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The film currently has 8.2 on imdb.com. When I first checked it, it was at 8.6, then it kept dropping by .1 every so often I checked it.

Just to compare, does anyone know what CR's imdb score was when it was first released? That's settled at 7.9 now...

1 - Lald, 2 - Ltk, 3 - Avtak, 4 - Op, 5 - Dn, 6 - Fyeo, 7 - Tswlm, 8 - Daf, 9 - Sf, 10 - Ohmss, 11 - Yolt, 12 - Ge, 13 - Tld, 14 - Mr, 15 - Gf, 16 - Tb, 17 - Tmwtgg, 18 - Sp, 19 - Tnd, 20 - Dad, 21 - Twine, 22 - Frwl, 23 - Cr, 24 - Qos

1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby

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osris wrote:
minigeff wrote:

in what way was it a big deal? we only saw it for about a minute at the most.

The way it was introduced seemed like the producers were making a statement about the future direction of the reboot. Anyway, how do we know it isn’t in a part of the Vauxhall Cross building that wasn’t damaged?

He was on the room of a Building, possibly MOD in Whitehall, when Eve arrived and said she didn't know you could go up there.  Then they seem to have quickly got down to her office.  There does not seem to be break long enough for them to get all the way to VC.

Was VC shown before TWINE? I wonder if they moved there just to use the iconic building for the Q-boat launch?

No reason for them to move back to VC for "realism".

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minigeff wrote:

good point, in which case, it'd be a temporary office woudn't it?

The office Judy Dench used in the earlier part of SF after the Vauxhall Cross building was damaged was temporary, and so for M to be moved from one temporary office to another makes little sense, especially a “temporary” office that is part of the Bond heritage, used in all the Bond films up till AVWAK.

And the introduction of this classic M's office at the end of the film, along with a new M and Moneypenny (are they temporary? No), indicates that this is M’s new office.

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justcallmesir wrote:

He was on the room of a Building, possibly MOD in Whitehall, when Eve arrived and said she didn't know you could go up there.

I don’t see how Eve not knowing you could go up there indicates that the building (whatever it is) is not the location of M’s new office. Any high security building would have restricted areas.

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osris wrote:
minigeff wrote:

good point, in which case, it'd be a temporary office woudn't it?

And the introduction of this classic M's office at the end of the film, along with a new M and Moneypenny (are they temporary? No), indicates that this is M’s new office.

M's new temporary office?

'Force feeding AJB humour and banter since 2009'
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org

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The office at the end is blatantly the new office that will be used for years to come. If that office isn't used for bond 24, then the scenes involving it at the end of SF would have been more or less pointless/undone IMO, and a lot of bond fans would be pissed off.

1 - Lald, 2 - Ltk, 3 - Avtak, 4 - Op, 5 - Dn, 6 - Fyeo, 7 - Tswlm, 8 - Daf, 9 - Sf, 10 - Ohmss, 11 - Yolt, 12 - Ge, 13 - Tld, 14 - Mr, 15 - Gf, 16 - Tb, 17 - Tmwtgg, 18 - Sp, 19 - Tnd, 20 - Dad, 21 - Twine, 22 - Frwl, 23 - Cr, 24 - Qos

1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby

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osris wrote:
justcallmesir wrote:

He was on the roof of a Building, possibly MOD, in Whitehall, when Eve arrived and said she didn't know you could go up there.

I don’t see how Eve not knowing you could go up there indicates that the building (whatever it is) is not the location of M’s new office. Any high security building would have restricted areas.

What I meant was the conversation which began when she said "I didn't know..." started on the roof of a Whitehall building.  It seemed that the same conversation ended just outside M's office, and it didn't seem there was much missing from it. Therefore I thought the office was in that building, not VC.

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Jarvio wrote:

The office at the end is blatantly the new office that will be used for years to come. If that office isn't used for bond 24, then the scenes involving it at the end of SF would have been more or less pointless/undone IMO, and a lot of bond fans would be pissed off.

My point exactly. I can't imagine it not being used for his office after us being led to believe it will be. The producers/scriptwriters just wouldn’t do that.

