26

Re: Pros and Cons: Skyfall

If only She'd given him a hug, all that unpleasantness
May have been avoided.  ajb007/wink

“I didn’t lose a friend, I just realised I never had one.”

27

Re: Pros and Cons: Skyfall

Now that I think about it, he does give some justification for his actions, but because there's really not much of a through-line as far as 'connecting exposition' goes, it didn't make a whole lot of sense, at least to me.

28

Re: Pros and Cons: Skyfall

Thunderpussy wrote:

most of the action is Plenty of running around London, with a few shoot outs, As mentioned no Big stunt sequences. Then again that was probably done because thay wanted the audience to focus on the story.  Hopefully they'll have some
Big sequences for 24.   ajb007/biggrin

Hmm. Perhaps  ajb007/shifty

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

29

Re: Pros and Cons: Skyfall

I watched Skyfall again in preparation for Spectre.

Pros:
- exciting and beautiful PTS sequence
- great title sequence
- Ralph Fiennes!
- Judi Dench gives a fantastic performance
- Good chemistry and dialogue between Bond and Eve
- beautiful cinematography. It accentuates the feel of the locations, like Istanbul and Scotland. The finale at Skyfall looks fantastic
- Severine is an interesting character
- Great casino scene
- Hashima island is a great location, even if it's not really filmed there. It's created very well through CGI.
- SIlva is an interesting and unique villain with some great lines
- Ralph Fiennes is beautifully dressed by Timothy Everest
- The tube sequence is fantastic. It's great to see the most English character involved in one of the most iconic parts of London.
- Action scenes are not overdone, they are very interesting, diverse and overall well done.
- M's fight for James Bond's relevancy, both to the characters within the film and to the film's audience.
- A nice look into Bond's childhood. I love how it debunks the codename theory
- The Skyfall manor is a great location, and it makes me want to live there
- Albert Finney is a welcome addition, and his personality balances Bond's lack of personality
- Great to see M's office back on Whitehall again

Cons:
- The gunbarrel sequence should have opening the film. Bond walking down a hallway lacks impact for the opening. The gunbarrel at the end is just stuck on and not synched with the music. It looks pretty awful as well.
- Why should M put Bond's life in the hands of an inexperienced agent? It's not like Bond's chances are over once the train goes into the tunnel. M has a terrible excuse, and Mallory is right for wanting her out. With all of M's and Bond's experience, this should not have happened. Poor writing.
- Title song. The tune and the lyrics are just so simple and boring. At least it has a Bondian sound.
- Is Bond's poor performance due to his age or his injury? And he's blamed for his injury?. Poor writing.
- M shows more poor judgement in hiring a kid to be in change of Q-Branch. He's very capable, but skills alone do not make anyone qualified for that job. The head of Q-Brand should be someone who shows maturity and leadership skills and good judgement. It makes no sense he would be the head of Q-Branch. Again, poor writing.
- Shanghai is too obviously not Shanghai. Its grandeur is completely absent.
- Bad dialogue when Bond has to tell Severine about herself
- Terrible CGI Komodo dragon. CGI works much better for inanimate objects, like Hashima. Why bother to do something if it can't be done believably? It just ruins the suspense of the fight.
- The plot holes of Silva's plan that are routinely brought up.
- Bond's DB5 did not have to break continuity for nostalgic purposes. It's Bond's personal car that he won in CR, but Mendes had to go against the writers and make it into something else for an out-of-place gag.
- Bond shouldn't have survived the drop off the train or the drop in the freezing water
- M's death is horrible. When she is shot, it doesn't seem like anything fatal, especially when she can still walk for a while after she is shot.
- Bond fails his missions: retrieving the hard drive (though it's M's fault for not trusting Bond) and letting M die. Daniel Craig's Bond failing so often makes him a less interesting character to me. I could lose these missions too!
- Bond's wardrobe: Poorly fitted suits that are much too tight. Bond is supposed to be out of shape, but is he supposed to look like he got too fat for his clothes? Tab collar shirts are out of place and too fussy on Bond. And a single vent on a dinner jacket? Awful! Bond also would not make the mistake of pairing a grosgrain bow tie with a satin shawl collar.
- Bond's haircut. It makes him look like a thug. It should have been longer when Bond lets himself go living on the beach. He doesn't shave often, yet he keeps his hair consistent? And how is Bond's stubble always the same length? It doesn't make sense that Bond would put work into maintaining his stubble for a few days and then have it shaven off.
- Is Bond supposed to look bad? He's still in great physical shape, yet he looks 10 year older than Daniel Craig really is. If Ralph Fiennes still had a full head of hair, he would no doubt look like he should be Bond's replacement.
- Thomas Newman's score is boring and lacks a Bond feel. Severine's motif is the only decent part, but it's still not a fully developed theme. The score lacks musical development. Some of the cues don't work well in the context of the film, like at the casino or when the Skyfall mansion is being prepped for battle. I know I could write a better score for the film, and I don't like that the score makes me think that.
- Daniel Craig plays Bond too much like a machine and shows no personality. Why bother to show his background to make him more human if he doesn't act human?

