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Re: Black James Bond

Clive Owen will be at least 50 when Craig hangs up the PPK .....

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Re: Black James Bond

If so then Henry Cavill will probably then be the next bond.

"I take a ridiculous pleasure in what I eat and drink."                                   

~ Casino Royale, Ian Fleming

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Re: Black James Bond

What utter tosh.

Next thing is, Bond will be played by an American!!!!

Of course you are

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Re: Black James Bond

Clive Owen or Hugh Jackman!

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Re: Black James Bond

Ced wrote:

Clive Owen or Hugh Jackman!

Well, those are two totally NEW suggestions! ajb007/biggrin

"We have all the time in the world..."

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Re: Black James Bond

Bumping this in an effort to make it the main thread to discuss the Nomi is 007 rumor.

From what I've seen and read, this whole argument about Lynch comes down to two main positions on either side:

1. Bond has to be a white male because that's how Fleming wrote him.
2. Bond has to be changed because the movies are falling behind the times.

For the first one: Yes, Fleming wrote Bond as a white male. He also wrote him as a cynical, often depressed alcoholic who smoked two packs of cigarettes a day and had no qualms about using stimulants. How often has that Bond been portrayed on screen? The films have always cherry picked the more “socially acceptable” characteristics of the Book Bond to generate the movie version. Saying “Movie Bond must equal Book Bond” and then only picking two or three superficial characteristics that "matter"' conveniently ignores the content of the novels and the reality of the franchise.

For the second: No, Bond does NOT need to be drastically reworked to fit with the times. Whether it was Cold War Russians or over the top villains, Bond was always the agent that was sent in when the situation demanded extreme measures. In other words, Bond is the solution when the system is failing because he operates outside it. If the only reason Bond is given a complete overhaul is to "get with the times", i.e. made a role model for the current system, then you remove his power.

Imo, that doesn't mean the character can't evolve in smaller increments. For example, he's stopped smoking and slapping women on the ass (and I'm sure there are some fans who miss that). But I think that evolution needs to continue to be focused on Bond's personal concepts of right and wrong. He's always had had his own code of conduct that drives his actions. And that code has been based on preserving, at all costs, what is "good and right" in the world and stopping what is "wrong" and "evil". If his code has evolved to include treating women with respect because it is the "right" thing to do, I have no problem with it. That type of change works with the values of our time but doesn't do anything to obstruct Bond's ability to operate outside the system.

To me, none of that has anything to do with the actor's skin color. I have a tougher time with changing the gender, but that probably has more to do with my lack of imagination. Just because I can't see it doesn't mean it couldn't work. However, imo, what will always fail and destroy the character of Bond is making him black or female only to "shake things up" or "make Bond relevant again". If the writers can't come up with new plots that keep a white male Bond interesting and relevant, they should be fired for lack of creativity.

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Re: Black James Bond

I don't plan to engage much more in this discussion, but I have to bring one thing up: where have our female members gone?
It would be interesting to get their input on this issue (and many other things), but for some reason they're not here. I wonder if it's because of this debate,the nature of this debate or some completely other reason.

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Re: Black James Bond

I generally agree that Bond could be played by a non-white man (Talk of changing Bond’s gender is absurd). But given the cultural moment in which we are now living, I fear that such a change would be quite cynical and done for the wrong reasons. If/when it happens, it needs to be because the person in question is right for the role - not to satisfy a bunch of people who have probably never watched a Bond film but love to spew “takes” on the internet.

As for the Nomi character as “007”, I don’t see the fuss. They’re going to either hard or soft reboot after Craig, so there won’t be any need to “explain” how Bond gets his number back, etc.  Im shocked that people on this site are having trouble understanding that? There is no code name. The bond of 1962-2002 ended with Pierce. Craig Bond exists in his own universe. The same will almost certainly be true of the next Bond. It’s pretty black and white, pun not intended.

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Re: Black James Bond

"The odds will betray you and They will replace you" #

If Bond has left the service his number will be given to another agent.
The fact that it happens to be a Black woman is of no concern to me.
I'm sure to get the 00 prefix, she is more than capable  ajb007/martini ....... I only
hope she likes Safari suits, Aston Martins and innuendos  ajb007/biggrin

“God has given you one face, and you make yourself another"

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Re: Black James Bond

She likes safari suits, we've seen photos of her sporting one  ajb007/bond

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Re: Black James Bond

I raise an eyebrow in celebration  ajb007/martini  ajb007/bond

“God has given you one face, and you make yourself another"

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Re: Black James Bond

Good idea splitting the spoiler thread off. But shouldn't this thread be renamed "Black 007" given what we know about Lynch's Nomi?

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Re: Black James Bond

Number24 wrote:

I don't plan to engage much more in this discussion, but I have to bring one thing up: where have our female members gone?
It would be interesting to get their input on this issue (and many other things), but for some reason they're not here. I wonder if it's because of this debate,the nature of this debate or some completely other reason.

You are quite right i had noticed that the few active female contributors have been silent. This is a shame, come back please and stop this being a total boys club.

Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.

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Re: Black James Bond

Thunderpussy wrote:

"The odds will betray you and They will replace you" #

If Bond has left the service his number will be given to another agent.
The fact that it happens to be a Black woman is of no concern to me.
I'm sure to get the 00 prefix, she is more than capable  ajb007/martini ....... I only
hope she likes Safari suits, Aston Martins and innuendos  ajb007/biggrin

Correct  ajb007/cheers  ajb007/biggrin

YNWA 96

The Unbearables

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Re: Black James Bond

The James Bond license/franchise will outlive everyone on this board into eternity and as a property it will find a way to legally perpetuate in one form or another.  As long as it can make money for someone through mass patronage...it lives!  Whether with EON or beyond, current and future fans will see every iteration of the character in conformity to the ever changing social landscape...which means Bonds of different ethnicities, gender identification and perhaps even species and sentient life forms.  AI Bond...can you imagine?  ajb007/lol

"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....

