Telegraph: James Bond is 'dated', Matt Damon says

James Bond is 'dated', Matt Damon says
By Sally Peck
Last Updated: 8:57pm BST 15/08/2007

Matt Damon has dismissed James Bond as being stuck in the 1960s while promoting his own new spy film.

Speaking from London, where his latest film, The Bourne Ultimatum, is having its UK premiere, Damon said: "Bond is an imperialist and a misogynist who kills people and laughs about it, and drinks Martinis and cracks jokes."

...

British director Paul Greengrass was more direct.

"The Bourne franchise is not about wearing Prada suits and looking at women coming out of the sea with bikinis on. It's about essence and truth, not frippery and surface," he said.


I think Matt Damon's influence is likely to be felt mainly in the world of marketing and public relations, where business school graduates the world over will ponder the case study known in the trade as The Bourne Inanity.

It's the one in which Matt Damon wakes up the morning of the British premiere of his new spy picture, hoping it will play as well there as it has in the States.

What could he, Matt Damon, do to help, he wondered as he dabbed shaving cream on his chin?

And then -- Inspiration!!

"I know!! I'll be an ******* and insult not only a beloved film institution, but a British film institution. That ought to get them lined up at the box office ..."

And Greengrass: All you Brits makes sure you take a pen and notebook to the theater with you. There will be a final exam on "Essence and Truth in the Jason Bourne Series" after each showing. Because, hey ... that's what it's about. Really.
«1

Comments

  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,988Quartermasters
    :)) Nicely stated, HH {[]

    The differences between these two franchises are, as the Bourne people continue to insist, quite pronounced. Both are good movie fun, but IMO it's a sweet irony that the one derided as being 'dated' is the one they'll still be making in ten to twenty years' time :007)

    Cheers to Bourne, and three very entertaining pictures ;) And, lest we forget, the spittle is only flying in one direction :)
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 21,708MI6 Agent
    I think there was some truth to their statements in the past, but after Casino Royale THEIR statements are dated!
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly Liverpool, UKPosts: 1,048MI6 Agent
    *sigh*

    Before this turns into another Bourne vs Bond debate, let's bear something in mind: both franchises are very good, very popular and very different. Just like Harry Palmer, Austin Powers, Matt Helm and Napoleon Solo. The two can quite happily co-exist.

    Attacking Bond is standard practice when one is promoting a spy film. You have to do it to differentiate yourself to the audience, because 007 so utterly dominates the term "spy" in the public's mind (try finding a newspaper article that deals with espionage and doesn't, at some point, reference Bond). So I have sympathy for the people behind Bourne who have to say "this is what we are not" to try and carve out their audience.

    This sniping is undignified, I agree; but Eon doesn't resort to sniping back, and so let's bear that in mind as this debate continues. Let's remember the word "class".
    Founder of the Wint & Kidd Appreciation Society.

    @merseytart
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    edited August 2007
    highhopes wrote:
    "I know!! I'll be an ******* and insult not only a beloved film institution, but a British film institution. That ought to get them lined up at the box office ..."

    Well it's hardly going to put me off; will it actually stop you going?

    The irony of insulting someone because he's bad mouthed your favourite films is pretty clear to see. If you're asking him to have some class... glass houses etc.

    And the BBC report does say:
    "The suave spy was "so anachronistic when you put it in the world we live in today", he said, but added that Bourne was no better or worse than Bond."
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    Attacking Bond is standard practice when one is promoting a spy film. You have to do it to differentiate yourself to the audience, because 007 so utterly dominates the term "spy" in the public's mind (try finding a newspaper article that deals with espionage and doesn't, at some point, reference Bond). So I have sympathy for the people behind Bourne who have to say "this is what we are not" to try and carve out their audience.

    Yeah exactly; Greengrass is a very political filmmaker so I'd be rather disappointed in him if he didn't spell out exactly why he hasn't made a Bond film and has made clear what values he believes in. I don't have to agree, but it doesn't mean that I can't respect his views. And he's probably getting a bit annoyed about being asked about someone else's film series when he's trying to sell his own, too.

