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Re: Bond's Scottish Treasure

Love the idea--for a 60s/70s Bond.  Would've been great with say, Lazenby in OHMSS, or Moore in LALD.  But now it just seems so dated and quaint, and with the added (now that the times have changed) undercurrent of, can't Bond make his own bed?  Is he lame or what?  It's an odd sort of fastidiousness these days, maybe even for when Fleming was writing, he had (for his day) some rather old fashioned ideas about that sort of thing.  Enchanting to be sure, but perhaps EON has wisely sidestepped this one all along?  Maybe the new improved--with added style and panache--EON could do it, though.  Wouldn't say boo to it if done well.  Sorta how I like everything Bond, just do it well.

Gotta admit, the more lone wolf this new Bond the better, I feel.  I somehow get the notion, Craig's Bond hardly has a regular bed he sleeps in much less a flat w/housekeeper.  Sure nice rereading that bit about May, thanks for that, Loeff.

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Re: Bond's Scottish Treasure

superado wrote:

On a practical basis, only bits of the literary Bond are readily appropriate for the screen, which is sad since the success of the reboot rode on that merit, bringing Bond back to basics.  Having all the rest tidbits, like boys night with Bill Tanner, May, Bond's eccentric, self-pampering rituals, would be a dream come true for literary fans and quite frankly, pulling it off with style and panache is too much a challenge for EON and company.

So, they rode on the success of bringing Bond back to the Fleming basics, but bringing other Fleming elements would be too much of a challenge? Don't follow your logic at all. Didn't you doubt that they could make Casino Royale a success too?

Loeffelholz wrote:
Barry Nelson wrote:

I wouldn't the Bond films to make the mistake the Batman films did where they put everyone, Alfred, Robin, Bat Girl, 3 villians and a girlfriend in one movie.  You don't want a Bond movie where you wonder where Bond is.  Perhaps May in one movie, Moneypenny in another and then Q in another.

A fair point, Barry, and you're absolutely right.  We don't want it too cluttered.  I think the first step would be a bit less M---or, at least, have her stay back in her office once the assignment's been given...

It's a really good point Barry makes- I don't really want a large regular supposrting cast; I dont want Bond to feel like he's got a family that all hugs at the end of each movie. Otherwise you get to that horrible point Lethal Weapon 4 found itself in with a cast which had cluttered up with Joe Pesci, Rene Russo and Chris Rock and a tagline that actually said 'All the faces you love'. Keep it nice and simple.
I wouldn't hate seeing a bit of Bond's lifestyle, but only if it really gives us some bearing on the story and his character. As these new films focus on Bond as a character as never before it would be less out of place than ever before, but still; I'm just not convinced I'd buy May as a character.

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blueman wrote:

Love the idea--for a 60s/70s Bond.  Would've been great with say, Lazenby in OHMSS, or Moore in LALD.  But now it just seems so dated and quaint, and with the added (now that the times have changed) undercurrent of, can't Bond make his own bed?  Is he lame or what?  It's an odd sort of fastidiousness these days, maybe even for when Fleming was writing, he had (for his day) some rather old fashioned ideas about that sort of thing.  Enchanting to be sure, but perhaps EON has wisely sidestepped this one all along?  Maybe the new improved--with added style and panache--EON could do it, though.  Wouldn't say boo to it if done well.  Sorta how I like everything Bond, just do it well.

Yeah, I agree. Having a housemaid to boil you an egg in the morning and iron your clothes just doesn't suit Bond, especially this new Bond. As I said earlier, a military man should be able to look after himself and it's large part of all training to keep your kit clean and make your bed.
Perhaps he has a cleaner in at the most, but I can't imagine a circumstance where that would make an interesting scene in a spy thriller.

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Re: Bond's Scottish Treasure

Maybe he uses Jiffy Maid?  Or rather, a succession of Jiffy Maid-type services, as he keeps, er, mis-using the girls and getting them in dutch with the boss, lol.

Last edited by blueman (22nd Mar 2007 13:25)

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Re: Bond's Scottish Treasure

It wouldn't surprise me for Craig's Bond to utilize May...and I don't think it's a stretch. As an individual who spends a lot of time traveling, it makes sense to have someone tend to the house. One thing I don't want to see is Bond doing his laundry, squirting stain remover with dead-eye accuracy on the blood spots of his starched shirt. May's presence would be perfectly explicable, given the fact the Bond doesn't have time to deal with these things himself, and isn't going to trust just anybody to do it.

