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Re: Tarrintino's spin on directing a 007 movie

Rick Roberts wrote:
Dan Same wrote:

but even my least favourite QT films bear IMO the mark of an auteur.

Or someone who trys and fails to be one.

You're entitled to that view, however I disagree. I think he's completely successful.

"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman

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Re: Tarrintino's spin on directing a 007 movie

Dan Same wrote:

How could I have proved your point since I consider it to be great dialogue? I love it and I don't think it's stupid. You think a 13 year old could  have written it, well I disagree.

No I am sorry, an 11 year old who had help from a 13 year old. ajb007/lol

I have also seen the films, and I don't think he rips them off. He rearranges them and ads his own touch.

His touch is nothing but exaggerating the violence and sex.

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Re: Tarrintino's spin on directing a 007 movie

Rick Roberts wrote:

I have also seen the films, and I don't think he rips them off. He rearranges them and ads his own touch.

His touch is nothing but exaggerating the violence and sex.

Three things. One, what sex are you referring to? I don't think there has been a single sex scene in any of his films, certainly that I can remember (there may have been one in Jackie Brown.) Two, what's wrong with exaggeration? Three, his touch involves the interraction of IMO creative dialogue with graphic violence which is altered depending on the context (the violence in the car scene in PF was different to the attempted rape scene in Kill Bill Vol. 1 etc...)

"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman

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Re: Tarrintino's spin on directing a 007 movie

Dan Same wrote:

Three things. One, what sex are you referring to? I don't think there has been a single sex scene in any of his films, certainly that I can remember (there may have been one in Jackie Brown.)

Sex or lewd references to it.

Two, what's wrong with exaggeration? Three, his touch involves the interraction of IMO creative dialogue with graphic violence which is altered depending on the context (the violence in the car scene in PF was different to the attempted rape scene in Kill Bill Vol. 1 etc...)

There is nothing wrong with it when you know how to do it.

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Re: Tarrintino's spin on directing a 007 movie

Rick Roberts wrote:

Two, what's wrong with exaggeration? Three, his touch involves the interraction of IMO creative dialogue with graphic violence which is altered depending on the context (the violence in the car scene in PF was different to the attempted rape scene in Kill Bill Vol. 1 etc...)

There is nothing wrong with it when you know how to do it.

Well, I think he does know how to do it. Look, we're going around in circles. So why I just summarise our points of view since we seem to be going over the same territory. I regard QT as a great auteur and one of the greatest writer-directors of all time, but who still shouldn't be hired to direct Bond. You regard him as a talentless hack who shouldn't be allowed near Bond. Am I right? ajb007/shifty

"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman

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Re: Tarrintino's spin on directing a 007 movie

Dan Same wrote:

You regard him as a talentless hack who shouldn't be allowed near Bond. Am I right? ajb007/shifty

He shouldn't be allowed near film period. ajb007/lol

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Re: Tarrintino's spin on directing a 007 movie

Rick Roberts wrote:
zebond wrote:

This thread reminds me much of my thoughts on Peter Jackson's LOTR trilogy. I used to dislike Peter Jackson (and still do to a degree) but the more I thought about it, the happier I was that he was chosen to direct the trilogy (I have a point I promise) I was happy because he would not try to leave his 'directorial style stamp' on the trilogy, but instead make a definitive cinematic capturing.

Jackson let you know it was a Jackson film. The long, bloated, exposition with sweeping camera angles and waves of CGI imagery is Jackson all over.

So let me get this straight, you're calling Peter Jackson, the creator of such films as Bad Taste, The Frighteners, The Lord of the Rings Trilogy, and Crossing the Line, an auteur, but not Tarantino whose films are soaked in thematic Tarantino elements every time through? The long sweeping camera angles reminded me much more of literary Lord of the Rings than previous Peter Jackson pieces.

You say Tarantino is not original, that all of his movies are rip-offs of seventies exploitation flicks, but this isn't quite the case. It's a matter of originality through cliche. Yes, Tarantino was inspired by many exploitation films from the seventies and happened to utilize the elements that have inspired all of his films to date. It would be unlikely that one would compare the abstract expressionist, Jackson Pollack to Quentin Tarantino. However, the two share an commonality different than many others. There are those that look at a Jackson Pollack painting and state that he or she could easily replicate his masterpiece. But that's just the case, Pollack was the first and remains the best at it, just as Tarantino in films.