    The really quite interesting part of the premiere coverage to me is this:
    Damon said he had not ruled out returning for a fourth film - provided that the British director Paul Greengrass also returned to the project.

    I'm sure I'd heard Damon dismissing the idea entirely when he was promoting Ocean's 13; this seems quite interesting (although I can't think where Bourne can go from here- isn't Ultimatum just sort of ending the Supremacy story? He can't go on the run from the CIA again, surely? :) )
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited August 2007
    Before this turns into another Bourne vs Bond debate, let's bear something in mind: both franchises are very good, very popular and very different. Just like Harry Palmer, Austin Powers, Matt Helm and Napoleon Solo. The two can quite happily co-exist.
    Absolutely. The two franchises both have their fans and in fact, some people are fans of both, so to insult Bond like this is IMO not only offensive but a little odd. I, for example, enjoy the Bourne films for similar reasons that I adore Bond, so hearing those comments aren't necessarily going to make me any more enthusiastic about seeing The Bourne Supremecy.
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • HowardBHowardB USAPosts: 2,737MI6 Agent
    Again I will state that I like the Bourne films very much. But, enough already from Matt Damon and Paul Greengrass slagging the Bond films. It would appear from their comments that Casino Royale does not exist. Greengrass is talented, but he looses me when he goes into his I am an artist and my Bourne films are works of art and Bond is politically incorrect rubbish mode. The new Bourne film is very good for what it is...basically a fast paced, hyper kinetic action film that makes some fairly routine stunts look like much more than they really are through clever editing. As far as having any depth to them, they aren't much deeper than the Die Hard films IMO. The Bourne films do it very well, but the secret black ops renegade CIA thing has been done to death going back to the 70's with Sam Peckinpah's "The Killer Elite".
  • 72897289 Beau DesertPosts: 1,691MI6 Agent
    I've only seen Bourne on TV, and only snippets at that. So when the new one came out I thought it might be fun to try it out. This in spite of the fact that Matt Damon looks like he just graduated from High School, and can't act any better than a brown papersack from the grocery store. And yes I have seen some of his other films.

    Since Mr. Damon and His Director has been so generous in praise for oo7, they can take a leap ... for all I care - and I won't spend a dime or a second of my time watching their chase movie!

    Comments like theirs inspired an idiot to attack this site recently, and like yelling "fire" in a crowded room I hold them responsible for that punks behavior.

    Boycott their efforts until they can make a film that stands on its on merit, and doesn't require an "anti-something" theme to get attention.
  • highhopeshighhopes Posts: 1,358MI6 Agent
    emtiem wrote:
    highhopes wrote:
    "I know!! I'll be an ******* and insult not only a beloved film institution, but a British film institution. That ought to get them lined up at the box office ..."

    Well it's hardly going to put me off; will it actually stop you going?

    The irony of insulting someone because he's bad mouthed your favourite films is pretty clear to see. If you're asking him to have some class... glass houses etc.

    And the BBC report does say:
    "The suave spy was "so anachronistic when you put it in the world we live in today", he said, but added that Bourne was no better or worse than Bond."

    I've already seen it, and enjoyed it for that matter. And I like Damon. I may be the only person who liked him in The Good Shepherd.
    I guess I'm just a little incredulous as someone who now does PR for a living, that it wouldn't occur to Damon and Greengrass to be gracious about a character that really made other movie spies possible. Especially in the land of the former's birth. If this is some calculated plan to draw attention to your movie, I don't think it's a great idea.
    And to be fair, the full quote is a bit more palatable.
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    He's really been pounding the publicity beat today has old Matt with proper studio appearances on a number of radio stations- came across as a really nice chap, actually. There was even the treat of hearing him do the 'Team America' 'MATT DAMON' quote, which is a lovely thing to hear him say :)

    And if you're a PR guy you should be familiar with the 'no publicity is bad publicity' quote- this little 'Bond is rubbish' debate has got them plenty of headlines in the papers and on the news (it was the main Entertainment headline on the BBC News site, one of the most visited websites in the world), and the only people who have taken it to heart are a handful of people on these forums, and it's not even going to stop them going to see it. So all in all, you'd be giving them bad PR advice to tell them to stop :)
  • Lady RoseLady Rose London,UKPosts: 2,667MI6 Agent
    This sniping is undignified, I agree; but Eon doesn't resort to sniping back, and so let's bear that in mind as this debate continues. Let's remember the word "class".

