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Danny-Boy wrote:

"complexities" my arse!, the scene is done with no taste whatsoever!

I hate to think what Craig's Bond would do with Kerim Bey's body (I'm sure he'd be looking for the nearest wheely-bin! ajb007/tongue )

I thought that was one of the best scenes in the film, but to each his own.

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Napoleon Plural wrote:

So... Solace are a sinister organisation, right?

Wrong.  Quantum are a sinister organisation. ajb007/wink

And Bond isn't such a 'novice' as all that.  He may be a newly recruited Double-O, but he's special forces.  The real question is, why shouldn't he be able to fly a plane?

I didn't find the dumping of Mathis that bad at all.  Mathis is dead; he was a professional, he would understand.  After all, just because someone is dead doesn't mean they can't still be useful...

I thought it was simply that Bond understands that a dead body is just a shell.  The person is gone.  That and dumping the body buys them a small amount of time perhaps.  More time than leaving the body out in the open.  And Mathis doesn't need his cash anymore.

It's all about being practical.  Being sentimental is all well and good, but there's a time and a place.  Bond can't afford sentimentality.

Last edited by Ravenstone (3rd Nov 2008 20:33)

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Been to see QOS today - brain still a bit numb from almost 2 hours of non-stop action. Haven't been here for a long time but thought I'd put an opinion in.

Perhaps had the benefit of watching the movie in a quiet matinee so some of the more subtle references may have been more obvious.

Good film, not totally brilliant but not as bad either that some make out.

Yes, there are some plot flaws and questions but it certainly doesn't have holes that can't be explained by some thought or that are left open deliberately for the future and feels like it is panning out to be the middle film in a trilogy. The crampt filling in a sandwich. Mainly because of the number of loose ends (not holes) left open in the movie e.g. Mr White, other members of Quantum, PM's advisor etc. mean that a further sequel is absolutely necessary.

Particularly liked a couple of subtle references to TSWLM - i.e. the name R Sterling on the Universal Exports business card Bond uses at the harbour, and the overdressed couple Bond/Camille walking through the desert ala Bond/Anya from TSWLM. Don't know if anyone else noticed ?

The scene with Mathis' death was not as bad I think as has been portrayed by some others here, it was a final chance for Bond to "bond" with Mathis and the "theft" of the money from Mathis wallet was probably to make it look like a robbery gone wrong and thus Bond was using Mathis' body as a misdirection to locals in a similar way to Mathis doing with the terrorists in CR.

With regards to how Bond knew where to look in Haiti for the villain he kills in the hotel (yes it was filmed in Panama but clearly meant to be Haiti in the film) it's all in the briefing in the MI6 office. Why didn't Camille recognise him coz she'd only spoken to the villain on the phone - confirmed in the conversation between Camille and Greene.

Thought how Bond caught images of the Quantum members at the Tosca opera sequence in Austria was very imaginative and some of the villains exposed in the that sequence (identities confirmed by Tanner back in MI6) show some potential promise as villains/henchmen in the next movie.

Didn't really like the title sequence, felt that Danny Kleinman's work was much better and showed much more inventiveness.

With regards to the gunbarrel, hopefully at the start of the next film it is there at the start - only logical explanation I can put to it's placement is that at the start of the film (and during it) Bond is still damaged goods, not really fully working for MI6 and doing some of his own thing but by the end he is back fully in the fold (confirmed by the conversation with M near the end) and that he is now more of the secret agent that we more associate with. Or maybe they were just playing with us.

On that note, Craig's Bond shows increasing signs of becoming that more considered agent and also with some more of the trademark quips gradually as the film progresses. He doesn't get everything right first time and gradually appreciates the consequences of his actions. Hopefully this is something that the filmmakers hoped to achieve.

Greene's villain isn't for me evil enough and I feel that this is mainly due to miscasting rather than the character himself. For me, Mathieu Amalric just does look like a master villain - more like an accountant.