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justcallmesir wrote:

What I meant was the conversation which began when she said "I didn't know..." started on the roof of a Whitehall building.  It seemed that the same conversation ended just outside M's office, and it didn't seem there was much missing from it. Therefore I thought the office was in that building, not VC.

You might be right. My point, though, was just to say that wherever the building is (Whitehall or Vauxhall Cross) M’s office, as shown at the end of SF, must be in this building.

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minigeff wrote:

M's new temporary office?

No, his office for good... or at least for the foreseeable future.

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Sorry I'm late!   Saw my second screening today, so got a fresher perspective.  I have tried to avoid major Spoilers, but I'll let you all judge.  I try to do a review every so often to keep myself sharp, hence the layout.  Ok, here we go...




Title: Skyfall  (James Bond 23)

Tagline:  “Think On Your Sins...”
---------------------------------------------


Bond's loyalty to M is tested, when dark secrets surface from her past and MI6 is attacked....


I'll be blunt. I hate Quantum Of Solace. After the fantastic new beginning that had been Casino Royale I was very disappointed to say the least. So when Skyfall loomed on the horizon, I approached it with a wary sense  of caution, even though I was only hearing good things regarding director, casting, possible storyline and concepts...  Could it live up to the 50 year legacy of the 007 film library?
    The driving force  of the film is the fact that a figure from M's (Judi Dench) past has been hiding in the shadows and is now out to torment her. Silva (Javier Bardem) starts this little plan by stealing sensitive information compromising MI6 agents and attacking the Vauxhaull building. The basic concept is clever, but it has its flaws. All the previous Bond films have highlighted that MI6 is like a small army, with the 00 section a specialist team within that. Trying to make the head of the organisation seem really weak or vulnerable was always going to be a tall order.  Its also unfortunate that Bond himself sometimes feels a bit set to one side in this concept. The films are about him and who he is as well as what he does, and yet even when he is centre stage this is M's story and it looms over everything. - Its all about her, and how she relates to everything else.

    The main characters are all given something to do, but there is a distinct structure that shows it is primarily a three character story – Bond, M and Silva, with everyone else skirting around the edges. Eve, (Naomie Harris) Mallory, (Ralph Fiennes)  Tanner, (Rory Kinnear) Q (Ben Whishaw) and Kincade (Albert Finney) are solidly formed but feel a bit like chess pieces to drive the story forward. - Pop in, do their current piece and buzz off again. This is only lessened for the staff because we know Tanner from previous films and Q and Eve come into their own in their respective scenes.  Once the action starts moving to Scotland, it signposts in more ways than one.

    Skyfall tries hard to be new and bang up to date while trying to reconnect with 007's history as established by Ian Fleming. The film both succeeds and fails in this endeavour, because the references to the past feel like bolt ons. Its common knowledge the Aston DB5 reappears in this film. So far so good. But is that a reference to Casino Royale, - or Goldfinger? Another example, Bond is  established as a tired war horse in this film. There are questions about how long he has been in service, whereas he is new to the game of espionage in Casino R and still seen as rebellious in QoS which was a direct continuation. - How much time has actually passed here? An unknown assassination takes place. There is no clarification as to how and where it fits in with the rest of the story, and is never clarified.  Finally the use of Skyfall itself seems strange, and the final quarter of the film is very odd. If you have seen “The Dark Night Rises” you will know what I mean. Without giving away the plot the film has an empty victory feel about it, and one is left questioning Bond's tactics and where the producers plan to go next in the grand narrative concept.  This is not helped by the writer's sudden need to fill in Bond's family background in visual queues that jar with the “M's story” main plot, and don't make sense in the greater context of what is happening.