    {[]

    Eon have never resorted to attacking other franchises.When you're top of the food chain, there really is no need.

    Loeffs posted a recent interview in the Bourne not Bond thread where DC says:

    'On this topic, Craig had only good things to say about Bond's competitors at the multiplex. "Just look at the Bourne series, which are superb movies." he said. "They've kind of brought things to a grittier way, which I really appreciate in an action hero. I like to see these people really dig in.'

    That's how its done ;)
  • highhopeshighhopes Posts: 1,358MI6 Agent
    emtiem wrote:
    He's really been pounding the publicity beat today has old Matt with proper studio appearances on a number of radio stations- came across as a really nice chap, actually. There was even the treat of hearing him do the 'Team America' 'MATT DAMON' quote, which is a lovely thing to hear him say :)

    And if you're a PR guy you should be familiar with the 'no publicity is bad publicity' quote- this little 'Bond is rubbish' debate has got them plenty of headlines in the papers and on the news (it was the main Entertainment headline on the BBC News site, one of the most visited websites in the world), and the only people who have taken it to heart are a handful of people on these forums, and it's not even going to stop them going to see it. So all in all, you'd be giving them bad PR advice to tell them to stop :)

    Well ... gee ... no, emtiem, I've never heard that "no publicity is bad publicity." Thank you for sharing. I only wish you'd offered that insight earlier, before the department that I work for received a phone call from the governor's people -- a pretty rare occurence -- to come up with a response to a blistering LA Times editorial. I could have shrugged and said "Hey -- tell the governor to not get his shorts in a twist. Doesn't he know that 'no publicity is bad publicity?' It's working for Matt Damon, and he doesn't do half the box office Arnold did in his day ..." and hung up the phone. :))

    Just kidding, emtiem. I couldn't resist the sarcasm.

    You're right -- it's no big deal. Again, I like Matt Damon and I like Bourne. I'm sure Damon is a nice guy. I was simply struck by the remark because I just don't see any advantage in bashing Bond. As others have pointed out, it's not very classy and for that reason sounds odd coming from Damon, in fact. I think he would have gotten just as many headlines being gracious. Usually the people for whom "no publicity is bad publicity" are incapable of getting any other kind (i.e Paris Hilton). But I'm not really upset about it. Besides, I get a feeling the reporters are feeding him leading questions.
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    highhopes wrote:
    I think he would have gotten just as many headlines being gracious.

    What; genuinely? Do you really believe that 'DAMON SAYS BOND IS 'VERY NICE' SHOCK!' would make the front page of the BBC News page? :) Your Governor doesn't exactly need to make people aware of the fact he exists; whereas that's all the Bourne people need to do- get a headline (as long as it's not 'DREADFUL NEW BOURNE FILM SINKS AT THE BOX OFFICE' :D ) and you get more people who are aware that the film is out this week, and more bums on seats. And people being polite to each other doesn't exactly get much in the way of headlines! Apparently Daniel Craig said something gracious about Bourne this week- didn't make the papers or the BBC.
    But yeah, you're right about the reporters asking leading questions, I'm sure. It's a spy film; therefore ask about Bond. People like reading about Bond. I think that Greengrass really doesn't like Bond (he was on Radio 4 last night talking about Bond again and interestingly he refused to be drawn on whether he'd been asked to direct a Bond film or not... ) but he strikes me as a blunt kind of guy who says what he wants - he did direct Bloody Sunday, after all- so that's just who he is.
  • MyrddinMerlinoMyrddinMerlino Posts: 37MI6 Agent
    I think that Matt Demon has some trobule, because a good actor and a good film don't need to blame other franchise.
    However Casino Royale was a better film that all Bourne films, and Daniel Craig is a terrific actor.
  • spectre7spectre7 LondonPosts: 118MI6 Agent
    So that rules out Greengrass as a future Bond director. That's good news, as the last thing the series needs is cheap shakeycam.
  • actonsteveactonsteve Posts: 299MI6 Agent
    [quote=highhopesI guess I'm just a little incredulous as someone who now does PR for a living, that it wouldn't occur to Damon and Greengrass to be gracious about a character that really made other movie spies possible. Especially in the land of the former's birth. If this is some calculated plan to draw attention to your movie, I don't think it's a great idea.
    And to be fair, the full quote is a bit more palatable.[/quote]