Rick Roberts wrote:
zebond wrote:

That being said I love auteurs, my favorite directors are auteurs, Tarantino at the top of them, but when it comes to the Bond movies I feel a director who won't feel the overwhelming need to leave his stamp is more appropriate than a director who wants to make a movie in his vein. To me Tarantino making a Bond movie is as much a thought as Burton making a Bond movie - both directors I love, but neither would I chose to make a Bond film. If they would I would without question love the movie as a Tarantino movie, or a Tim Burton movie, but I love watching Bond movies that feel like Bond movies.

Hitchcock was an auteur, Clampett was an auteur, Lumet is an auteur, Scorsese is an auteur, Tarantino is just noise. I don't think Tarantino should be in that camp just because he just adds alot of booms and bangs and dose just more compitently compared to weaker directors of today. Sure if you dig if you can find some substance in Tarantino's work but it's too much to be done. Auteur, and I mean in it's strongest possible terms, is a word that belongs to a few a elite in Hollywood in it's entire history. Tarantino does not deserve that discription.

Auteur is not a word to describe the elite, and the founders of this coining would be most disgraced to hear anyone put it like that. Tarantino embodies Autuer. Autuers are not mainstream sell outs, Auteurs do not always make films that everybody is guaranteed to love, hell, Auteurs don't always make films their fans are guaranteed to love - they do one thing and one thing only, make the films that they want to make, without Producer influence, or the current tastes of society. You call him trendy and cool - last I checked the kids in school who did nothing but talk about movies were not considered the cool ones, nor were the fans to date - they were the nerds, the rejects, the one nobody could hold a conversation with. There's nothing cool or trendy about that.

Moreover I agree entirely with Dan Same. This is a post about whether or not Tarantino should direct a Bond film, which we've been in unison about. There was no need to move into the realm of arguing Tarantino's worth as a filmmaker of his genre, unless of course you wanted to start your very own Tarantino bashing post in our off-topic chat. In which I'd feel you're more than welcome to do.

"Guns make me nervous!"

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Re: Tarrintino's spin on directing a 007 movie

QT has a knack for genre, and can adjust for the specific genre he's working in quite well.  I think he'd bring a welcome flair to Bond.  Not a fan of every film he's made but dude can direct and would create a decent enough Bond film IMO (certainly no worse than the Glen disasters, Campbell's mismashes, Apted's mess, and Tamahori's WTF??).  2 cents.

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Re: Tarrintino's spin on directing a 007 movie

zebond wrote:

So let me get this straight, you're calling Peter Jackson, the creator of such films as Bad Taste, The Frighteners, The Lord of the Rings Trilogy, and Crossing the Line, an auteur, but not Tarantino whose films are soaked in thematic Tarantino elements every time through?

I don't think Jackson is an auteur either, I just know what his films are stapled with. I can even say John Glen's distinction is shooting locations with a bland sense of workman like direction but that dosen't mean I think he's an auteur.

You say Tarantino is not original, that all of his movies are rip-offs of seventies exploitation flicks, but this isn't quite the case. It's a matter of originality through cliche. Yes, Tarantino was inspired by many exploitation films from the seventies and happened to utilize the elements that have inspired all of his films to date. It would be unlikely that one would compare the abstract expressionist, Jackson Pollack to Quentin Tarantino. However, the two share an commonality different than many others. There are those that look at a Jackson Pollack painting and state that he or she could easily replicate his masterpiece. But that's just the case, Pollack was the first and remains the best at it, just as Tarantino in films.

POLLOCK you mean. And Jackson POLLOCK shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath of a hack.  With Pollock's work you can find a sense of construction with a careful eye. "Ultilizing elements", "Orginality through cliche", you can use what terms you like but it still adds up to making cheap knock offs.  I am really tired of people making words for bad art or just plain laziness. I have heard it all for animation and live action/

Auteur is not a word to describe the elite, and the founders of this coining would be most disgraced to hear anyone put it like that.

I am saying that because most directors let the script control them and not the storyboards or their own vision. Very have few are really distinctive.