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Re: Black James Bond

I expect Bond will continue to be a white 30-something to 40-something year old guy of varying hair colour.

However... If the producers decide to replace him in the franchise with a different character who is non-white, female, trans, gay, bi, furry or identifies as a tractor exhaust pipe, that's another matter.

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Re: Black James Bond

The media has prepared the public for a non-white Bond. With all the talk of a black and female 007 (and people confusing that for a black and female Bond), a black male Bond no longer seems like a stretch. I think that how Nomi is played out in Bond 25 (and if she actually is 007) may depend on how the next Bond is cast. EON have shown that money comes first. They will be sure to cast the Bond they think will resonate best with worldwide audiences. Bond has never been about taking big risks. The choice for Daniel Craig was different, but it made sense at the time. What makes sense now to get the largest film-going audience interested in Bond?

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Re: Black James Bond

I really, really hate PC and woke culture.

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Re: Black James Bond

Will more people watch Bond movies if Bond is played by a  black actor? I don't know. I guess some people will watch because they feel the series has become PC, but I perhaps more people won't watch the movies because they feel it's become too PC. Both reasons are stupid in my opinion, but I suspect the group finding a black Bond too PC is the larger group.

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Re: Black James Bond

Has this thread been dug up on its one year anniversary just for someone to say they hate woke?  ajb007/lol

I think there's a chance the next one could be non-white. Wouldn't make any difference to me, anyone who refused to watch it based on that would be extremely unimpressive in my eyes. He's just got to be a good-looking, swaggery, great lead actor for my money.

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Re: Black James Bond

Not about JB films per se, but a pretty good analysis (IMO) about the dangers of trying to score political points with the expense of slaved storytelling and alienating basic fan base.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVNDMuQtipo&t=217s

"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech

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Re: Black James Bond

YouTube? That's not where I head for my dose of level-headed fair-minded analysis ajb007/smile

Besides, Bond isn't really something based around a fanbase: it's a film series everyone goes to see. The fanbase (small that it is) got 'alienated' by a guy having blond hair a few years ago, if I were Eon I'd go on selling us expensive stuff and ignoring any opinion we have on the movies ajb007/biggrin

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Re: Black James Bond

emtiem wrote:

YouTube? That's not where I head for my dose of level-headed fair-minded analysis ajb007/smile

WHAT!? How can you say that about someone, whose channel in "tube" is named "Critical Drinker"!? Have you no decency?

My point is: you take the character or plot far enough away from the source material, and it's just a movie. It could be a critically acclaimed block buster, but it's still just a movie. Yes you could score some points making the lead character an african-american crippled lesbian in a wheel chair (just imagine all the gadgets that that would make possible), but that would not be a James Bond -movie. Just look at Bourne Legacy, is it entertaining? -yes, does it have "Bourne" in the title? -yes, is it a "Jason Bourne" -movie? -No, it's an Aaron Cross movie, with a name of a Jason Bourne novel!

If that felt a little blunt and poorly argued, it's because I just couldn't be arsed to go beyond a simple drive by. This is because it just burns me how serious this kind of discussion currently is. It should not be that difficult to stay "canon" when making movies or writing books.

Last edited by 0073 (20th Aug 2020 09:55)

"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech

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Re: Black James Bond

I subscribe  to " The Critical Drinker "
Very entertaining  and informative.  ajb007/cheers

“God has given you one face, and you make yourself another"

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Re: Black James Bond

0073 wrote:
emtiem wrote:

YouTube? That's not where I head for my dose of level-headed fair-minded analysis ajb007/smile

WHAT!? How can you say that about someone, whose channel in "tube" is named "Critical Drinker"!? Have you no decency?

My point is: you take the character or plot far enough away from the source material, and it's just a movie. It could be a critically acclaimed block buster, but it's still just a movie. Yes you could score some points making the lead character an african-american crippled lesbian in a wheel chair (just imagine all the gadgets that that would make possible), but that would not be a James Bond -movie. Just look at Bourne Legacy, is it entertaining? -yes, does it have "Bourne" in the title? -yes, is it a "Jason Bourne" -movie? -No, it's an Aaron Cross movie, with a name of a Jason Bourne novel!

I think seeing the progression of society as just 'scoring points' is a pretty important point here though. Bond fans said the same thing about Bond no longer smoking or the women not being squealing helpless idiots in bikinis.
Making Bond a woman would indeed be changing the character into something it isn't. Making him a Scotsman or an Irishman or changing his eye colour or hair colour hasn't, and changing his skin colour wouldn't either. Your argument about 'points scoring' seems more based on a reaction to seeing a group of people on Twitter to claim it as a victory than it would actual damage to the character itself.

0073 wrote:

If that felt a little blunt and poorly argued, it's because I just couldn't be arsed to go beyond a simple drive by. This is because it just burns me how serious this kind of discussion currently is. It should not be that difficult to stay "canon" when making movies or writing books.

It just depends on what you think is important about canon. These are adaptations: they get -literally- adapted. Which means changed to fit the new medium, and it always has done. Sometimes keeping the style, tone or intention is enough to honour that, it doesn't mean he has to wear a Sea Island cotton shirt in every scene and drive a 1930s Bentley, because he'd look ridiculous doing that.

Thunderpussy wrote:

I subscribe  to " The Critical Drinker "
Very entertaining  and informative.  ajb007/cheers

I only ever play him on x1.5 speed to get rid of the stupid effect on his voice though ajb007/biggrin

Last edited by emtiem (20th Aug 2020 10:57)