    Thats the crux isnt it? Its just not cricket to diss the competitor to big up your own.

    This is definitely a PR campaign by the Bourne camp to they would say "bring a distance between their product" and Bond. They actually believe this guff and Damon has been on every media (Jay Leno) saying nasty things about Bond while bigging up his own product. Even Julia Stiles has joined in saying her character "isnt just a bikini walking out of the sea.." I bet Vesper Lynd is 100% more rounded the your character luv?

    They also miss the point. This weaknesses they point were in Casino Royale explored intelligently to such a degree that they became the Bond characters strengths. After all, if not you have a generic action hero..

    Just like face-cream boy Matt Damon..

    I actually think the Bourne camp were rattled by the success of Casino Royale.
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited August 2007
    actonsteve wrote:
    Even Julia Stiles has joined in saying her character "isnt just a bikini walking out of the sea.."
    The irony of this is that IMO Honey Rider was a much tougher and more interesting character than any female character in the Bourne films. ;) I would love it if Stiles's character was even half as sexy, tough, interesting and memorable as Honey. So using Honey as a comparison for why the Bourne films are better than the Bond films baffles me as IMO Honey is a major reason for why Bond is superior to Bourne. Nonetheless, this is not a zero-sum game. There is a place in the world for both Bond and Bourne and it would be nice if the Bourne people took a page out of Craig's book and stopped attacking Bond! :s
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    spectre7 wrote:
    So that rules out Greengrass as a future Bond director. That's good news, as the last thing the series needs is cheap shakeycam.

    Cheap? Watch it again and marvel at how camerawork which appears to be devised on the spot actually tells you everything you need to know. It's a very clever technique.
  • John DrakeJohn Drake On assignmentPosts: 2,564MI6 Agent
    actonsteve wrote:
    I actually think the Bourne camp were rattled by the success of Casino Royale.

    If so they responded in the right manner by making an excellent movie with The Bourne Ultimatum. Now it's up to Eon to make Bond 22 really special. This kind of competition is a good thing. It brings out the best in people. Eon raised their game with CR, now they have to do it again. There can be no slacking off or returning to the low standards of DAD.
  • Lady RoseLady Rose London,UKPosts: 2,667MI6 Agent
    Dan Same wrote:
    actonsteve wrote:
    Even Julia Stiles has joined in saying her character "isnt just a bikini walking out of the sea.."
    The irony of this is that IMO Honey Rider was a much tougher and more interesting character than any female character in the Bourne films. ;)

    The sad thing is Dan, she's probably referring to Jinx! I bet she doesn't even know who Honey is :))
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited August 2007
    Lady Rose wrote:
    Dan Same wrote:
    actonsteve wrote:
    Even Julia Stiles has joined in saying her character "isnt just a bikini walking out of the sea.."
    The irony of this is that IMO Honey Rider was a much tougher and more interesting character than any female character in the Bourne films. ;)
    The sad thing is Dan, she's probably referring to Jinx! I bet she doesn't even know who Honey is :))
    :)) So true, which considering her ignorance further shows just how ridiculous these attacks upon Bond truly are.
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond +++ Classified +++Posts: 569MI6 Agent
    The name's Bond_James_Bond
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    Lady Rose wrote:
    Dan Same wrote:
    actonsteve wrote:
    Even Julia Stiles has joined in saying her character "isnt just a bikini walking out of the sea.."
    The irony of this is that IMO Honey Rider was a much tougher and more interesting character than any female character in the Bourne films. ;)

