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Re: Db5 Aston Martin replica project 2013

Perhap someone in the UK could find the time to hunt down Mr. Peter Walde...and his fiberglass boat building/repair business in Cornwall ? Maybe he still has the molds...or know the whereabouts of Mr. Hugh Rogers. I e-mailed Classics Monthy...no reply yet...maybe I need to buy a subscription first ajb007/lol

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Re: Db5 Aston Martin replica project 2013

PoorMansJB wrote:

For example, I don't see how EMC gets away with a Vanquish.

Probably because they haven't sold more than five of them.  Despite the claim that "160 of the 200 car run are left", all of the pictures on their site appear to be of the same prototype, with either a second one or some decent photoshop work done to make the single picture of the black car. 

They've completely priced themselves out of the game.  Which would you buy: a second-hand Vanquish for 60-90K and put gadgets on it for another 10-20, or a mustang kitcar with gadgets for $170K?

The P1800 is an interesting idea - my father has restored plenty of those.  At one point we had four of them so he's knowledgeable about the availability of parts and the like. 

He still has two P1800s so if I can get one of them next to the DB6 gadget car I've been working on, a re-skin of an 1800 into a DB5 is more feasible than you might expect.  The dashboard is completely wrong and would need to be scratchbuilt, but most of the interior fittings like seats and switchgear would make decent budget options for a faux DB5.  Apart from the grille and bumpers, most of the exterior parts like light fittings are bog standard available MG-eque parts.  The 1800s are really well-sorted vintage GT coupes and, while not nearly as exciting as an Aston Martin, would make for a fun vintage car toy.

--Brian

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Re: Db5 Aston Martin replica project 2013

Good news. I found mr rogers and his aston project
By acident really, made some friends tru work from the uk
And they helped me. So i mailed him some weeks ago
(Snail mail). No reply yet. But a goooood picture of the
Plug in his front yard. He he looks like the aston going
To sweden ajb007/wink .  (I hope).

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Re: Db5 Aston Martin replica project 2013

bondmobile wrote:
PoorMansJB wrote:

For example, I don't see how EMC gets away with a Vanquish.

Probably because they haven't sold more than five of them.  Despite the claim that "160 of the 200 car run are left", all of the pictures on their site appear to be of the same prototype, with either a second one or some decent photoshop work done to make the single picture of the black car. 

They've completely priced themselves out of the game.  Which would you buy: a second-hand Vanquish for 60-90K and put gadgets on it for another 10-20, or a mustang kitcar with gadgets for $170K?

My first reaction to that was that a Vanquish couldn't possibly be had for that little. But looking online, yup, that's the going rate.

I don't know that much about Astons: why is a used Vanquish half the cost of a used DBS?

Since EMC note that you can send them a righthand drive Mustang for conversion, wonder if you couldn't just send them a Vanquish and save a few bucks? (Ya, I know, no room in the engine compartment for all the gadgetry.)

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Re: Db5 Aston Martin replica project 2013

Well as i told you,i did find hugh. And what the heck...
I called the guy ajb007/smile  he answered. He can not sell any shells
Because aston will probably be on him. And he is still using
The plug.but ...IF. ... He will sell  bodies  in the future
I'm on the list ajb007/biggrin  ajb007/biggrin

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Re: Db5 Aston Martin replica project 2013

there is nothing Aston can do about producing a replica Aston Martin - unless it described itself as such and was badged up.

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Re: Db5 Aston Martin replica project 2013

Voituer wrote:

there is nothing Aston can do about producing a replica Aston Martin - unless it described itself as such and was badged up.

Wouldn't be so sure about that. Directly copying someone else's design for your own financial gain could lead anyone to deep and troubled water. Copyright laws are one thing and intellectual property laws are another.

Not using aston badges? Think you're in the clear? Think again;

http://m.leftlanenews.com/mercedes-benz … plica.html

As for previous comments on it being more cost effective to trick out a real vanquish.... Have you seen under the bonnet of a vanq? To say its cosy in there is an understatement! Add on static guns for car shows maybe, press the button and out pop the guns however... no chance. Nick Finlayson and Andy Smith didn't rip out the V12 for nothing ya know. The toys require masses of space and £10-20k ain't gonna cover the cost of that kinda modding.

Good look with the DB5 replicas though, but I'd rather build my own car from my own design, otherwise it's a bit like a fake watch ain't it?

'Force feeding AJB humour and banter since 2009'
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org

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Re: Db5 Aston Martin replica project 2013

minigeff wrote:
Voituer wrote:

there is nothing Aston can do about producing a replica Aston Martin - unless it described itself as such and was badged up.