    The cast for the film is more like a West End who's who. Alongside the establishment of Daniel Craig as Bond, Dame Judi as M, and Rory Kinnear as Tanner, we are introduced to Ralph Fiennes as the government overseer Mallory keeping an eye on MI6 from the PM's perspective, Ben Whishaw as a new and fresh take on the Quartermaster and Naomie Harris as field agent Eve.  Whishaw is fantastic as the new Q, a character who could easily be seen as the grandson of Desmond Llewellyn more mechanically minded gadget-master in the original Dr No - Die Another Day timeline. A nice touch is his opening scene with Bond, appreciating one of the paintings at the National Gallery. The coda is obvious, but its lovely to see  the character appreciates artistic things as many technically minded people often do, and the wit displayed by both characters is delightful to watch. 
         Harris as well fires through her scenes with energy, verve and humour, showing a character that is good at what she does, even if she does not seem entirely happy with it. At least, that was the impression I was left with from the pre-credits sequence. I have been a fan of this actress for years, and having seen her in several tv series and films its a delight to watch her in Bond's world.
    Also delightful is Javier Bardem as Silva, a combination of all the best elements of previous baddies, - slightly unusual appearance, charm, brutal sadism, and perhaps the strongest part of the character – a perversely quirky, witty sense of humour. His little “poop” sound effect when describing technology and MI6 make you smile, even when you already know he is a bad guy to rival the worst.  Bardem is clearly enjoying himself immensely and throws that energy into the character. He even flirts with Bond and Daniel Craig's response as 007 is a classic moment of one-upmanship. Very well done!  Sadly the same cannot be said for Bernice Marlohe as  Severine .  I say that simply because the indications were we were going to be given another Pussy Galore of Xenia Onnatop type of character, so to see how little screen time she actually gets, and the ultimate nature of the character is disappointing. The actress is sexy and mysterious in the part and its a real shame she was not given more to do, though she gives it her all with what screen time she does get.
The supporting cast is well thought out too, with Albert Finney giving a delightful but too brief appearance as Kincade. Again, an opportunity to look at Bond's past feels rushed and shoved in any old how, and the fact we get no practical time with the character reflects this. His “Welcome to Scotland!” had the cinema audience in hysterics. Good actors, excellent characterisation but just not enough time to build on the who's and the whys except for the plot elements relating directly to M.

     Direction is an area where a film flies or dies, and I was interested to learn that Sam Mendes had directed Daniel Craig and Judi Dench on the stage, as well as being a film director. Then I groaned – more arty farty symbolism, or deconstruction of the Bond legend? I needn’t have worried though, the direction style works well and what was in front of the camera is put on the screen. Though there is a tendency to play with height levels (tall skyscrapers looking straight down, buried underground looking up at sharp angles,) it doesn't have a poor impact on the look of the film. Good use of close ups capture character expression as well without overdoing it. I do think I could be forgiven for thinking that Mr Mendes may have had a chat with a certain Mr C Nolan in some places though!

    There is one area where Skyfall is weak. I missed the soundtrack the first time round completely, so on my second viewing deliberately paid closer attention. It was then I realised why it had sneaked past me. It is well orchestrated, but feels ordinary. Thomas Newman has not done anything particularly Bondian and even the use of the signature 007 theme music feels it was been dropped in as an embarrassed afterthought. The only exception to this is Adele's theme song, which although obscure at first makes sense when you know the story. I am not familiar with her work, but she does a good job of creating a Bond song at least as serviceable as the 007 back catalogue, even though it probably won't have the longevity of say, Goldfinger of You Only Live Twice.  To me that’s more the music industry's failing, not the song.

           The other departments have clearly been working hard as they always do on Bond, and I am grateful to see the last Editor must have got the chop one way or another. - Skyfall returns to the exciting but sensibly paced cutting of the action that the previous films had, avoiding the epilepsy inducing mess QoS was. All the action sequences are laid bare to see, so we can see the work of the stunt teams, set designers and special effects folk in rich detail. Like the dialogue, you pick up more details in the visuals and effects the second time around the block. Cinematography of Shanghai and Macau is contrasted by the greyer hues used for London, and Scotland is given a mixture of colour until darkness falls. All steps in the right direction. Even the reference to the A9 is correct! It is home territory - I lived in Pitlochry for years and traveled down the road the day before the film's premiere, trust me on that one.

Which in a funny way, brings me back to where I started. Does Skyfall make up for the errors of QoS? For the most part, yes it does, while making one or two smaller ones of its own. Is it as good as Casino Royale was? No. Nevertheless, its a valid entry in the Bond library, and although its internal references to Bond's past as a character are all to brief and fragmented, and it IS M's story, once you get that, the film itself proves the character of 007, and the concept continue to have a bright future.  - Thank God!


Rating 7 out of 9

---------------------------------------------

This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?

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osris wrote:
minigeff wrote:

M's new temporary office?

