251

Re: Anyone else find Skyfall a bit lame?

Napoleon Plural wrote:

http://1pumplane.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/lame-horse-3.jpg

A horse, named Skyfall. So answer to OP, yes.

Now, that's a good one, Nap!  ajb007/lol Lame, indeed. Take that horse back to the stables and give it a kiss!

Writer/Director @ The Bondologist Blog (TBB)
On Twitter: @Dragonpol 
'Like' TBB on FB: TBB Update Page
"The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).

252

Re: Anyone else find Skyfall a bit lame?

SILHOUETTE MAN wrote:

unlike probably the majority of fans on here and elsewhere, I avoided all discussion of the film and its spoilers, so it all felt fresh and great to me.

Same here; and I'm going to do the same for the next one, once speculation stops and pre-production begins. I learned that lesson on earlier Bonds...

253

Re: Anyone else find Skyfall a bit lame?

A good horse like that, you don't eat all at once.  ajb007/lol

“I didn’t lose a friend, I just realised I never had one.”

254

Re: Anyone else find Skyfall a bit lame?

Thunderpussy wrote:

A good horse like that, you don't eat all at once.  ajb007/lol

I suspect that we already have, albeit unknowingly!  ajb007/lol

Writer/Director @ The Bondologist Blog (TBB)
On Twitter: @Dragonpol 
'Like' TBB on FB: TBB Update Page
"The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).

255

Re: Anyone else find Skyfall a bit lame?

I understand where many are coming from comparing Skyfall to the other films in the series and to Bond's literary roots.  However - this is just my personal take - there were a few occasions when I went with people to Bond films and they were either totally ignorant of Fleming and his novels or they had seen some of the films but were not fans and viewed them as just as escapist action films with JB as the hero.  During the films while they laughed at many of the over the top action scenes or at some of the weak quips thrown out I would sit in my seat and cringe a bit at their reactions.  I really hated feeling that.  I would hate it even more when I was cringing at many of those types of scenes myself.  Craig's films are the first ones that I attended where I didn't do that in any part of the film (outside the films up to YOLT).  They were the first ones where those friends of mine
also did not react in that way.  Skyfall, thought not being a Fleming story, was one of those where I knew that - after I left the movie, I did not engage in conversations regarding the "silliness" of certain scenes or the movie as a whole.  My non Fleming/Bond friends praised Craig and the films - particularly Skyfall, for raising the quality of the characters and the story so they actually cared about what was going on in the film as opposed to being like popcorn eating spectators at a circus.

256

Re: Anyone else find Skyfall a bit lame?

For what it's worth, I had the same experience with a number of my friends who are not necessarily Bond fans per se. They all enjoyed Skyfall as a film unrelated to how it fit in with the Bond novels or with other Bond movies.

CmdrAtticus wrote:

I understand where many are coming from comparing Skyfall to the other films in the series and to Bond's literary roots.  However - this is just my personal take - there were a few occasions when I went with people to Bond films and they were either totally ignorant of Fleming and his novels or they had seen some of the films but were not fans and viewed them as just as escapist action films with JB as the hero.  During the films while they laughed at many of the over the top action scenes or at some of the weak quips thrown out I would sit in my seat and cringe a bit at their reactions.  I really hated feeling that.  I would hate it even more when I was cringing at many of those types of scenes myself.  Craig's films are the first ones that I attended where I didn't do that in any part of the film (outside the films up to YOLT).  They were the first ones where those friends of mine
also did not react in that way.  Skyfall, thought not being a Fleming story, was one of those where I knew that - after I left the movie, I did not engage in conversations regarding the "silliness" of certain scenes or the movie as a whole.  My non Fleming/Bond friends praised Craig and the films - particularly Skyfall, for raising the quality of the characters and the story so they actually cared about what was going on in the film as opposed to being like popcorn eating spectators at a circus.

"Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."

257

Re: Anyone else find Skyfall a bit lame?

It irks me that they rebooted the films & kept Dench to kill her off. She should have joined Brosnan.  ajb007/rolleyes

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.QOS 4.DN 5.GF/GE 6.SP 7.FRWL 8.TB/TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT

258

Re: Anyone else find Skyfall a bit lame?