Wouldn't be so sure about that. Directly copying someone else's design for your own financial gain could lead anyone to deep and troubled water. Copyright laws are one thing and intellectual property laws are another.

Not using aston badges? Think you're in the clear? Think again;

http://m.leftlanenews.com/mercedes-benz … plica.html

As for previous comments on it being more cost effective to trick out a real vanquish.... Have you seen under the bonnet of a vanq? To say its cosy in there is an understatement! Add on static guns for car shows maybe, press the button and out pop the guns however... no chance. Nick Finlayson and Andy Smith didn't rip out the V12 for nothing ya know. The toys require masses of space and £10-20k ain't gonna cover the cost of that kinda modding.

Good look with the DB5 replicas though, but I'd rather build my own car from my own design, otherwise it's a bit like a fake watch ain't it?

I never tgt I'd say this, but good advice Jeff

I once spoke to aston martin about this and the comment was, we're relaxed about almost all the aston design/shapes except the DB5 - which they felt the owners of originals would be of a mind to bring a class action suit to protect their investments. And before anyone laughs, ask yourself how many of said group occupy key roles at the Bar ( no not the shaken not stirred variety)

I often wonder why the gentleman in the article went so quiet after publication .....

As an aston owner, I understand this sentiment, especially in the current climate for classics.

It's such a shame as this is an exciting project, but I do worry about the legal aspect.

Cheers paul

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Re: Db5 Aston Martin replica project 2013

Brian,

My thoughts would be to "glue" the DB5 fiberglass panels on to a modified p1800 body structure and fill the cavities with two-part foam for rigidity.  I don't know if you watch any American auto shows on TV in the UK (perhaps on youtube ?) but there was a very interesting body kit in fiberglass used in the creation of a project car called the "Monster Miata"...done by the host of GEARS on the SPEED CHANNEL. (very redneck) A 3M epoxy/glue was used for bare metal to fiberglass bonding.

If Mr. Rogers does not feel comfortable selling completed body shells...perhap sending out the molds to a good fiberglass boat builder...his friend (?) and buying individual body parts from him...or leasing the molds from him and sending them out yourself...that would get him off the hook ? There are way around this... ajb007/shifty Who needs to know of any "personal" monitary transactions anyway. I guess there would need some level of trust established.

I did a quick Google search using, "Can a classic car design be copyrighted ?" it came up with an interesting piece from the Guardian..."An end to faking it: could a new law damage the world of design?"  I don't know the if this Bill has passed. But it really seems over-the-top. Sure hope my Invicta submariner style "faux" Rolex doesn't get snatched at the UK  customs  ajb007/lol

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Re: Db5 Aston Martin replica project 2013

If you could be so kind  ajb007/heart  to post his address, email, and/or phone number... perhaps if copies of his creations were not seen driving around in the moors of Scotland...AM would be happier. The wilderness of rural Ontario I guess would be ok for me. ajb007/biggrin

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Re: Db5 Aston Martin replica project 2013

Having thought about this over the years, I wondered why AM didn't sell out and reboot the DB5/6 design...not an exact copy, but kind of like the retro theme that has been popular with most major car companies for the past 5-10 years. eg "new" VW Bug, current retro to 67-69ish Ford Mustang, GM Camaro...very 1969ish, and that's just off the top of my head. 

How many 40-60 year old baby boomers who had the Corgi DB5 would lust after a NEW DB5 !!!  I'll take mine in silver birch please. ajb007/smile  It would be a license to print money...IMO. Sheesh...farm out the body to Jaguar, inline 6 from BMW, this would not be rocket science. I would put the button for the sunroof under a flip-up on the shifter knob  ajb007/biggrin

When a barnfind DB5 is sold for 200,000 to 300,000 quid (sic?)  seems like AM  needs to do a little marketing research.

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Re: Db5 Aston Martin replica project 2013

I think we have to Wait and see what Mr. Rogers
Decide to do when his aston is finished.
He told me it's ok to make a replica for
Personal use but if your doing it for
Comersial (spelling ajb007/rolleyes use it's another
Game and aston will probably have something
To say about that.
It happend not long ago With a Mercedes
Replica build.

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Re: Db5 Aston Martin replica project 2013

As a DB5 owner myself, I remember the magazine replica been discussed on the AM Owners Club forum at the time. As I recall,
Aston Martin came down on the guy like a ton of bricks and that was the end of it. So, I'm sure this is the reason that no replicas have been done on a, commercial basis, at least.
Whoever, is planning to build a replica DB5 would be wise to check the legalities before spending any money on what might be a doomed venture.