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Re: Bond's Scottish Treasure

emtiem wrote:
superado wrote:

On a practical basis, only bits of the literary Bond are readily appropriate for the screen, which is sad since the success of the reboot rode on that merit, bringing Bond back to basics.  Having all the rest tidbits, like boys night with Bill Tanner, May, Bond's eccentric, self-pampering rituals, would be a dream come true for literary fans and quite frankly, pulling it off with style and panache is too much a challenge for EON and company.

So, they rode on the success of bringing Bond back to the Fleming basics, but bringing other Fleming elements would be too much of a challenge? Don't follow your logic at all. Didn't you doubt that they could make Casino Royale a success too?

First of all, why don't you work on your tone.  Why do you have to be so abrasive?

On your question, you yourself doubt that this particular literary element, May the housekeeper, wouldn't work in today's environment.  So, how can you yourself think that EON is capable of pulling it off?  Aren't you contradicting yourself?

On the whole gimmick of bringing Bond back to basics, do you really think they did?  Did CR's Bond nail down the literary character to a "t", or even "for the most part?"  I don't think so.  Grittiness does not make that automatically so.  But don't you agree that the positive critical reception CR received was based on, and heavily promoted as "bringing Bond back to basics?"  So, because my prediction of CR not succeeding the way it did, was wrong, does that make any other informed prediction I may have about EON's abilities automatically wrong, or at least lesser in validity than any point or prediction you might make? 

The difference between you and me, apart from you being on the side of the "winning outcome," is that your stance is largely energized by your ego and the need to totally render anyone else in disagreement as utterly wrong and stupid.

Last edited by superado (22nd Mar 2007 16:50)

"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....

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Re: Bond's Scottish Treasure

If you want to row, do it in your own time via PMs.

Back to topic please.

Founder of the Wint & Kidd Appreciation Society.

@merseytart

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Re: Bond's Scottish Treasure

darenhat wrote:

It wouldn't surprise me for Craig's Bond to utilize May...and I don't think it's a stretch. As an individual who spends a lot of time traveling, it makes sense to have someone tend to the house. One thing I don't want to see is Bond doing his laundry, squirting stain remover with dead-eye accuracy on the blood spots of his starched shirt. May's presence would be perfectly explicable, given
the fact the Bond doesn't have time to deal with these things himself, and isn't going to trust just anybody to do it.

I agree.  I don't think it would indicate some sort of 'lameness' on Bond's part at all.  He's rarely home; it would make sense to have someone bring in the mail, etc. 

Even spy thrillers have 'down' time; moments for characters to interact---particularly early on, as things are set up for the plot to follow.  May would be an effective device to convey Bond's state of mind (particularly if that is to be an element in the story, as I suspect it might be).  I think it would be a nice change from Q. 

As for expanded casts...Lately (pre-CR), Bonds have always had Q, Moneypenny, M, either Bill Tanner and/or Robinson, other MI6 personnel such as doctors, psychological evaluators, etc., plus other secondary CIA/Leiter types...not to mention other allies in the field such as Zukovsky, et al...Hardly new in the franchise.  I'm just talking about one housekeeper...for two minutes, tops...

What the hell.  This place could be boring---in-between new films, with the absence of confirmed facts to discuss---without the occasional target being waved about, isn't it?  People like something to shoot at  ajb007/lol

Plus, we 'Flemingists' die hard...especially when we've had a taste  ajb007/cheers

Last edited by Loeffelholz (23rd Mar 2007 08:31)

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

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Re: Bond's Scottish Treasure

jetsetwilly wrote:

If you want to row, do it in your own time via PMs.

Back to topic please.

If it's okay I'll try to respond to Superado's post without getting personal or resorting to insults about metal problems- I'm able to debate without that. If you feel I'm being antagonising feel free to give me a kick up the bum!

Right, first of all I didn't cast any doubt over Eon's ability to portray May on screen. It's a housekeeper who does some ironing- not sure how you can get that wrong! My doubts over it are entirely based around the fact I don't feel the concept works all that well. Fleming wasn't perfect in the first place and his novels do contain faults which the movie series shouldn't seek to replicate faithfully: the primary objective of the movie series is not to place Fleming's novels up on screen but to create entertaining movies. If they were aiming to exactly reproduce the novels the film of Goldfinger would have a much worse plot, for example! So they leave stuff out, change it, do whatever they have to in order to get the feel and spirit of the books, which is the whole idea of a screen adaptation- not to place the exact printed word on screen.
Secondly, Fleming's books weren't written with Bond living in 21st Century Britain in mind. Although it's not unthinkable to have 1950's Bond with a cook and cleaner it's pretty hard to swallow nowadays. They could do it, but they could also have Bond driving around in his 1920's Bentley- and that would be just as odd!

