Was Mathis a Traitor? (Page 1 of 3)

The ambiguity from this sceen shows how badly written the script was.I think parts where written in crayon. 

I'll have you know zaphod, that I'm soooooooo sophisticated, I always wipe the neck of the Buckfast bottle when it gets passes round. 

As someone who likes to enjoy a good wine (or Scotch) and art gallery exhibitions, I can say QoS is not sophisticated. It tries desperately to be so while also retro, and artistic. As a result it comes across in places as confused, and others badly pretentious.  - This scene is a disturbing example of both crashing like a head on train wreck! A little mystery is a good thing, but not to the point where you have no idea what is going on.  -  I only get missing answers in here when people provide them.

Whats really shame is its a crashing waste of talent on the part of the actors in those scenes.  Ok, I'll stop grousing now!

The scene from QOS reminds of the other Brilliant piece of work " The naked gun Thirty three and a Third " where Anna nicole smith says to Frank Drebbin ( The great Leslie Neilsen )
   " Your Bishop is exposed " commenting on his chess playing, at first an obvious joke but on looking Deeper. It's a clear reference to the plight of Arch-Bishop Desmond Tutu and his fight for equality.
I agree Tosca is not for everyone, But then again gaze at your navel long enough and any old Bollocks can be made to look Intellectual    Mabey they could get Tracy Emmin to do the set design for Bond 23. or  get Damien Hirst to do a job on a Piranha pond.  " Bonnet de Douche "  Rodney.

Couldn't both Vesper and Mathis be traitors ? Just working for different sides..?..that's certainly how I see it.

I mean that Mathis really WAS Le Chiffre's friend and that Vesper was being worked by Quantum through her boyfriend Yusuf Kabira....so, both traitors...just reporting back to different sides...

i like this thought but i believe that vesper was the real traitor and le chiffre had known that vesper was working for quantum so they kept the ruse of mathis being the traitor so that vesper could work her magic on bond and turn him as said by mr.white in qos when he said that they would have had him too. but this is just my view on the whole situation

I think you are forgetting that Le Chiffre didn't have the password for the money. He needed Vesper to help work Bond for the password to get the money.

Also, don't forget that even Vesper is surprised when Bond mentions on the beach that Mathis didn't have his back. She probably would have a feeling or not acted as surprised if Mathis was also working for Quantum or Le Chiffre. Unless Mathis was just shadowing her. But still Bond probably would not ask for Mathis' help in Quantum if he really believed he was a traitor and would set him up in South America (I can't remember the country).

To the OP, a confusing scene indeed. I always thought everyone knew the answer and that i was just being dumb and couldn't figure it out, nice to know that no one really knows, haha. Anyway, doesn't bond say something like, "was mathis your cover name?" to which he replies yes and bond replies again with something like, "not a very good one i guess." I always thought that meant Mathis was working for quantum as a double agent type thing. I guess i might just not be remembering the scene very well, i haven't watched QoS recently, and i don't plan to anytime soon.

Yes...that's definately a part of it (IMO)...but perhaps Quantum also wanted Bond, so didn't want Le Chiffre to kill him....and it just so happened that to kill Le Chiffre then would give them a chance to get Bond on their side and send out a message too....and they knew that Vesper would just tell them the bank details, they needed Bond for the password....and it's much easier for them to get it through Vesper than through torture...
You say the threat of violence against Vesper wasn't real....why not ? It was far easier all round to get Vesper to get the information from Bond [exactly how she did] rather than waste time torturing him...that doesn't make sense... The torture scene only makes sense [to me at least] IF Le Chiffre doesn't work directly for Quantum and therefore can't get his money before Quantum come for him...otherwise Le Chiffre would just ask Vesper to ask Bond for the password and he'd have his money in a matter of minutes...

As for Mathis..?..there is very little proof that he's not a double-agent...apart from the line in QoS....I guess you pays your money and takes your choice...

I'll try to explain my thinking on this. I didn't think that Vesper had direct control over the money. Even though she says "I'm the money" once Bond gets the money, it's his. Remember the banker. Now, when Bond needs more money, Vesper probably would need to put in a request. Which she didn't want to do. She wanted Bond out of the game to save her "boyfriend" who she thought would be killed. Bond didn't want to ask M for the money because Vesper would probably complain that Bond is too reckless and would just lose the money again.

I always assumed Vesper told Le Chiffre (either directly or indirectly) that Bond knew his tell. As I mentioned I think in this or another post, Eva Green gives a great performance as Vesper through her facial expressions. For example, after Bond gets back in the poker game, Vesper is clearly angry.

On the torture, I vaguely remember in the book that Vesper wasn't tortured. In the movie, Bond was going to take the password to his death. Le Chiffre enjoyed torturing him for putting him through all the trouble in the poker game. Le Chiffre probably even assumed that Bond is the guy who caused all his plans to go wrong. Anyway, after Bond wins the poker game, Vesper had no real reason to ask for the password. If anything, Vesper asking for the password would have made Bond suspicious. Torture with the threat of violence against Vesper was the best route at that time. Both for Le Chiffre who desperately needed the money and Quantum since they were most likely unsure if Vesper could get it back. Remember, Vesper didn't give Bond the extra money. She didn't know if she could get the password. So, if Bond sees Vesper injured he would correctly assume that they are going to kill them anyway. The scream is the threat of harm. If Vesper was unharmed, Bond would think they aren't serious enough and there is the possibility of escape. Then Vesper could get the password, which is pretty much what happened.

I think Mathis was infact a Triple agent, By asking Bond for forgivness he was playing a double bluff, so Bond would think he was only a double agent, Infact he knew what Bond knew and some of what Bond didn't know, While Bond knew only some of What Mathis knew but all of what he knew, Both Men knowing all of their own Knowlage but less of what the other knew. In a way they both knew what they knew But knew That some things where unknown to each other so had some known knowns, and some unknown knowns mixed with unknown Knowns, I hope this Clarifies matters.

At last, everything has become crystal clear, thanks TP.