The reason Bond isn't seen getting the Girl at the end is because of the unfinished business in Russia with Vesper's boyfriend - to me that is a more satisfying ending at this point in the "Quantum" saga rather than "getting the girl" - perhaps at the end of the next movie and possibly the end of the trilogy it would be more appropriate.

Thought Olga's voice was very LeeLoo from Fifth Element though.

I personally think it's a film, because of some plot complexities and because it is mostly non-stop action, that does deserve and probably NEED repeat viewing to get full understanding and appreciation.

Overall I'd rate QOS 7.5 out of 10 on a first viewing.

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Christmas Tounes wrote:

Amen. Who wants to watch rape, images of extreme torture, nearly burning to death, repeated & repeated fighting, stabbing and killing, and constant evil ideas, phrases and wording.

Me if it's done as well as in QoS.  It was only an attempted rape, so I think perhaps your mind was playing tricks with you if you think it went any further.  I missed the extreme torture, was it any good?  As for nearly getting burnt to death, how about Sir Roger and Lois in MR when the shuttle launches?  Bond is always nearly getting shot, stabbed, blown up, or drowned.  It would be boring if he didn't.  And he kills people.  Brosnan ran around in TND with a machine gun like he was Steven Seagal.  Dear old Roger Moore kicked a car off a cliff in FYEO.  Evil ideas in Bond films traditionally involve trying to take over the world, but Greene only wanted Bolivia so in relative terms that's arguably less evil than normal.

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Christmas Tounes wrote:

One poor lady on my local radio said she had been looking forward to what was advertised as a fun entertaining film. She came away upset; she goes to the cinema to be entertained.

Amen. Who wants to watch rape, images of extreme torture, nearly burning to death, repeated & repeated fighting, stabbing and killing, and constant evil ideas, phrases and wording.

I know what you're saying here but fun and entertaining probably has Adam Sandler in it. Bond let us not forget is 'licensed to kill' - that's the premise I go to see a Bond film for - he's a secret agent there to bring down the bad guys, notoriously by any means possible.

The notion that Bond films wouldn't have at least moderate violence in the fall of the villain just doesn't follow - these are meant to be threatening and dangerous characters who are set on world domination and criminal activity and aren't going to be stopped by either negotiation or slapped wrists.

On the subject of the film itself I think QoS will continue to polarize people on the net forums and in the cinemas across the country. I don't think it's overly Bourne, I think maybe it's a bit gritty and lacking in class and finesse for some, perhaps emotionally overwrought and lacking in gadgetry for others and then there'll be folks like me who just 'get it' (not that I'm insinuating others don't btw) both as a good film and/or a good Bond film but I think its a great sequel to CR and setup for the next one.

I didn't think the vengeful killing or flaws in Bond were misplaced, I thought some of the humour was there and there was a lot of quick thinking, resourcefulness and growth of character for Bond too. By the end of the film his wiring has stopped short circuiting, he seems more calm and collected, reigning in his attitude and his bullets, showing that although he loved Vesper he can move on and carry on chasing Mr White and the rest of Quantum.

My name is lavabubble and I like QoS ajb007/embarrassed

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Christmas Tounes wrote:

Amen. Who wants to watch rape, images of extreme torture, nearly burning to death, repeated & repeated fighting, stabbing and killing, and constant evil ideas, phrases and wording.

I must concur, I remember my parents forcing me to sit through a film that contained scenes of; attempted child murder, animal exploitation, scenes of forced labour in dangerous conditions, the belief in the occult and poisoning.

Seems quite horrific really when you consider Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs is still classed as a family favourite.

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avekev wrote:

I must concur, I remember my parents forcing me to sit through a film that contained scenes of; attempted child murder, animal exploitation, scenes of forced labour in dangerous conditions, the belief in the occult and poisoning.

Seems quite horrific really when you consider Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs is still classed as a family favourite.

A hit!  A very palpable hit Avekev.  By the way, that was also the first film I saw at the cinema.     I toyed with the idea of going to the theatre when I was down in London, (I know, what was I thinking? ajb007/biggrin )  but all these old plays are full of violence and murders.  It's horrible!  What kind of social deviants want to watch this.  We should put them on a list.  Or name and shame them.  Filthy perverts.