Ding Dong the Dench is Dead!   ajb007/lol

"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

Roger Moore 1927-2017

259

Re: Anyone else find Skyfall a bit lame?

Napoleon Plural wrote :

Ding Dong the Dench is Dead!   ajb007/lol

ajb007/lol   ajb007/lol   ajb007/lol   Topical Humor.   ajb007/martini

chrisisall wrote :

It irks me that they rebooted the films & kept Dench to kill her off. She should have joined Brosnan.

Agreed, They should of made a clean Break, and ( Much as I loved her as M  ajb007/martini  ) she should've
left with Brosnan.

“I didn’t lose a friend, I just realised I never had one.”

260

Re: Anyone else find Skyfall a bit lame?

I think that the reason the producers stayed with Dame Judi Dench was because she was the only familiar face left from the Brosnan era now that Q, Moneypenny and the old Tanner were all gone. Perhaps they were scared of a wholly new team - something not actually seen in a Bond film until trhe likes of Skyfall.

Writer/Director @ The Bondologist Blog (TBB)
On Twitter: @Dragonpol 
'Like' TBB on FB: TBB Update Page
"The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).

261

Re: Anyone else find Skyfall a bit lame?

Supported here. Dench SHOULD have been asked to leave with Brosnan.

Must have been a bizarre meeting at EON planning CR. "Right, let's get really radical and reboot. We want a new, rough and tumble, credible Bond, sensitive, with subtle acting skills. Daniel Craig ticks all those boxes. But we need to chuck in a silver DB5 somewhere for the "fans" and we HAVE to keep Judy Dench...."

ajb007/insane

262

Re: Anyone else find Skyfall a bit lame?

David Schofield wrote:

Supported here. Dench SHOULD have been asked to leave with Brosnan.

Must have been a bizarre meeting at EON planning CR. "Right, let's get really radical and reboot. We want a new, rough and tumble, credible Bond, sensitive, with subtle acting skills. Daniel Craig ticks all those boxes. But we need to chuck in a silver DB5 somewhere for the "fans" and we HAVE to keep Judy Dench...."

ajb007/insane

But then the question becomes, "Who would you have chosen to replace her as M?"  ajb007/crap

Writer/Director @ The Bondologist Blog (TBB)
On Twitter: @Dragonpol 
'Like' TBB on FB: TBB Update Page
"The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).

263

Re: Anyone else find Skyfall a bit lame?

SILHOUETTE MAN wrote:
David Schofield wrote:

Supported here. Dench SHOULD have been asked to leave with Brosnan.

Must have been a bizarre meeting at EON planning CR. "Right, let's get really radical and reboot. We want a new, rough and tumble, credible Bond, sensitive, with subtle acting skills. Daniel Craig ticks all those boxes. But we need to chuck in a silver DB5 somewhere for the "fans" and we HAVE to keep Judy Dench...."

ajb007/insane

But then the question becomes, "Who would you have chosen to replace her as M?"  ajb007/crap

The glib answer is, of course, Ralph Fiennes.  ajb007/wink

But anyone who could have played a crusty retired Admiral, though obviously the long-run dynamic would have been the exact opposite of Dench-M. Albert Finney would have worked. Gambon? Any talented, Brit character actor who could have bullied Craig.

I do NOT, for one minute, buy into the bollocks that Dench's "star power" was essential to CR. CR was not remotely faultless, indeed was quite weak in places. But what the whole thing had that made it work was Daniel Craig, Dench merely A.N. Other cast member.

264

Re: Anyone else find Skyfall a bit lame?

David Schofield wrote:
SILHOUETTE MAN wrote:
David Schofield wrote:

Supported here. Dench SHOULD have been asked to leave with Brosnan.