My list of cons isn't actually longer than my list of pros, it's just that I feel the cons need more explaining.

30

Re: Pros and Cons: Skyfall

Bond Marathon and only the 3rd time I've seen Skyfall  ajb007/takecover

Pros:

- PTS is well done, especially with Eve
- Title credit sequence by Danny K (good to see him back)
- Excellent action sequences
- Great casting choices and acting by all involved, in particular Bardem, Craig and Dench
- Tanner and Q
- Locations, especially UK
- Severine is stunning
- Shanghai/Macau sequences very well done, Eve is stunning at the casino
- Skyfall in Scotland, raid on house
- Resetting of roles with Moneypenny, Q, Tanner and M
- Beautifully shot

Cons:

- Pacing is slow and too deliberate, some shots are too long (Shanghai skyline in particular)
- Film is too inwardly focussed on MI6, Bond's life/past and M
- Adele's "Skyfall" is boring
- Newman's score is boring too
- Removal of Silva's teeth is a too horror-film for JB
- Film's length
- Bond's weak joke before M collapses
- Elaborate revenge plot against a mother-figure for a boss  ajb007/rolleyes

Overall:

It's an enjoyable watch without a doubt. The film is very well put together, acted, and it's even extremely beautiful to look at. But one thing I find myself thinking about when watching Skyfall is "yeah I get it, he's an orphan and troubled, but who cares, can we just get on with it!?". There's too much inward focus in this film and while it is needed to resolve the questions posed in CR and QoS - it all just feels a little too serious for the Bond I love.

Even with that said, Skyfall is a very well crafted film from a talented director that many people enjoy and was enormously successful. For non-Bond fans I can understand why so many like it, because it does feel original within the universe, but when Craig couldn't shoot worth a damn because he'd drunk too much while being dead, I couldn't help but think about Dalton's shot when escaping the bar and Moore's "did I?". I don't feel any relief or "Bond's back" when he regathers his aim. Bond IMO, in the universe I love, should never really lose it. DAD (heaven forbid) did the Bond/M trust conflict and Bond disappearing element much better, because it was brief.

Spectre is much better than Skyfall because it does get back to where it should be as teased-on at the end of Skyfall. But made all the more frustrating by this viewing, because it still continues with the inward focus and political posturing :S

1. TWINE  2. FYEO  3. MR  4. TLD  5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS  7. DN  8. OP  9. AVTAK  10. TMWTGG  11. QoS 12. GE  13. CR  14. TB  15. FRWL  16. LTK  17. GF  18. SF  19. LaLD  20. YOLT  21. TND  22. DAD  23. DAF.

"If you'll forgive me, that's a little too scented for my palate."

31

Re: Pros and Cons: Skyfall

Finally got round to watching this again last night.

Pros:
PTS
Titles/Song
All the actors.
Direction, Photography, Script.
JB, M, Q and Moneypenny - the "team" are back!
Shanghai sequence
Macau sequence
Skyfall sequence
Some fabulous establishing shots.

Cons:
Music is so-so.
The tube train crash looks poor and is really not needed anyway.

It's back to form after the disastrous QOS. The story is good and everyone plays off each other really well. It's almost, if not quite as good as CR, but it's very close. DC has grown into the role, he is a very believable Bond. This ranks very high in my "new" list.