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Re: Db5 Aston Martin replica project 2013

Continuing with the "possible" legal issues...a combination of the DB5 and DB6 design may be a creative way to work around any so called legal issues. I am still not convinced there is any on a fifty year old design. I am not particularly fond of the rear end of the DB5 and actually think the DB6 is somewhat better. However...I dislike the side view of the DB5 above the doorline and rear pop-out glass venting...DB5 much better IMO.

Here is an interesting legal view on design patents...specific sections taken from WiseGeeks:

"Patents

A patent is a form of legal protection for an invention. They afford inventors with property rights that are intended to prevent anyone else from making, using, or selling the patented invention. There are three types of patents: utility, plant, and design.

•Design patents are reserved for creators of new ornamental designs for functional items. This could include the design of a piece of furniture or a water bottle. (my italics)


Patent protection lasts for a limited amount of time, usually 20 years from the date of the application, and is only effective in the country in which it was filed. The application must include a detailed description of how the invention works. Since a patent is considered "property," it may be bought, sold, mortgaged, or licensed by the owner. " (my bold)

I guess the question is...does AM have legal protection over the DB5 body design in 2013 ?  And if they do...where do they have legal protection ? I note the recent selling of the AM DB5 1/8 scale diecast model in the UK as a monthy subscription...did AM license this...or EON productions...or both ?  Hmmm.... ajb007/rolleyes

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Re: Db5 Aston Martin replica project 2013

corrie wrote:

As a DB5 owner myself, I remember the magazine replica been discussed on the AM Owners Club forum at the time. As I recall,
Aston Martin came down on the guy like a ton of bricks and that was the end of it. So, I'm sure this is the reason that no replicas have been done on a, commercial basis, at least.
Whoever, is planning to build a replica DB5 would be wise to check the legalities before spending any money on what might be a doomed venture.

Spot on corrie.. And welcome to the forum.

This was what I implied in my post above.

I can see it wasn't what others wanted to read, but as minijeff was trying to help, I Tgt it needed saying/repeating.

Fact is, the simple answer is to engage a very good patent lawyer now. Better that (and waste a few hundred pounds ) than get embroiled in a long drawn out legal battle that ties up thousands (even if you get it back in the end-far from certain).

It may be fun to build toy astons in the garage, and they may even be safe to drive on the road.

But it's never smart nor safe to build a legal case in your kitchen using materials obtained from google search and fan sites.  ajb007/rolleyes

Cheers

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Re: Db5 Aston Martin replica project 2013

minigeff wrote:

As for previous comments on it being more cost effective to trick out a real vanquish.... Have you seen under the bonnet of a vanq? To say its cosy in there is an understatement! Add on static guns for car shows maybe, press the button and out pop the guns however... no chance. Nick Finlayson and Andy Smith didn't rip out the V12 for nothing ya know. The toys require masses of space and £10-20k ain't gonna cover the cost of that kinda modding.

Good look with the DB5 replicas though, but I'd rather build my own car from my own design, otherwise it's a bit like a fake watch ain't it?

On the Vanquish, I was thinking you would have to pull out the V12, sell it, and replace it with a crate V8 like the film cars to make gadgets work.   In this buyer's market that's still a decent estimate.

His Royal Bickeringness has a good point about "fake watches" and such that ties in to where this conversation seems to be going.  A single car for your own use so that you don't need to cut into a priceless vintage DB5 to make the ultimate "Goldfinger" conversion is one thing.  Selling copies of someone else's product is another.

Apart from the murky legal matter, I think of it as this - you want to go to all of this effort because you love the Aston design and the Aston brand, so what's the point of trying to steal their copyright and make a buck off their products?  Do you want to spend the rest of your life fighting the better trained and better paid legal team representing the design you saw as so compelling?

ke02eww wrote:

But it's never smart nor safe to build a legal case in your kitchen using materials obtained from google search and fan sites.

Just ask the 1989 Batmobile builders.  They do it correctly; the smart builders let Warner Brothers know about their single use hobby projects in a polite and professional manner, and agree to WB's draconian terms about what can and cannot be done with the finished car.  Most of the successful Batmobile builds are used exclusively for charity events with WB's knowledge.

The not-so-smart builders have their molds seized/destroyed (Jay Ohrberg) and spend their life in litigation(http://www.geekexchange.com/wb-dc-comic … -42339.html).

--Brian

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Re: Db5 Aston Martin replica project 2013

It's important to understand the difference between patent and trademark. It seems unlikely that Aston have a patent on the DB5 (or any other marque) design; but they have almost certainly trademarked their brand. It was noted earlier that Porsche allowed and continues to allow for replica Speedsters; replicating the Speedster goes back decades, starting at a time when Porsche may not have been positioned to protect the design and, even if they could have exercised trademark protection may not have recognized the need to do so: building replicas was then an obscure, literally home-garage-based activity, not the industry it is today.