Must have been a bizarre meeting at EON planning CR. "Right, let's get really radical and reboot. We want a new, rough and tumble, credible Bond, sensitive, with subtle acting skills. Daniel Craig ticks all those boxes. But we need to chuck in a silver DB5 somewhere for the "fans" and we HAVE to keep Judy Dench...."

ajb007/insane

But then the question becomes, "Who would you have chosen to replace her as M?"  ajb007/crap

The glib answer is, of course, Ralph Fiennes.  ajb007/wink

But anyone who could have played a crusty retired Admiral, though obviously the long-run dynamic would have been the exact opposite of Dench-M. Albert Finney would have worked. Gambon? Any talented, Brit character actor who could have bullied Craig.

I do NOT, for one minute, buy into the bollocks that Dench's "star power" was essential to CR. CR was not remotely faultless, indeed was quite weak in places. But what the whole thing had that made it work was Daniel Craig, Dench merely A.N. Other cast member.

I had a feeling you'd answer with Fiennes, David.  ajb007/lol

Perhaps you are right on Dench - it did tend to muck up the continuity a bit with her from the Brosnan era and no-one else (actor-wise, at least). Probably especially so in Skyfall.

Writer/Director @ The Bondologist Blog (TBB)
On Twitter: @Dragonpol 
'Like' TBB on FB: TBB Update Page
"The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).

265

Re: Anyone else find Skyfall a bit lame?

SILHOUETTE MAN wrote:
David Schofield wrote:
SILHOUETTE MAN wrote:

But then the question becomes, "Who would you have chosen to replace her as M?"  ajb007/crap

The glib answer is, of course, Ralph Fiennes.  ajb007/wink

But anyone who could have played a crusty retired Admiral, though obviously the long-run dynamic would have been the exact opposite of Dench-M. Albert Finney would have worked. Gambon? Any talented, Brit character actor who could have bullied Craig.

I do NOT, for one minute, buy into the bollocks that Dench's "star power" was essential to CR. CR was not remotely faultless, indeed was quite weak in places. But what the whole thing had that made it work was Daniel Craig, Dench merely A.N. Other cast member.

I had a feeling you'd answer with Fiennes, David.  ajb007/lol

Perhaps you are right on Dench - it did tend to muck up the continuity a bit with her from the Brosnan era and no-one else (actor-wise, at least). Probably especially so in Skyfall.

Well, if someone can prove to me why it was essential Dench was carrried over from the Brosnan era - particularly when it was a reboot and she was hardly a superstar - then I might reconsider. Just as I will never see the unnecesary inclusion of the DB5 as anything other than "dumb" filmaking.

Continuity has never been much of an issue with me regarding the Bond series so the fact that Craig has gone from an arrogant "young" newby to a knackered veteran in three films, while ludicrous, is an entirely different issue; shotgun filmaking by the producers, perhaps? ajb007/amazed

266

Re: Anyone else find Skyfall a bit lame?

Yes, it's all very confusing from a continuity point of view - though probably best not to venture there!

On Craig being knackered, well it has been FOUR YEARS between QoS and SF, perhaps they're trying to reflect the Flemingesque reality that Bond has aged in the interim and has only a few years left a la Fleming's original double-O section in the Moonraker novel. Craig is alreadyt 45 - the statutory vage for retirement from the double-O section, according to Fleming. Just don't mention that to Roger Moore who went on until he was almost 57ajb007/embarrassed

Writer/Director @ The Bondologist Blog (TBB)
On Twitter: @Dragonpol 
'Like' TBB on FB: TBB Update Page
"The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).

267

Re: Anyone else find Skyfall a bit lame?

SILHOUETTE MAN wrote:

Yes, it's all very confusing from a continuity point of view - though probably best not to venture there!

On Craig being knackered, well it has been FOUR YEARS between QoS and SF, perhaps they're trying to reflect the Flemingesque reality that Bond has aged in the interim and has only a few years left a la Fleming's original double-O section in the Moonraker novel. Craig is alreadyt 45 - the statutory vage for retirement from the double-O section, according to Fleming. Just don't mention that to Roger Moore who went on until he was almost 57ajb007/embarrassed

Fleming's Bond, though, had had his adventures in any four year period DOCUMENTED; we know why he burned out, particularly with the events of OHMSS-YOLT.