No, his office for good... or at least for the foreseeable future.

As in until MI6 move back into the rebuilt Vauxhall Cross building for bond 24?

'Force feeding AJB humour and banter since 2009'
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org

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minigeff wrote:
osris wrote:
minigeff wrote:

M's new temporary office?

No, his office for good... or at least for the foreseeable future.

As in until MI6 move back into the rebuilt Vauxhall Cross building for bond 24?

Or a pyramid, shipwreck, monestry... ;-)

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osris wrote:
justcallmesir wrote:

What I meant was the conversation which began when she said "I didn't know..." started on the roof of a Whitehall building.  It seemed that the same conversation ended just outside M's office, and it didn't seem there was much missing from it. Therefore I thought the office was in that building, not VC.

You might be right. My point, though, was just to say that wherever the building is (Whitehall or Vauxhall Cross) M’s office, as shown at the end of SF, must be in this building.

We are agreed.

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justcallmesir wrote:
osris wrote:
justcallmesir wrote:

What I meant was the conversation which began when she said "I didn't know..." started on the roof of a Whitehall building.  It seemed that the same conversation ended just outside M's office, and it didn't seem there was much missing from it. Therefore I thought the office was in that building, not VC.

You might be right. My point, though, was just to say that wherever the building is (Whitehall or Vauxhall Cross) M’s office, as shown at the end of SF, must be in this building.

We are agreed.

Yeah indeed, but my money is on M relocating back to Vauxhall. That leather padded door can come off its hinges ya know. Last time I saw it, it was in the Barbican!

'Force feeding AJB humour and banter since 2009'
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org

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minigeff wrote:
justcallmesir wrote:
osris wrote:

You might be right. My point, though, was just to say that wherever the building is (Whitehall or Vauxhall Cross) M’s office, as shown at the end of SF, must be in this building.

We are agreed.

Yeah indeed, but my money is on M relocating back to Vauxhall. That leather padded door can come off its hinges ya know. Last time I saw it, it was in the Barbican!

As long as it isn't in a pyramid, or a shipwreck (actually that one almost made sense) or that building in Brazil :-)

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Just had second viewing, enjoyed it as much as first time. Appreciated Ralph Fiennes/Mallory much more this time around and Albert Fiinney played his role perfectly. Could really have done with more Silva screen time. The titles were good and Adele's song (whoever she is) fits in really well.

Did JB have an opportunity to wipe out Silva and men when they land from Helicopter and he has a clear view of them in doorway for a couple of seconds- I think JB had a machine gun on him.

Bond didn't actually get to use his signature gun but I suppose it was the opposite in that no one else could use it also.

I reckon M should have pulled the trigger - seeing as he was on her way out anyway from the series.

I know Eve has a british accent throughout but did she go a bit African in the PTS when she knocked the windscreen out and told people to get out of the way??

Would they have killed Patrice if he had turned up with the chip or were they going to kill JB because Patrice didn't turn up.

So Silva was 'abandoned' by M and all accounts was better than Bond currently is now - could Bond ever lose a screw and do the same thing?

The Bond cues were all over the place and could have been betetr utilised.

Still a good viewing.

Last edited by A7ce (4th Nov 2012 21:55)

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Shady Tree wrote:
Napoleon Plural wrote:

I saw the film last night and didn't rate it. ...

Overall I found 'Skyfall' an enjoyable experience but your damning review is well argued. I've been tinkering with edits to my own review over the course of this week, trying to clarify my initial observations, but I'm going for a second viewing this weekend and I'll bear in mind your criticisms as I'm watching.

I've now had a second viewing, and I still like the film. Napoleon Plural, your negative review picks out a number of implausible plot points. These are undeniably there, and I find M's/Kincade's unwise use of a torch as they make their way towards the chapel among the most niggling. But narrative logic is less important to the film than its symbolic and visual logic - and at those levels the movie succeeds. The other point I'd concur with you on is that the London rush hour scenes, where Bond is pursuing Silva through the Underground system, don't quite work: the extras playing the commuters look a little too self-conscious imho, as if they're quietly thrilled that they're in a Bond film. Bourne did London Waterloo more convincingly than Bond does the District Line.

Last edited by Shady Tree (4th Nov 2012 22:31)

Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 49 years.