If Bond's DB5 is "the most famous car in the world," surely the second most famous is the '66 Batmobile designed by George Barris. I'm sure there are members here who might challenge this, but the Batmobile is likely the more distinctive vehicle and replicating one a clearer trademark violation, the very reason that Barris has historically sued people for even calling their car a Batmobile (whether it really resembled one or not) and caused owners to destroy their replicas (granted, though, most often when that replica was being used for monetary gain through exhibition, etc.). If someone has something other than a "bat car" and it looks like a '66, they've paid a license fee to Barris.

It's been asked what Aston could come after someone for and that's rather simple: The Grille. Look at every iteration of every marque -- Vanquish, Vantage, DB, whatever -- and what have you got: The Grille. There have been a slew of ad campaigns for Aston, Bond, and other products where all that's shown is The Grille and we instantly understand everything about that product. You don't think Aston wouldn't protect that? Think they don't have a trademark on it? Wanna spend the time and money in court to find out?

P.S. The Eaglemoss DB5 1/8 kit is trademarked by both EON and Aston.

[NOTE: Looks like Brian and I were simultaneously composing similar posts.]

Last edited by PoorMansJB (29th Mar 2013 17:46)

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Re: Db5 Aston Martin replica project 2013

Brian and Alan have more eloquently made clear what I was trying to convey.

They even more bluntly hammer home the more subtle points;

1) if you're genuinely a fan why not approach the company early on and test the waters.
Offer to pay licence fees per annum, unlikely to he more than a couple of hundred pounds.
Sign in blood that you do not intend to make a single penny out of this venture, and if you do then it will either goto Aston or better to a charity of ther choice.
2) understand that several key aspects of the design are indeed trademarked and therefore guaranteed to incur the very best of legal attrition that these global companies can implement.

As a fan and a collector, I'm genuinely sad that this project is certain to end up in the very same location as the moulds that Brian and Alan discuss, and worse still, the collaborators doomed to spend hours on google-legal-help or $-thousands on the more professional variety.

But rest assured, that is a certainty.

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Re: Db5 Aston Martin replica project 2013

I think this is being over thought

unless you are producing for profit or resale then a one off near as damit copy would be no issue as long as it did not used copyrights or trade marks.

Actually contacting a company to test the water could actually make things far more difficult should they refuse as then a stronger decision to go ahead has to be made if permission was refused.

Its a whole muddy field but theoretically one original part from a car that is no longer around could be included in a copy and the whole still deemed as original - it has been done many times in the classic car world. Bugatti from one front axle etc. etc.

I would say that its a go for anyone to make and 99.99% unlikely there will be any comeback.

BTW don't quote this in court as I'm out that day ajb007/wink

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Re: Db5 Aston Martin replica project 2013

Voituer wrote:

BTW don't quote this in court as I'm out that day ajb007/wink


ajb007/lol

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Re: Db5 Aston Martin replica project 2013

Nick might have a fair point: A bit unrelated but in the US, you can tear down all but one wall of a house and still claim the project as a remodel. If you had an Aston chassis, engine, etc. and replica body and interior, how much in violation would you be?

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Re: Db5 Aston Martin replica project 2013

Laws seem to vary on this topic from country to country.  When I registered the Speedster... the Ontario Ministry of Transportation only required the VIN (Vehicle Indentification Number) plate from the donor car...this being of course a VW bug and a safety certificate (brakes, lights, exhaust system, seat belts, etc.)  The only major parts of the VW I used was the engine and transaxle.

I know that I can not import a "branded" US car to Canada...meaning "not fit to rebuild" and put it on the road with that VIN number...but I can buy it for parts...as use 99 % of those parts in another or identical car.

I guess the key is that if Mr. Rogers has had some warning from AM's legal department, I can hardly fault him from not developing his hobby, and passion into a business. Seems a pity...he made such fine start... ajb007/frown

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Re: Db5 Aston Martin replica project 2013

http://s14.postimg.cc/rj7etghm5/image.jpg
This is what i found on google maps ajb007/smile
Looking at the adress.

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Re: Db5 Aston Martin replica project 2013

Hugh told me that there was a db5 front on
The Wall at aston workshop , he askes to
Take molds from it for a replica project
And they told him they would crush it before
Support a project lite that.

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Re: Db5 Aston Martin replica project 2013

That sure looks like the plug from the magazine article

Zundapp wrote:

http://s14.postimg.cc/rj7etghm5/image.jpg
This is what i found on google maps ajb007/smile
Looking at the adress.