Craig has gone from looking absolutely fabulous at the end of QOS, with emotional lose-ends tied up, to taking the opportunity having fallen of a bridge to go AWOL. Why? What has happened in the period since QOS to make him need to do that?

I feel that in not showing the onset of the apparent weariness of SKYFALL, they have missed the necessary character developement that another film - at least - could have shown BEFORE the events of SF. And in whipping Craig straight to the worn out veteran stage so quick, where to EON go next? Is Craig-Bond "reborn" with his meeting with M(allory)? Cos he looks just as knackered to me...

As I said, "shotgun" filmmaking. "Hey, Sam, there are ideas in YOLT and TMWTGG that haven't been used!" "Wow, Dan. You're right! Let's expore them! Obviously as this is big buget film, we've no reason to give any background or context! The multi-plex crowd just won't notice!"

268

Re: Anyone else find Skyfall a bit lame?

David Schofield wrote:
SILHOUETTE MAN wrote:

Yes, it's all very confusing from a continuity point of view - though probably best not to venture there!

On Craig being knackered, well it has been FOUR YEARS between QoS and SF, perhaps they're trying to reflect the Flemingesque reality that Bond has aged in the interim and has only a few years left a la Fleming's original double-O section in the Moonraker novel. Craig is alreadyt 45 - the statutory vage for retirement from the double-O section, according to Fleming. Just don't mention that to Roger Moore who went on until he was almost 57ajb007/embarrassed

Fleming's Bond, though, had had his adventures in any four year period DOCUMENTED; we know why he burned out, particularly with the events of OHMSS-YOLT.

Craig has gone from looking absolutely fabulous at the end of QOS, with emotional lose-ends tied up, to taking the opportunity having fallen of a bridge to go AWOL. Why? What has happened in the period since QOS to make him need to do that?

I feel that in not showing the onset of the apparent weariness of SKYFALL, they have missed the necessary character developement that another film - at least - could have shown BEFORE the events of SF. And in whipping Craig straight to the worn out veteran stage so quick, where to EON go next? Is Craig-Bond "reborn" with his meeting with M(allory)? Cos he looks just as knackered to me...

As I said, "shotgun" filmmaking. "Hey, Sam, there are ideas in YOLT and TMWTGG that haven't been used!" "Wow, Dan. You're right! Let's expore them! Obviously as this is big buget film, we've no reason to give any background or context! The multi-plex crowd just won't notice!"

Yes, good points well made there, David. Perhaps Skyfall did indeed come a film too soon?

Writer/Director @ The Bondologist Blog (TBB)
On Twitter: @Dragonpol 
'Like' TBB on FB: TBB Update Page
"The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).

269

Re: Anyone else find Skyfall a bit lame?

Far from remaking LALD, with Craig looking all Burnt out. Mabey
they should remake AVTAK.   ajb007/lol

David Schofield wrote :

I feel that in not showing the onset of the apparent weariness of SKYFALL, they have missed the necessary character developement that another film - at least - could have shown BEFORE the events of SF. And in whipping Craig straight to the worn out veteran stage so quick, where to EON go next? Is Craig-Bond "reborn" with his meeting with M(allory)? Cos he looks just as knackered to me...

“I didn’t lose a friend, I just realised I never had one.”

270

Re: Anyone else find Skyfall a bit lame?

Thunderpussy wrote:

Far from remaking LALD, with Craig looking all Burnt out. Mabey
they should remake AVTAK.   ajb007/lol

David Schofield wrote :

I feel that in not showing the onset of the apparent weariness of SKYFALL, they have missed the necessary character developement that another film - at least - could have shown BEFORE the events of SF. And in whipping Craig straight to the worn out veteran stage so quick, where to EON go next? Is Craig-Bond "reborn" with his meeting with M(allory)? Cos he looks just as knackered to me...

Sadly, that's almost the corner EON has painted themselves into with the indulgence given to Craig and Mendes: we are almost now where we were with AVTAK and DAD.

What even seems to be needed is a brand new - fresher - face striding into Fiennes office in the next one. "Ah, there you are, 007."