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Re: Bond's Scottish Treasure

Loeffelholz wrote:

I agree.  I don't think it would indicate some sort of 'lameness' on Bond's part at all.  He's rarely home; it would make sense to have someone bring in the mail, etc.

I don't have any massive problem with your post- it all comes down to personal taste really, but this bit I don't understand. What's to do when you're out of the flat? The mail doesn't need 'bringing in' from anywhere, the fridge is empty, the dishes aren't getting any dirtier... what's to do? Water the plants? To be honest, Bond doesn't strike me as a houseplant kind of guy! ajb007/smile

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Re: Bond's Scottish Treasure

emtiem wrote:

I don't have any massive problem with your post-

Golly.  Thanks!  ajb007/biggrin

emtiem wrote:

it all comes down to personal taste really, but this bit I don't understand. What's to do when you're out of the flat? The mail doesn't need 'bringing in' from anywhere, the fridge is empty, the dishes aren't getting any dirtier... what's to do? Water the plants? To be honest, Bond doesn't strike me as a houseplant kind of guy! ajb007/smile

There are any number of reasons, I would think, for an operative like Bond to keep a visible presence in his flat during absences---even if she doesn't 'live' there.  She could be given an intelligence background, as far as that goes...  Why must Bond be a serial womanizer, drive an Aston Martin, fuss over the temperature of his sake and straighten his tie whilst underwater?  Because he's James Bond, and these aren't just spy thrillers, IMRO.

But, of course, I had no idea that domestic help no longer exists in 21st Century London.  Naturally, that complicates things a bit  ajb007/lol  A few people still have it here in the states, and they're not all millionaires.

But May's real purpose, lest we forget, would be to serve as a foil for Bond, give him an added dimension and thus advance a character point in the piece.

Never have I advocated that Eon 'place the exact printed word on screen,' but I think CR has pointed out a fundamental fallacy in assuming that Fleming elements = Non-Entertaining Movie.  Obviously, the novel adaptations are finished.  From here, if they choose, Eon will have to cherry-pick bits and pieces of unused elements, which is all I'm suggesting in this thread. 

Your opinion on May's inclusion has been noted, however, and I appreciate your input.  Cheers!  ajb007/cheers

Last edited by Loeffelholz (23rd Mar 2007 19:59)

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

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Re: Bond's Scottish Treasure

"May was fiddling about with the breakfast things---her signal that she had something to say.  Bond looked up from the center news page of The Times.  'Anything on your mind, May?'

"May's elderly, severe features were flushed.  She said defensively, 'I have that.'  She looked straight at Bond.  She was holding the yoghurt carton in her hand.  She crumpled it in her strong fingers and dropped it among the breakfast things on the tray.  'It's not my place to say it, Mister James, but ye're poisoning yersel'.'

"Bond said cheerfully, 'I know, May.  You're quite right.  But at least I've got them down to ten a day.'

"'I'm not talking about yer wee bitty smoke.  I'm talking 'bout this'---May gestured at the tray---'this pap.'  The word was spat out with disdain.  Having got this off her chest, May gathered steam.  'It's no recht for a man to be eating bairns' food and slops and suchlike.  Ye needn't worry that I'll talk, Mister James, but I'm knowing more about yer life than mebbe ye were wishing I did.  There's been times when they've brought ye home from hospital and and there's talk you've been in a motoring accident or some such.  But I'm not the old fule ye think I am, Mister James.  Motoring accidents don't make one small hole in yer shoulder or yer leg or somewhere.  Why, ye've got scars on ye the noo---ach, ye needn't grin like that, I've seen them---that could only be made by buellets.  And these guns and knives and things ye carry around when ye're off abroad.  Ach!'  May put her hands on her hips.  Her eyes were bright and defiant.  'Ye can tell me to mind my ain business and pack me off back to Glen Orchy, but before I go I'm telling ye, Mister James, that if ye get yerself into annuiter fight and ye've got nothing but yon muck in yer stomach, they'll be bringing ye home in a hearse.  That's what they'll be doing.'"

having racked my brains to find out who would be the best actress to play may;well as some people might say "it's a no brainer" it's got to be mrs doubtfire.i haven't seen her in a film since;i might be mistaken,but i think it was mrs doubtfire.anyway she would be perfect,any objections?