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The phrase we're all searching for here is "sex, sadism and snobbery".

They've been with Bond since the start.

Can I ask that the personal attacks be excised completely, however?  Let's keep it civil.

Founder of the Wint & Kidd Appreciation Society.

@merseytart

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jetsetwilly wrote:

The phrase we're all searching for here is "sex, sadism and snobbery".

They've been with Bond since the start.

Can I ask that the personal attacks be excised completely, however?  Let's keep it civil.

Sorry JSW, I don't normally lash out like that.  I'm always happy to hear other people's opinions on Bond, but that little lecture on sex and violence rattled my cage.  Back on topic now.  Anybody seen QoS yet?

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I don't often post on here but have been moved to write after some reflection on the film and subsequent reviews here.

Quantum of Solace was always on a hiding to nothing following on from Casino Royale and the almost universal acceptance of it's success. Daniel Craig proved he was more than up to the job silencing nearly all the critics; successfully bringing Bond as a character in line with the books and our modern world.
No small feat.

One comment frequently made about the new Bond was that it owed some small debt to the Bourne films. Maybe, maybe not but it is here I believe that the producers started believing the press and fans alike and made a series of poor decisions.

Firstly the director. Forster is a sensitive and subtle director not known for his action films. At 90 minutes the film is never allowed to breathe, there's none of that intimacy between the characters that typified Casino. Which is odd, given that is what the director is known for. Did the producers regret their decision and start back tracking?

Any film that has three writers and numerous re-writes tends to lead to trouble. Hence the flimsy plot, it makes some sense in that it offers closure for Bond and sets up the new Quantum group as the MI6 nemesis for future films.
But did we need an action sequence every 5 minutes for the first half of the film? If you doubt it then have a watch handy next time you see it.

Funnily is after 45 minutes that I think the editors of QoS rememberd that they were making a Bond film and not a Bourne one.

Those first 45 minutes are a pastiche on the Bourne films, not in terms of character, but in style. Rapid editing, camera moves that never settle which make the viewer incapable of fixing on any point during the sequences.

Yest after all this I did like it. It has a lot of qualities that have already been discussed here. However my main reason for liking it is Daniel Craig.

He has brought a presence and magnetism to the role that is truly great. For me he is definitely up there with Connery.

One just hope that they give him the script he and Bond deserve for B23.

Oh yes and that theme song. Broccoli should hang her head.

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Napoleon Plural wrote:

[i]Guten Abend Loeffelholz! Jetzt ist es Zeit das Zimmer zu verlassen!
(Uebrigens stehen deine Hosensclhlitze unten!)  ajb007/lol

Deine Augen muessen sehr gut sein wenn Du es von London sehen kanns, Herr Plural. ajb007/smile

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I enjoyed Quantum of Solace, but I didn't enjoy it as much as I enjoyed Casino Royale.  I'm just going to pick out one or two points here, as I don't have time for a comprehensive review right now.  Firstly, I like the title song and the titles.  However, I felt the Bond theme itself was underused. I like the enlarged role given to Dame Judi Dench.  We see a lot of 'M' in this film; Dame Judi is such a talented actress that it was good to see more of her.  Moreover, I think Camille is the most beautiful Bond girl in quite a while. As for Gemma Arterton, well, I didn't much care for her character.  She seemed to be nothing more than the token lay, if you'll excuse my French.

I accept that the franchise had to change to survive, but I don't understand why some of the traditional elements have been dropped.  For me, the experience of a Bond film started when I hear the iconic music and see the white circles move across the screen.  Then we have the teaser and the titles.  No more it seems.  I don't know why they have relegated the gunbarrel to the end. 

Daniel Craig does a good job as Bond, but I'm not sure that I want this extremely dark and broody portrayal of 007 to continue indefinitely.  I would like to see a little more humour and a little more tradition; perhaps we could see the return of Moneypenny as well?