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

32

Re: Pros and Cons: Skyfall

Skyfall is one of the few Bond films that gets less enjoyable every time i watch it. Despite that, theres still some good stuff here.

Pros:
.The cinematography is truly excellent. Mainly during the China and Scotland scenes.
.The locations are stunning.
.The theme song and title sequence are terrific. This and GE are Kleinman's best work.
.Great cast and acting all around.
.The entire China section is pretty cool.
.Really dig the finale apart from some of the melodrama.
.The end scene got me pumped for Bond 24.
.Has a real patriotic feel.

Cons:
.The score, apart from Grand Bizaar and a couple of slower tracks just doesn't do it for me. I've been spoiled by Barry and Arnold.
.The film features the worst gunbarrel. Its at the end for no good reason, the walk is bad, and don't get me started on the design. ajb007/smile
.Rory Kinnear. Personally I would've kept Villiers.
.Too much CGI.
.Severine is underused.
.Daniel Craig's haircut and wardrobe. ajb007/insane
.Kincade using a flashlight.
.I just really wanted to see a sequel to QOS that showed this new type of Bond in his prime.

8/10  ajb007/martini

Last edited by Remington (28th Nov 2017 00:02)

1. Connery 2. Moore 3. Dalton 4. Brosnan 5. Craig 6. Lazenby

33

Re: Pros and Cons: Skyfall

con - Silva had the first great looking villain's HQ in ages, yet the scenes in this HQ were rushed and resolved much too soon, with nearly half the film yet to come ... and the action then moved back to Britain, bad enough in and of itself but also setting precedent for the structure of the next film ... let's hope future generations recognise this as a mistake and never do it again, final acts should always be big productions showing off the villains HQ

pro - replacing the traditional villains HQ with Bond's childhood home is actually a clever twist ... and we do get to explore Bonds ancestral HQ, setting up all the traps in the various rooms then hiding in the priesthole, and it does get blowed up real good at the end, all the things that should have happened with Silva's HQ but didn't

34

Re: Pros and Cons: Skyfall

Now that Bond25 has got delayed, there isn't such a rush to rewatch his first four. But might as well keep going, right? Specially since its all one big story.
This one I actually liked better than I had remembered.


________________________________________
PROS
- Only all-original title to not include the word "Die". And coincidentally the only good all-original title.
- First theme song since tWiNE that actually sounds like a Bond theme.
- Classic transition from precredits to credits. This is always one of my favourite moments in any Bondfilm, and is done particularly well here.

- Only self contained CraigBond film, revisionist retcons notwithstanding.
- Aside from (the second half of) Casino Royale, this film has the most coherent plot of all the Craig-films. And it's cleverly structured with several symmetries, and some deep thoughts to ponder.
- Symmetries: Bond's obsolescence is echoed by M's enforced retirement after a string of failures. M's decision to let Bond get shot is echoed by M's decision to trade Sylva to the enemy.
- also: the British BullDog  statue is echoed when Moneypenny calls Bond an old dog, and by all the action happening in Churchill's bunkers. That little statue on M's desk carries a lot of symbolic weight.
- The story has a lot of character moments for Bond, M and Sylva without all the soap opera vibe of the previous film.

- Bits and pieces of Fleming, in particular the end of YOLT and beginning of tMwtGG. I like to believe the woman seen sleeping with Bond while he is "enjoying death" is a topless pearl diver. And we see M write Bond's Obituary. Later we see the gravestone of Andrew Bond and Monique Delacroix.
- Fleming never mentioned any place called SkyFall, but he did tell us Bond was from Glencoe. I think it's Pearson who first described a specific  ancestral home in Glencoe.

- Craig gets to display more comedy chops than in his first two films combined.

- Despite not generally liking these overly artistic action scenes, the fight in front of advertising lights is rather impressive. The silhouettes invoke Binder. And the main background image the figures are set against is a giant digital jellyfish! Fleming would have approved of that jellyfish.