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Re: Bond's Scottish Treasure

Well...I think Eon would be (rightly) afraid of putting Robin Williams' drag alter-ego into a Bond picture...

As for actual casting...I've no idea.  Older, but not too old.  Matronly, but not too off-putting.  Funny, but not over the top.

It's a tall order.

Last edited by Loeffelholz (24th Mar 2007 00:20)

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

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Re: Bond's Scottish Treasure

Loeffelholz wrote:

As for actual casting...I've no idea.  Older, but not too old.  Matronly, but not too off-putting.  Funny, but not over the top.

It's a tall order.

I'm with Moonraker5 on this one- Annette Crosbie. For those who don't know her from her TV work in the UK, she's in Calendar Girls.

Oh, and emtiem- 1930s Bentley ajb007/smile.

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Re: Bond's Scottish Treasure

Surely the casting is obvious for this one, and we even have her recent screen test with Craig to prove the point: Katherine Tate.

Can't you just see it? Katherine scolding Bond for being out all hours on his 'so-called' exciting job, where he 'supposedly' meets hundreds of young, attractive, available women. And of course she'd comment on his mid-life crisis with that ridiculous Aston Martin parked outside. She'd go on to give him advice about how much more sensible a nice job in a bank would be, how he could get together with her neighbour's sister's daughter (nice girl), then he could settle down and get one of those people movers...

What more do we need to replace the Q scenes?

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Re: Bond's Scottish Treasure

Bill Tanner wrote:

Surely the casting is obvious for this one, and we even have her recent screen test with Craig to prove the point: Katherine Tate.

Can't you just see it? Katherine scolding Bond for being out all hours on his 'so-called' exciting job, where he 'supposedly' meets hundreds of young, attractive, available women. And of course she'd comment on his mid-life crisis with that ridiculous Aston Martin parked outside. She'd go on to give him advice about how much more sensible a nice job in a bank would be, how he could get together with her neighbour's sister's daughter (nice girl), then he could settle down and get one of those people movers...

What more do we need to replace the Q scenes?

I've only just seen her---for the first time---in that Comic Relief sketch she did with Craigger...my God, Bill, you might be onto something...

She seems almost as reviled (based on some of the comments in the "Poor Daniel Craig" thread) as he himself was, in some quarters, last year...it'd be the most talked-about 90 seconds in the film  ajb007/lol

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

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Barbel wrote:

Oh, and emtiem- 1930s Bentley ajb007/smile.

Yup- right you are; I had it down as a 1929 model, but it's a 1930 one- the last year they made it. So; only just a 30's car and designed in the 20's- so we're sort of both right! ajb007/wink

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Re: Bond's Scottish Treasure

Loeffelholz wrote:
emtiem wrote:

I don't have any massive problem with your post-

Golly.  Thanks!  ajb007/biggrin


Sorry- didn't mean that sound as businesslike/patronising as it appears to have come out! ajb007/smile

Loeffelholz wrote:
emtiem wrote:

it all comes down to personal taste really, but this bit I don't understand. What's to do when you're out of the flat? The mail doesn't need 'bringing in' from anywhere, the fridge is empty, the dishes aren't getting any dirtier... what's to do? Water the plants? To be honest, Bond doesn't strike me as a houseplant kind of guy! ajb007/smile

There are any number of reasons, I would think, for an operative like Bond to keep a visible presence in his flat during absences---even if she doesn't 'live' there.

Hmm.. no; that's making less sense to me, to be honest. If any spies are staking out his flat I doubt they'd be so bad at their jobs to mistake an eldery Scots lady for James Bond! Reminsd me of those episodes of Batman where Alfred used to be  decoy for Bats driving the Batmobile whilst he was elsewhere- Batsuit and all! ajb007/smile

Loeffelholz wrote:

But, of course, I had no idea that domestic help no longer exists in 21st Century London.  Naturally, that complicates things a bit  ajb007/lol


Now, now- no need to get sarky! ajb007/smile I'm sure it exists in a way- I know people who get cleaners in
and I suppose its possible that Bond could do that, but he just doesn't seem that type of guy to me. Being a busy chap it's possible I suppose, but I just wouldn't have thought he'd make all that much mess.


Loeffelholz wrote:

But May's real purpose, lest we forget, would be to serve as a foil for Bond, give him an added dimension and thus advance a character point in the piece.

Very true. I'm just not sure what would be added to Bond by her turning up in a film.

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Re: Bond's Scottish Treasure

Loeffelholz wrote:
Bill Tanner wrote:

Surely the casting is obvious for this one, and we even have her recent screen test with Craig to prove the point: Katherine Tate.