    The sad thing is Dan, she's probably referring to Jinx! I bet she doesn't even know who Honey is :))

    Well they're hardly going to have a go at a film series for being stuck in the 60's and then criticise the characters who were only in the series in the 60's, are they? It'd be like saying that North By Northwest was 'too 50's' or Citizen Kane is 'too 40's'! Of course she's talking about Jinx!
  • spectre7spectre7 LondonPosts: 118MI6 Agent
    I'm afraid 'shakeycam' is a technique that is used to save time and to hide a director's lack of ability when it comes to setting up scenes using long takes and fluid camerawork. It really is very easy to do which is why it's OK for television but has no place on the big screen. It's also very tough on the audience. I've read very many posts from people who suffered motion sickness while watching the last two Bourne films.
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    spectre7 wrote:
    I'm afraid 'shakeycam' is a technique that is used to save time and to hide a director's lack of ability when it comes to setting up scenes using long takes and fluid camerawork.

    That's just a falsehood. It takes more ability to give a film feel like this is given by the camera technique used here and to also ensure that whereas it looks like it's all been shot without planning it has in fact all been planned out perfectly to ensure that everything is presented to the audience. It is some parts of the audience's lack of ability to appreciate it that is the problem.
  • highhopeshighhopes Posts: 1,358MI6 Agent
    emtiem wrote:
    spectre7 wrote:
    I'm afraid 'shakeycam' is a technique that is used to save time and to hide a director's lack of ability when it comes to setting up scenes using long takes and fluid camerawork.

    That's just a falsehood. It takes more ability to give a film feel like this is given by the camera technique used here and to also ensure that whereas it looks like it's all been shot without planning it has in fact all been planned out perfectly to ensure that everything is presented to the audience. It is some parts of the audience's lack of ability to appreciate it that is the problem.

    I don't disagree with you that it's a valid technique that has been used to great effect, emtiem, but you can overdo it as well. Martin Scorsese is known for his tracking shots, but a whole movie of them? OK -- someone will point to Hitchcock's Rope; but I would argue that film is best known for its lack of conventional cutting than anything else. Which is too bad, because the technique overshadows what is a fine film. I didn't have a problem with the shaky camera in The Bourne Ultimatum except when he visits the brother. It should have been a quieter scene and the shaky camera did the opposite, I think.
  • MoniqueMonique USAPosts: 696MI6 Agent
    I totally agree highhopes. It takes me out of the moment, it's jarring at times and distracting. I don't know why you always have to be so hostile about your opinion emtiem. If the audience doesn't like it, it's their perogative to enjoy it or not. It doesn't matter how innovative or brilliant a technique is if it's unpleasing or bothersome to the eye.
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,686MI6 Agent
    And my opinion is that it's not; if you allow yourself to be distracted, then it is. Didn't worry me at all and added to the film a great deal. The only time I even noticed it was when it wasn't there; i.e. when Bourne's looking through his telescope at a piece of paper half a mile away he can keep his hand deadly still! :D

    Pardon me if I've offended you, but for someone to accuse the director of lacking ability just because that someone can't appreciate a technique or is easily distracted seems very hostile and rude to me; I'm not sure I can apologise if it seems that I am replying in kind.
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly Liverpool, UKPosts: 1,048MI6 Agent
    edited August 2007
    What is it with Bourne that gets people so het up? Bit of calm please people or this will be yet another topic closed.

    It is perfectly valid to criticise a director's style. I am sure that Michael Bay's film by a thousand cuts directorial flourishes are technically very clever, but personally I find it thoroughly irritating and ever so slightly vomit inducing. Shaky-cam is increasingly prevalent to give that "doco" look, but a lot of people don't like it, and that's that.
    Founder of the Wint & Kidd Appreciation Society.

    @merseytart
  • i expect u2 diei expect u2 die LondonPosts: 583MI6 Agent
    I loved the Bourne Ultimatum, I thought it was Brilliant.

    But then I come here, see the notice "6812 Registered Members", and remember why I'll always love Bond more.
Sign In or Register to comment.