In summary, I did enjoy this outing, but I enjoyed it as I would enjoy The Bourne Identity.  It needed more of the hallmarks that make Bond films what they are.

Last edited by Hugo Drax (3rd Nov 2008 23:07)

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Ravenstone wrote:
Napoleon Plural wrote:

So... Solace are a sinister organisation, right?

Wrong.  Quantum are a sinister organisation. ajb007/wink

No: Quantum is a sinister organization. ajb007/wink


(Just a little joke- I'm not a grammar-correcting bore: honest! ajb007/smile )

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Hugo Drax wrote:

I accept that the franchise had to change to survive, but I don't understand why some of the traditional elements have been dropped.  For me, the experience of a Bond film started when I hear the iconic music and see the white circles move across the screen.  Then we have the teaser and the titles.  No more it seems.  I don't know why they have relegated the gunbarrel to the end.

I didn't mind about it when I heard it, but after seeing it I agree- there's not enough reason to have it there other than some sort of last minute worrying that the end is too downbeat or something and we have to come out walking high and listening to the theme. CR did the same but very cleverly- here it feels stuck-on.
He was James Bond 007 at the end of CR- we didn't need another ending saying 'and now he's James Bond'. The gunbarrel was needed more at the beginning as it all started far too quickly- being introduced to Bond again through that may have helped.

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First post, driven to passing comment on this glorious film in an aging franchise.

Surprised at some of the negative comments this movies been getting.

Im 37, a Roger Bond fan - in that i saw View 7x at the cinema - a glutton for punishment i know - but back then waiting those every two years for the next Bond movie..saliva dribbling out of me as every week past. This feeling thankfully disperced once Daylights came into being and another poor directoral effort by Glen! riding on the coat-tails taking the money and running...who'd of thought the same guy responsible for the wonderful Eyes! Well ok, no film is one mans I know...however i digress.

My better half loved Casino and Daniel, i liked Casino and loved Daniel's Connery,gritty approach..nice to have a change, Brosman was good..no great in the role, let day by the writers etc..he was a good cross between Connery and Moore..the films needed him. Now though we need a Connery, and boy have we got one! Im certain a few more years, we'll long for - and get - another Moonraker, Thunder, Diamonds, Octo and that really is no bad thing - all the pieces fit in the end.

So, Solace, girlfriend didnt need dragging, but boy was she bored by this one. Reason, simple, summed up in the opening title sequance, remembering Casino or not...the chase was fast n furious, uninvolving, who, what, why, where, who cares...oh! look - establishing shot -car goes over cliff..whew..and breath...moving on...and that was the way the film went..even to the point - early on i add when....What another fist fight...another kiling..wheres this taking us.

Im the past - and freefall sequance aside, Bond always got out - virtually blood free -from the most outrageous situations - now Bond is more down to earth but the outrageous situations - in this movie - is the timings...how, where, what, why...where'd she come from...perfect timing..etc etc

So girlfriend was bored. I on the other hand, LOVED this movie, the style , direction, pace, even the plot...i loved the plot...the fact that you didnt know what was going on till the scene ended...But all the nods and winks to past Bond films..even the poor opening sequance..well..harks back to Connery days..before we had the 20min opening titles...it was gritty, real.

Repeated viewings and in time i feel that this one will be a classic. Ok, so, yes, does it take Daniel two! movies to make him Bond..he did say his name at end of last one after all..but then..why not...the next will, im certain, be Daniels Goldfinger, his Spy..they will get the balance right and fingers crossed, Bond will confront this centuries verion of Spectre. Remember the thread that kindof linked Connerys bonds together before confronting Him in Twice?..well I think come the 3rd, all will be forgiven for this one..and it will make it all the more stronger for it.

In fact, the only poor thing i felt were those opening titles...computer generated rubbish, that aside - fantastic movie -faults aplenty as mentioned but loved it for all those faults.

Better than the quite mundane and frankly 'straight' Casino.