Can't you just see it? Katherine scolding Bond for being out all hours on his 'so-called' exciting job, where he 'supposedly' meets hundreds of young, attractive, available women. And of course she'd comment on his mid-life crisis with that ridiculous Aston Martin parked outside. She'd go on to give him advice about how much more sensible a nice job in a bank would be, how he could get together with her neighbour's sister's daughter (nice girl), then he could settle down and get one of those people movers...

What more do we need to replace the Q scenes?

I've only just seen her---for the first time---in that Comic Relief sketch she did with Craigger...my God, Bill, you might be onto something...

She seems almost as reviled (based on some of the comments in the "Poor Daniel Craig" thread) as he himself was, in some quarters, last year...it'd be the most talked-about 90 seconds in the film  ajb007/lol


Oh damn: ...actually... not... entirely... hating that idea! Gnng!
If they absolutely had to have a comedy character and not play the comedy through the main characters, that wouldn't be a terrible way to do it: certainly preferable to using Q again: that gag's rather been done. As long as she's not made up to look old! ajb007/smile

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Re: Bond's Scottish Treasure

Look, we can't ignore the fact that Bond's Scottish treasure is in fact Sean Connery.  If he were looking to return, why not cast him as May?  Have him in a dress and give him a feather duster and everything. 

Michael Caine did a great job in Batman, why couldn't Connery follow suit.  We should get a petition up and running.

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Re: Bond's Scottish Treasure

emtiem wrote:

Hmm.. no; that's making less sense to me, to be honest. If any spies are staking out his flat I doubt they'd be so bad at their jobs to mistake an eldery Scots lady for James Bond! Reminsd me of those episodes of Batman where Alfred used to be  decoy for Bats driving the Batmobile whilst he was elsewhere- Batsuit and all! ajb007/smile

Nothing I will say here is going to make any sense, I'm sure---your feelings on this issue are beyond well-established, now---but obviously, I wasn't saying that an elderly Scottish lady would be a decoy for Bond.

I said 'visible presence'...as in, there's someone home, making any B & E/penetration of the flat considerably more difficult to execute successfully without leaving a clue behind---such as a dead or unconscious housekeeper, for instance...

What she could add to Bond is limited only by the imagination of the screenwriter(s). 

Never mind; I know.  You don't like the idea  ajb007/lol

Last edited by Loeffelholz (25th Mar 2007 07:23)

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

47

Re: Bond's Scottish Treasure

I think May was OK in the books, but might be too old fashioned nowadays.
I think May as housekeeper to Bond, might've been compared to Mrs. Hudson as housekeeper to Sherlock Holmes.
To be unrealistic, why not get Judi Dench to play May, and bring back a Male "M" actor!

De Bleuchamp.

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Re: Bond's Scottish Treasure

De Bleuchamp wrote:

I think May was OK in the books, but might be too old fashioned nowadays.
I think May as housekeeper to Bond, might've been compared to Mrs. Hudson as housekeeper to Sherlock Holmes.

It doesn't have to be old-fashioned; it would naturally depend upon the presentation.

You couldn't do May exactly as she was written in the novels (which would indeed be perilously close to aping Holmes); I merely included the Fleming excerpt at the beginning of the thread to place the character in context for the legion of Bond fans who have never read the books---and thus likely never knew of the character's existence.

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

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Re: Bond's Scottish Treasure

Loeffelholz wrote:
De Bleuchamp wrote:

I think May was OK in the books, but might be too old fashioned nowadays.
I think May as housekeeper to Bond, might've been compared to Mrs. Hudson as housekeeper to Sherlock Holmes.

It doesn't have to be old-fashioned; it would naturally depend upon the presentation.

You couldn't do May exactly as she was written in the novels (which would indeed be perilously close to aping Holmes); I merely included the Fleming excerpt at the beginning of the thread to place the character in context for the legion of Bond fans who have never read the books---and thus likely never knew of the character's existence.

Forgive me for being the new guy who resurrects an old thread.

I do think the character of May would work, but for a few modern adjustments. Perhaps she is a trusted neighbor. Make her the widow of a retired MI-6 officer, that gives a bit of background and a reason to want to look after Bond as well as a reason for him to trust her implicitly.

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Re: Bond's Scottish Treasure

May will never work as long as "M" is played by a woman. Between those two clucking hens and a couple a nubile "Bond girls" with all that estrogen in a film the Bond charecter would come off like a well dressed Norman Bates!

Recast Dench as May, hire Gambon for "M" and maybe it could work.