Tarantino embodies Autuer.Autuers are not mainstream sell outs, Auteurs do not always make films that everybody is guaranteed to love, hell, Auteurs don't always make films their fans are guaranteed to love - they do one thing and one thing only, make the films that they want to make, without Producer influence, or the current tastes of society.

Let me re-direct for a minute on "selling out". Their is nothing wrong with doinf it and have to in oder to stay afloat. You make something for yourself but you also have to concern with getting the largest audience you possibly can get. 

You call him trendy and cool - last I checked the kids in school who did nothing but talk about movies were not considered the cool ones, nor were the fans to date - they were the nerds, the rejects, the one nobody could hold a conversation with. There's nothing cool or trendy about that.

Everyone talks about movies. It's the "nerds" and "rejects" who usually go beyound what is playing in the theatre currently. Tarantino is a hipster.

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Re: Tarrintino's spin on directing a 007 movie

A few comments: I think that Peter Jackson will probably end up being regarded as an auteur. I don't think he's there yet as I don't think he has yet established a distinct thematic/stylistic thread which runs through his work, unlike Tarantino. Speaking of which, 'long, bloated, exposition with sweeping camera angles and waves of CGI imagery' isn't distinctive to Jackson's work; only the LOTR films and King Kong may be described in that way.

Rick, you may be tired of people making words for 'bad art', but Zebond and I don't think it's bad art or laziness, and your contention that it's 'bad art' or 'cheap knock offs' is merely your opinion. I agree with Zebond that Tarantino can absolutely be compared to Pollock, both in terms of talent, and the way that their work appears easy, unoriginal when it is arguably anything but. But seriously, if you're going to constantly bash Tarantino (whom many other members admire), don't complain about being tired when others defend him.

"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman

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Re: Tarrintino's spin on directing a 007 movie

Dan Same wrote:

Rick, you may be tired of people making words for 'bad art', but Zebond and I don't think it's bad art or laziness, and your contention that it's 'bad art' or 'cheap knock offs' is merely your opinion.

And you saying it's great is merely your opinion so it's a moot point. ajb007/rolleyes

Dan Same wrote:

But seriously, if you're going to constantly bash Tarantino (whom many other members admire), don't complain about being tired when others defend him.

I am not refering to this thread alone when I said I am tired of execuses for bad art. Also I don't care how many people admire him here or anywhere else. He's a total hack and you do great insult to a superior artist like Pollock to say he has anything common with a slop artist.

Last edited by Rick Roberts (19th Aug 2009 17:11)

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Re: Tarrintino's spin on directing a 007 movie

Dan Same wrote:

. Speaking of which, 'long, bloated, exposition with sweeping camera angles and waves of CGI imagery' isn't distinctive to Jackson's work; only the LOTR films and King Kong may be described in that way.

Then just long bloated exposition.

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Re: Tarrintino's spin on directing a 007 movie

Rick Roberts wrote:
Dan Same wrote:

Rick, you may be tired of people making words for 'bad art', but Zebond and I don't think it's bad art or laziness, and your contention that it's 'bad art' or 'cheap knock offs' is merely your opinion.

And you saying it's great is merely your opinion so it's a moot point. ajb007/rolleyes.

Yes, but you don't always seem to realise that your opinions are just that, and saying that you're tired of people defending art  is absurd.

Rick Roberts wrote:
Dan Same wrote:

But seriously, if you're going to constantly bash Tarantino (whom many other members admire), don't complain about being tired when others defend him.

I am not refering to this thread alone when I said I am tired of execuses for bad art. Also I don't care how many people admire him here or anywhere else. He's a total hack and you do great insult to a superior artist like Pollock to say he has anything common with a slop artist.

IN YOUR OPINION! I don't think he is a total hack, and I think he can absolutely be compared to Pollock! I think that Pollock should feel complimented to be compared to Tarantino. You may not care how many people admire him, but make no mistake that your view that Tarantino is a hack is an opinion, not fact.

Last edited by Dan Same (19th Aug 2009 17:21)

"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman

39

Re: Tarrintino's spin on directing a 007 movie

Rick Roberts wrote:
Dan Same wrote:

. Speaking of which, 'long, bloated, exposition with sweeping camera angles and waves of CGI imagery' isn't distinctive to Jackson's work; only the LOTR films and King Kong may be described in that way.