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Napoleon Plural wrote:

[i]Guten Abend Loeffelholz! Jetzt ist es Zeit das Zimmer zu verlassen!
(Uebrigens stehen deine Hosensclhlitze unten!)  ajb007/lol

Glucklich?  ajb007/rolleyes  Selbstverstandlich.

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

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I have been putting my media quals to good use and writing a review (spoilers and all!) which will NOT be posted here. - To protect those who have not seen it yet.

If you want to read it, please feel free to send me an email, my address is on my profile. I will then reply with the review and a Hello!

Tip: Watch the film a second time! It makes much more sense!

I just need to hear back from one person I promised the first read to, then I will start sending it to those who request it!

Last edited by Thunderbird 2 (3rd Nov 2008 23:58)

This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?

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Barbel wrote:

Deine Augen muessen sehr gut sein wenn Du es von London sehen kanns, Herr Plural. ajb007/smile

Ja... BIN ICH eindrucksvoll.

ajb007/cool

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

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Loeffelholz wrote:
Barbel wrote:

Deine Augen muessen sehr gut sein wenn Du es von London sehen kanns, Herr Plural. ajb007/smile

Ja... BIN ICH eindrucksvoll.

ajb007/cool

ajb007/lol ajb007/lol Ich bin sicher dass ist wahr!

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ajb007/wink

And I DID leave the room...after I read the predictable claptrap about how Bond shouldn't be able to fly a plane  ajb007/rolleyes  What tired, typical bovine scatology [yawn]  Someone please make sure to let me know if I missed something important ajb007/rolleyes

Last edited by Loeffelholz (4th Nov 2008 03:00)

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

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What is with the German guys? If he can actually understand it, it's not very effective. ajb007/insane

Sorry, I am so on edge right now.  Between the election tomorrow and all the reviews I have been reading, I'm a wreck! I don't know about anyone else here in the states, but this waiting 2 weeks after the UK has seen it, has been really excruciating...to say the least!

I'm so mad at myself, I have read spoiler after spoiler and it's my own fault, but it is just so hard to have all this info here, and not peek at it. It's been a really lousy test of my willpower, which I am failing miserably at.  We didn't have this problem with CR, I think both premieres were almost the same day last time. But as a sidebar note to Eon..should they care, please don't do this to the US again...release them the same week next time.. please!

And jetset, love the new avatar. ajb007/lol ajb007/lol

Last edited by Monique (4th Nov 2008 01:31)

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Monique wrote:

What is the with the German guys? If he can actually understand it, it's not very effective. ajb007/insane

I think everybody understands each other.  I just don't understand why I was called out  ajb007/rolleyes  But then the fellow does think himself quite the item...obviously.

I'm shot to hell with spoilers, too...but I'm also glad to see that many people, whose opinions I respect, tend to part with the New Conventional WisdomTM...  ajb007/bond 

This two-week advantage, as I'd figured, is being pressed in some quarters.  C'est la guerre  ajb007/frown|)

Last edited by Loeffelholz (4th Nov 2008 03:30)

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

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Loeffelholz wrote:
Monique wrote:

What is the with the German guys? If he can actually understand it, it's not very effective. ajb007/insane

I think everybody understands each other.  I just don't understand why I was called out  ajb007/rolleyes  But then the fellow does think himself quite the item...obviously.
ajb007/frown|)

ajb007/confused I don't understand this. In German, Napoleon told Loeff his fly was open. I said that his eyes must be good to see that from London. Just larking around, and I now think I've put my size 12s into something...

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Just a joke guys, obviously not taken in the spirit it was intended. Shame I can't translate what you guys said back to me! Or probably just as well!  ajb007/biggrin

"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

Roger Moore 1927-2017

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Monique wrote:

I don't know about anyone else here in the states, but this waiting 2 weeks after the UK has seen it, has been really excruciating...to say the least!

It's a bit of a pain here too (although much less) in that there's loads of anti-piracy gubbins- QoS 'not filming' posters, a trail before the film with Danny imploring us not to pirate the film etc.

I think it was more of a move towards a traditional Bond film, so if CR was too different for you you might enjoy QoS more.