271

Re: Anyone else find Skyfall a bit lame?

David Schofield wrote:

What even seems to be needed is a brand new - fresher - face striding into Fiennes office in the next one. "Ah, there you are, 007."

I disagree - I still want to see Craig do at least one more turn as Bond. I'm especially anxious to see how he does in a more traditional Bond scenario , i.e. the supporting players are all in place (M,Q and Moneypenny), and he's taking on a mission without so much of a personal angle to it.

"Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."

272

Re: Anyone else find Skyfall a bit lame?

Blackleiter wrote:
David Schofield wrote:

What even seems to be needed is a brand new - fresher - face striding into Fiennes office in the next one. "Ah, there you are, 007."

I disagree - I still want to see Craig do at least one more turn as Bond. I'm especially anxious to see how he does in a more traditional Bond scenario , i.e. the supporting players are all in place (M,Q and Moneypenny), and he's taking on a mission without so much of a personal angle to it.

I WANT to see DC do another, too - but I think the starting-point is a disadvantage: he's been burned out and looks buggered, old, STILL

And haven't we been promised a film post QOS "without so much of a personal angle to it" before, and what did we get? ajb007/wink

273

Re: Anyone else find Skyfall a bit lame?

Call me soft, but I'm willing to give EON another chance to deliver on the less personal Bond movie. And I don't think Craig looks that "buggered" and old in Skyfall, so if they can get the next movie done in the next couple of years I think he'll be fine.

David Schofield wrote:
Blackleiter wrote:
David Schofield wrote:

What even seems to be needed is a brand new - fresher - face striding into Fiennes office in the next one. "Ah, there you are, 007."

I disagree - I still want to see Craig do at least one more turn as Bond. I'm especially anxious to see how he does in a more traditional Bond scenario , i.e. the supporting players are all in place (M,Q and Moneypenny), and he's taking on a mission without so much of a personal angle to it.

I WANT to see DC do another, too - but I think the starting-point is a disadvantage: he's been burned out and looks buggered, old, STILL

And haven't we been promised a film post QOS "without so much of a personal angle to it" before, and what did we get? ajb007/wink

"Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."

274

Re: Anyone else find Skyfall a bit lame?

Blackleiter wrote:

Call me soft, but I'm willing to give EON another chance to deliver on the less personal Bond movie. And I don't think Craig looks that "buggered" and old in Skyfall, so if they can get the next movie done in the next couple of years I think he'll be fine.

David Schofield wrote:
Blackleiter wrote:

I disagree - I still want to see Craig do at least one more turn as Bond. I'm especially anxious to see how he does in a more traditional Bond scenario , i.e. the supporting players are all in place (M,Q and Moneypenny), and he's taking on a mission without so much of a personal angle to it.

I WANT to see DC do another, too - but I think the starting-point is a disadvantage: he's been burned out and looks buggered, old, STILL

And haven't we been promised a film post QOS "without so much of a personal angle to it" before, and what did we get? ajb007/wink

Well, Craig'll certainly keep fit enough, put a tad of weight on him and grow out his hair and he should be able to offset Roger Mooretis for one more personally.

As to EON (and DC) giving up on the emo stuff... Well, we'll have to see. ajb007/wink

275

Re: Anyone else find Skyfall a bit lame?

I await with baited breath!  ajb007/lol

David Schofield wrote:
Blackleiter wrote:

Call me soft, but I'm willing to give EON another chance to deliver on the less personal Bond movie. And I don't think Craig looks that "buggered" and old in Skyfall, so if they can get the next movie done in the next couple of years I think he'll be fine.

David Schofield wrote:

I WANT to see DC do another, too - but I think the starting-point is a disadvantage: he's been burned out and looks buggered, old, STILL

And haven't we been promised a film post QOS "without so much of a personal angle to it" before, and what did we get? ajb007/wink

Well, Craig'll certainly keep fit enough, put a tad of weight on him and grow out his hair and he should be able to offset Roger Mooretis for one more personally.

As to EON (and DC) giving up on the emo stuff... Well, we'll have to see. ajb007/wink

"Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."