Then just long bloated exposition.

Not that either. Bad Taste, The Frighteners, even Heavenly Creatures don't IMO have bloated exposition. In fact, I don't think King Kong did either. Was it bloated? Absolutely, but not IMO because of exposition.

"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman

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Re: Tarrintino's spin on directing a 007 movie

Dan Same wrote:

Yes, but you don't always seem to realise that your opinions are just that, and saying that you're tired of, what, people defending art is absurd.

Maybe because I have studied art extensively and those opinions are absurd. It's like walking into a room saying a room is painted white when it is painted yellow. An un-educated opinion can be wrong.

Why don't you for once actually come up with a counter argument instead of saying "that is just your opinion" or "I don't agree".

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Re: Tarrintino's spin on directing a 007 movie

Rick Roberts wrote:
Dan Same wrote:

Yes, but you don't always seem to realise that your opinions are just that, and saying that you're tired of, what, people defending art is absurd.

Maybe because I have studied art extensively and those opinions are absurd. It's like walking into a room saying a room is painted white when it is painted yellow. An un-educated opinion can be wrong.

ajb007/lol I'm sorry, but this is just hilarious. Right. I'm sorry, should I take this seriously? Well, alright, I have studied cinema extensively, and I also know quite a bit about art, and if you think that your opinion on Tarantino is educated, then you must be living in an alternative reality. You think that I'm wrong and that my opinion is uneducated? Well, that's a compliment coming from you.

"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman

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Re: Tarrintino's spin on directing a 007 movie

Rick Roberts wrote:

Why don't you for once actually come up with a counter argument instead of saying "that is just your opinion" or "I don't agree".

I have all the time. Read my previous posts on Tarantino. The problem, however, is that I tend to get annoyed by arrogant people who mistakenly consider their opinions to be facts. I'm funny that way.

Oh, and saying 'I don't agree' is polite. It's common curtesy.

Last edited by Dan Same (19th Aug 2009 17:26)

"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman

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Re: Tarrintino's spin on directing a 007 movie

Dan Same wrote:
Rick Roberts wrote:
Dan Same wrote:

Yes, but you don't always seem to realise that your opinions are just that, and saying that you're tired of, what, people defending art is absurd.

Maybe because I have studied art extensively and those opinions are absurd. It's like walking into a room saying a room is painted white when it is painted yellow. An un-educated opinion can be wrong.

ajb007/lol I'm sorry, but this is just hilarious. Right. I'm sorry, should I take this seriously? Well, alright, I have studied cinema extensively, and I also know quite a bit about art, and if you think that your opinion on Tarantino is educated, then you must be living in an alternative reality. You think that I'm wrong and that my opinion is uneducated? Well, that's a compliment coming from you.

All you have said about Tarantino is just what any dime a dozen movie critic has said and even worse you cited that horrible dialogue. No your opinion is rather obtuse.

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Re: Tarrintino's spin on directing a 007 movie

Rick Roberts wrote:

All you have said about Tarantino is just what any dime a dozen movie critic has said

Really, and what dime a dozen movie critics are those? Do you realise that many, perhaps most, of the world's leading film critics love Tarantino, or at least like him? Comparing me to professional film critics doesn't exactly prove your point.

Rick Roberts wrote:

and even worse you cited that horrible dialogue.

Except I don't think it's horrible! ajb007/insane It may shock you, but I quoted that dialogue as I think it is wonderful; creative, funny and poetic.

Rick Roberts wrote:

No your opinion is rather obtuse.

So, now you're insulting me. ajb007/rolleyes You know, coming from you, this is a compliment. I've noticed that in so many of your discussions on this board, you resort to insults. I wonder why. ajb007/rolleyes

"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman

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Re: Tarrintino's spin on directing a 007 movie

Dan Same wrote:

Really, and what dime a dozen movie critics are those? Do you realise that many, perhaps most, of the world's leading film critics love Tarantino, or at least like him? Comparing me to professional film critics doesn't exactly prove your point.

My point was the movie critics don't have much credibility at all.

Except I don't think it's horrible! ajb007/insane It may shock you, but I quoted that dialogue as I think it is wonderful; creative, funny and poetic.