- The new Moneypenny is easily the best since the Lois Maxwell.
- "a close shave". What happens next in the shaving scene is left to our imaginations, but can be read either way, depending on what you choose to believe. Classic Moneypenny was indoobitably a repressed spinster living her fantasies vicariously through Bond. I believe this new Moneypenny has alrady slept with Bond before getting the deskjob where she can flirt with him outside his boss's office, a good new twist. But based on the specific evidence we are given, another viewer can choose to believe the exact opposite.
Still, that "close shave" scene was mighty sexy.
- If, like me, you're now wondering if classic Moneypenny was ever a field agent, there's an early Danger Man episode where Lois Maxwell teamed up with John Drake in the field. And if we assume Sandi Lewis was an alias, she could be the same character!


- Camera movement during the Casino scene, and precise choreography of Bond and Moneypenny's movements. This director is good with these tracking shots.

- Severine is  the femme fataliest character of all the Craig era films. She's got a very vampy look going on!
- Bérénice Marlohe would reappear in Twin Peaks the Return as Deputy Director Gordon Cole's date, one of two Craig-era Bondgirls who are also Gordon Cole girls.
(quick, who can name the second?)

- Sylva has got a freakin' amazing villain's headquarters! When was the last time we even saw a proper villain's headquarters?
- That island is fantastic, with all the abandoned buildings and cars, the server farm, and the toppled statue where Severine will meet her end.
- the story Sylva tells about the rats could easily be from Fleming. We know there were rats in Goldeneye!

- Sylva gets the most screentime of any Craig-era villain, and really chews the scenery.
And he makes a pass at our hero.


- new MI6 headquarters: it's Churchill's old bunkers from WWII, and they're still discovering tunnels dating back to the 1700s. Sylva has it mapped on his harddrive: those tunnels lead into the tube and the sewers and therefor all across London, from below. Setting up a chase scene of interest to any municipal cartographers in the audience.
- And there's some sort of weird irony with the threat emerging from those bunkers right into the well lit cabinet inquiry, while the minister is literally promising to drag MI6 out of the shadows.

- Bond's ancestral home therefor plays the part traditionally given to the villain's headquarters, complete with explosion. And even if he always hated that place, the Bond clan had a very cool ancestral home.



CONS
- gun barrel in the wrong place, once a-bloody-gain!
- That deep perspective shot of Bond walking up towards the peephole would actually have followed nicely from a proper gunbarrel, it's a similar composition.

- Despite sounding superficially like a classic Bond theme, Adele's theme song is not very substantial, and upon re-listening does not reveal all those interlocking hooks the Barry-era themes had.

- What happened to the years where CraigBond was at this career prime? There must be a lot of Unseen Missions that have been left to our imagination.

- Poor old Dench-M really hasn't succeeded at much during these Craig-era films, has she? Lost all the money to QUANTUM in the first film, found her own bodyguard is a QUANTUM mole in the second, and now this. The cabinet is not wrong to prefer a replacement.

- It's nice Tanner is such a major character, and he's not a jerk like the Tanner in FYEO. But this guy is mighty bland, and I certainly can't picture him being Craig-Bond's best friend.

- why does the psychiatrist say the word "skyfall" during word association? this is never explained


- "a waste of good Scotch" is just about the cruelest and least funny oneliner ever in a James Bond movie. Very low moment.
- Since Bond was able to take out all the bodyguards singlehanded, and knew all those helicopters were hovering just behind the buildings, why did he wait til after Severine was shot to act? Just so he could use that witty oneliner, right?

- The potential of Sylva's headquarters is completely squandered after two short scenes, we should have been exploring that unique space for the rest of the film.
- Helicopters appearing over the horizon on cue is such a copout, why wouldn't Bond just have them appear every time he gets in a spot like that? No need for the story to ever get interesting if capturing a Bond villain is that easy.
- and of course this nonsense of abruptly returning to London for the final act set precedent for the next film.

- Q plugs the villains laptop directly into the MI6 network. What kind of programmer in the IT department is he anyway?

- M's poetry reading: more arty-fartying of action sequences in the Craig era instead of letting action scenes speak for themselves.

- Bond doesn't get a ladyfriend in a clinch at the end, yet a-goddam-gain. It's like these young whippersnapper filmmakers don't even like proper James Bond movies!

Last edited by caractacus potts (10th Mar 2020 00:06)