the bodies can still be useful Bond responds that this event will keep Le Chiffre guessing who is coming after him next, implying that Le Chiffre would wonder who killed the General and when they would be coming after him.

"A blunt instrument wielded by a Government department.  Hard, ruthless, sardonic, fatalistic.  He likes gambling, golf, fast motor cars.  All his movements are relaxed and economical". Ian Fleming

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Re: Question regarding Plot

Yeah darenhat, I remember thinking that too. But highhopes replied later that it was one of Le Chiffre's goons. Easy to overlook as they're even more anonymous than the lead villain.

"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

Roger Moore 1927-2017

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Re: Question regarding Plot

What a wonderful thread, even if it took 45 minutes to read through all nine pages!!!

All this banter over CR convinced me that I am right having it along with FRWL on top of my list of favorite oo7 films.

Some observations that I felt were lacking regards CR regards was that this film was supposed to show how Bond became the slick oo7 spy everyone so loved.

In fact they ended up with a charecter who bleeds like Fleming's Bond, but rather than being a "blunt insturment" has instead a "movie star ego".

Bond is the ultimate dupe in this film! He is manipulated by "M" into going after his targets, instead of just being assigned. Bond is easily decieved by Vesper and believes LC about Mathis. Bond gets pi**ed off at the bomber in Madagascar and stupidly storms the Embassy. In Montenegro Bond recklessly drops his cover. At the Casino he gets mad at having lost and goes after LC with a knife. Bond then fails to follow up on the cash from the game - after bartering with Leiter for it, and even at the end of the film he still must rely on M to tell him that "the b**ch" Vesper saved his life. Really, this oo7 may have been based on the real life George Lazenby.

Hopefully in the next film, Bond will not instantly become the old Connery Bond or (gag!) another Brosnan/Moore, but will continue getting beat up and learning (or not) about being a double-o the hard way.

Compliments to highhopes and Darenhat for a great exchange and for others comments as well!

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Re: Question regarding Plot

7289 wrote:

Compliments to highhopes and Darenhat for a great exchange and for others comments as well!

Thanks 7289...admittedly I think I got under highhopes skin a little too much, and he's an ardent defender of CR so you couldn't ask for a better person to give insight to the film's positive attributes.

After watching it a few times, I'm still lukewarm on CR primarily for the reason you mentioned. I don't mind the reboot concept, but I think they 're-invented' Bond a bit too much. I'm not of the opinion that Fleming's Bond in the novel CR is as 'blunt' as the film's was. And to suddenly transform Bond in the sophisticate that we later see in one film will be unwieldy and I hope they don't do it. At the same time, though I yearn for the 'honed' Bond that we have seen in the previous films.

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