No this is funny and/or creative dialogue:

Mildred Atkinson: Oh I think it'll make a dreamy picture, Mr. Steele. What I call an epic.
Dixon Steele: And what do you call an epic?
Mildred Atkinson: Well, you know - a picture that's REAL long and has lots of things going on.

Dixon Steele: Oh, I love a picnic. Acres and acres of sand and all of it in your food.
Laurel Gray: Stop griping. Just lie still and inhale.
Dixon Steele: What, sand?
Laurel Gray: No, air - and don't let it go to your head.

Capt. Lochner: [Dixon has replied with sarcasm to Lochner's questions] You're told that the girl you were with last night was found in Benedict Canyon, murdered. Dumped from a moving car. What's your reaction? Shock? Horror? Sympathy? No - just petulance at being questioned. A couple of feeble jokes. You puzzle me, Mr. Steele.
Dixon Steele: Well, I grant you, the jokes could've been better, but I don't see why the rest should worry you - that is, unless you plan to arrest me on lack of emotion.

All from "In a Lonely Place" with Humphrey Bogart. Now compare it to the crap you posted, see the diference ?

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Re: Tarrintino's spin on directing a 007 movie

Dan Same wrote:

So, now you're insulting me. ajb007/rolleyes You know, coming from you, this is a compliment. I've noticed that in so many of your discussions on this board, you resort to insults. I wonder why. ajb007/rolleyes

No, I just don't think in this subject you have any idea what you are talking about.

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Re: Tarrintino's spin on directing a 007 movie

Rick Roberts wrote:

My point was the movie critics don't have much credibility at all.

They all can't be as intelligent as you. ajb007/rolleyes

This may shock you, but not only do I not hold your opinion in particularly high esteem, but there are quite a few critics who have alot of credibility. Roger Ebert (for all his faults) is still one of the world's biggest authority on film.

Rick Roberts wrote:

No this is funny and/or creative dialogue:

According to you.

Rick Roberts wrote:

Mildred Atkinson:but I don't see why the rest should worry you - that is, unless you plan to arrest me on lack of emotion.

That is the only line which impresses me.

Rick Roberts wrote:

Now compare it to the crap you posted, see the diference?

Oh, absolutely. Thanks so much for setting me straight. ajb007/rolleyes Rick, I do NOT believe that the dialogue I quoted is crap, and except for the last line, I think it's much better than this dialogue.

"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman

48

Re: Tarrintino's spin on directing a 007 movie

Rick Roberts wrote:
Dan Same wrote:

So, now you're insulting me. ajb007/rolleyes You know, coming from you, this is a compliment. I've noticed that in so many of your discussions on this board, you resort to insults. I wonder why. ajb007/rolleyes

No, I just don't think in this subject you have any idea what you are talking about.

Funny, I feel the exact same way about you. Oh, BTW, isn't in interesting how of all the people who responded to this topic, most disagree with you? Does that mean that we all have no idea what we are talking about? ajb007/rolleyes You may know alot about art, I don't know, but if you think that you are an expert on film, you are sadly mistaken.

"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman

49

Re: Tarrintino's spin on directing a 007 movie

Dan Same wrote:

This may shock you, but not only do I not hold your opinion in particularly high esteem, but there are quite a few critics who have alot of credibility. Roger Ebert (for all his faults) is still one of the world's biggest authority on film.

Roger Ebert is a good film critic but I hardly call him an authority on film. I always value the artists opinions more.

That is the only line which impresses me.

That wasn't a line. What are you doing ? 

Anyway your taste is dull. You really have the unmitigated gall to say the dialogue from any Tarantino film is better then In A Lonely Place. Any those precious film critics you hold so highly would laugh in your face if they actually heard this from you.

Rick, I do NOT believe that the dialogue I quoted is crap, and except for the last line, I think it's much better than this dialogue.

Because you watch mind numbing garbage like Tarantino. Turn on TCM for at least one day and pick out a film to watch and refine your taste.

Last edited by Rick Roberts (19th Aug 2009 18:04)

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Re: Tarrintino's spin on directing a 007 movie

Dan Same wrote:

Oh, BTW, isn't in interesting how of all the people who responded to this topic, most disagree with you?

Most you replied here said nothing in defense of Tarantino. ajb007/rolleyes