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Shady Tree wrote:
Shady Tree wrote:
Napoleon Plural wrote:

I saw the film last night and didn't rate it. ...

Overall I found 'Skyfall' an enjoyable experience but your damning review is well argued. I've been tinkering with edits to my own review over the course of this week, trying to clarify my initial observations, but I'm going for a second viewing this weekend and I'll bear in mind your criticisms as I'm watching.

I've now had a second viewing, and I still like the film. Napoleon Plural, your negative review picks out a number of implausible plot points. These are undeniably there, and I find M's/Kincade's unwise use of a torch as they make their way towards the chapel among the most niggling. But narrative logic is less important to the film than its symbolic and visual logic - and at those levels the movie succeeds. The other point I'd concur with you on is that the London rush hour scenes, where Bond is pursuing Silva through the Underground system, don't quite work: the extras playing the commuters look a little too self-conscious imho, as if they're quietly thrilled that they're in a Bond film. Bourne did London Waterloo more convincingly than Bond does the District Line.

I disagree about narrative logic - QoS was in part a shambles because Quantum's motives did not make sense. - Still don't to me.

However I completely agree about the Underground commuter extras! There were several I spotted on both viewings who just look like they are thinking "Oh my God, I'm working with James Bond, on a James Bond!" Not good.  Having done a little Extra work myself, I have witnessed how getting carried away has killed work for some, and as a former London commuter, I know that the main expression actually is "daydreaming zombie meets  hostile Anthropophobic!"  If someone pushes past you, do you look like you want their autograph?!  Sorry, rant over.

This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?

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Regarding the new building it is most definitely NOT MoD Main building in London as you can see this in the background as DC is stood on the roof, also neither MI5 or MI6 have been based in MoD main building in the last 50 years.

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Thunderbird 2 wrote:

        The cast for the film is more like a West End who's who. Alongside the establishment of Daniel Craig as Bond, Dame Judi as M, and Rory Kinnear as Tanner, we are introduced to Ralph Fiennes as the government overseer Mallory keeping an eye on MI6 from the PM's perspective, Ben Whishaw as a new and fresh take on the Quartermaster and Naomie Harris as field agent Eve.  Whishaw is fantastic as the new Q, a character who could easily be seen as the grandson of Desmond Llewellyn more mechanically minded gadget-master in the original Dr No - Die Another Day timeline. A nice touch is his opening scene with Bond, appreciating one of the paintings at the National Gallery. The coda is obvious, but its lovely to see  the character appreciates artistic things as many technically minded people often do, and the wit displayed by both characters is delightful to watch.

Yeah, but to what end? Both Kinnear and Wilshaw are said to be the best Hamlets on the West End stage for the last 20 years. But it's not like they get to stretch their acting chops in a Bond film, so why bother? In particular, Tanner has been in two films now and does anyone know what his personality is? It could be any actor in the role. Okay, Whishaw has a personality as Q - but it could be a far less actor as he's still just a stereotype, in fact that Richard Akoeyede from The IT Crowd could do it just as well, and have a more comic persona to boot.
Same with Fiennes, he's not bad but it may as well be the cold fish bloke from The Living Daylights, who we've never seen again in anything. Actually, I find these kind of actors wrong for the kind of film where they're meant to just dip in and make an impression, rather than give a layered, development of character.

"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

Roger Moore 1927-2017

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minigeff wrote:

As in until MI6 move back into the rebuilt Vauxhall Cross building for bond 24?

As I said before, how do we know the office isn’t already in the Vauxhall Cross building? Not all of the building was destroyed. Besides, wherever the office is housed, I think it will appear in Bond 24—it’s too iconic just to be used merely as an in-joke at the end of SF.

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Of course in Dr No Bond worked for MI7 , new department, new boss, new HQ?

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Although to fully tie In, The fall in
the Lake should of Darkened Bond's hair
and given him a Scottish accent.   ajb007/lol

“God has given you one face, and you make yourself another"

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Some of our UK regulars are slow to post their opinions... Lady Rose, Lexi, FelixLeiter girl...

Amazed how some folk on other forums bang on about wanting the gunbarrel at the beginning of the film... It's a ritual thing I guess.

"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

Roger Moore 1927-2017