51

Re: Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

Pros:

•    Moore’s performance is excellent and his style is ideally suited to the film (it’s hard to imagine any of the other Bonds pulling it off as well)
•    The plot is intriguing, clever and refreshingly small-scale
•    Kananga is a very different villain from the usual, being gregarious, sociable and hot-tempered
•    Solitaire shouldn’t really work as a character but does
•    Tee Hee makes for a genuinely likeable, as well as genuinely dangerous, henchman
•    The blaxploitation elements are surprisingly well executed
•    There is a lot of effective black humour (such as the assassin answering “yours” when asked “whose funeral is it?”)
•    The lack of a briefing from Q makes a refreshing change (I like Desmond Llewelyn, but the M and Q office scenes were often formulaic and played for cheap laughs)
•    The music (the first non-John Barry score) is superb, as is Paul McCartney’s title song
•    There’s real tension and urgency in the film, unlike those that bookended it
•    David Hedison is the first really credible Felix Leiter since Jack Lord
•    Geoffrey Holder is perfectly cast as Baron Samedi
•    The film is steeped in atmosphere – no other Bond film feels like it
•    The voodoo rituals are genuinely spooky
•    The crocodile farm scenes are fantastic

Cons

•    Kananga’s ridiculous death scene
•    The brief appearance of a high-tech lair at the end — it’s not needed and appears to be thrown in merely as an identifying Bondian element
•    The deus ex machina ending — Bond’s watch is suddenly capable of a trick we haven’t seen before
•    Kananga’s interrogation of Bond makes no sense — he threatens to have Tee Hee remove a finger if Solitaire gets a question wrong, she does and he has Tee Hee release Bond before knocking him unconscious
•    Rosie Carver is an idiot
•    The film doesn’t seem to know what it thinks of Baron Samedi — is he a genuinely supernatural figure or a man in a costume intended to scare the natives?

52

Re: Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

Just some points.

The plot is refreshingly small-scale

Interesting point.  Most of the plot seem to be about destroying the world, which are less believable.  But this one is believable because its feasible.

•    Kananga is a very different villain from the usual, being gregarious, sociable and hot-tempered

Agree.  Aside from the super-iconic "talking villain syndrome", he's one of the smartest villains in the series.

Solitaire shouldn’t really work as a character but does

How though?  Her value is tied to her virginity and her only purpose after that is to be a one-night stand for Bond.  But fans glaze over that because she's sexy.

The lack of a briefing from Q makes a refreshing change

Agree.  Excellent actor but not every film needs to have him.

David Hedison is the first really credible Felix Leiter since Jack Lord

Yes, he's one of the better Leiters, along with the CR/QOS Leiter.

Geoffrey Holder is perfectly cast as Baron Samedi

Heeehehahahahahahahah!!

The voodoo rituals are genuinely spooky

This is going to be a super-controversial point, but if the voodoo rituals were conducted by white people, they would be seen as a silly frat-boy comedy thing - not spooky.  I suspect the spookiness factor comes from cultural conditioning that associates black with tribal.

Kananga’s interrogation of Bond makes no sense — he threatens to have Tee Hee remove a finger if Solitaire gets a question wrong, she does and he has Tee Hee release Bond before knocking him unconscious

Was purely an interrogation technique, as torture.  Akin, to fake executions.  Aka, giving the person a scary near-death experience by pretending to guillotine them.  Then, taking them out and killing them for real.  Apart from added suffering, this technique also baits the victim into trying to escape.  If they escape the fake execution, they'll just be in the real one.

For LALD's sake, maybe they just wanted a cleaner kill.

53

Re: Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

Absolutely_Cart wrote:

The voodoo rituals are genuinely spooky

This is going to be a super-controversial point, but if the voodoo rituals were conducted by white people, they would be seen as a silly frat-boy comedy thing - not spooky.  I suspect the spookiness factor comes from cultural conditioning that associates black with tribal.

Not controversial but I don't agree. The witchcraft rituals in films like The Devil Rides Out are very spooky - and they're conducted by Blofeld himself, Charles Gray. If filmed properly they would be spooky, whoever conducts the rituals - and if poorly filmed they would look silly by the same measure.

"How was your lamb?" "Skewered. One sympathises."

54

Re: Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

In the actual LALD Novel, Mr Big's Followers think that he is the Baron Samedi himself.

1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger

55

Re: Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

I love this movie. My dad had it on VHS and I used to keep getting him to put it on for me. I've always found that this is a favourite amongst casual fans. A lot of people I have chatted Bond with down the years cite this as a favourite. The box office tells a story. LALD is the 4th highest grossing movie in the series (adjusted for inflation). Only bettered by Skyfall, Goldfinger and Thunderball. Considering GF and Thunderball were at the height of the spy-mania. LALD proves that Moore saved the franchise and enabled it to endure to this day. Ps Connery is still the best. But Moore close second

56

Re: Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

LALD sometimes sticks to the formula a bit much, but it has a lot going for it.  As for the race thing, I realize there's some ignorance, but also some beauty in how it portrays things.  There's no movie in the Bond series quite like it.

Last edited by Absolutely_Cart (19th Jun 2015 02:01)

57

Re: Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

Before tonight not seen for a long time probably 10 years or so.

Pros:
Title Song
Titles
Plane chase
Crocodile farm
Boat chase
Train fight
Baron Samedi at the end on the train
Kananga - Baron Samedi - Tee Hee - JW Pepper - Felix Leiter - Miss Caruso

Cons:
No Bond in PTS
No Q
Music - a weak score
Car chase - mimics the same moves as in DAF which was pretty uninspiring in itself
Kananga's death - ridiculous for such a good villain
Obvious cheap looking sets

Observations:
Bond is now lighter in style and smokes cigars

Conclusion:
This is an improvement on DAF - Roger Moore equips himself quite nicely as a new style lighter Bond and there is no silliness of later movies although his schoolboy delivery of his puns is excruciating. I don't find the film racist - so the villains are black - so what, it's not as if there were never any white villains in the series? I also like Sheriff Pepper he is an OTT buffoon who no one takes seriously and what is amusing is his obvious inability to recognise that he is actually THAT stupid. The villains are well cast and believable. The big set pieces are well staged and apart from OHMSS has the best ending of all with Samedi appearing spookily on the train. Paul McCartney's title song is the best of the whole canon what a shame the incidental music is so insipid with long periods of no music at all especially in some of the action scenes. Unfortunately the sets are very obviously sets and they look cheap and shoddy although Kananga's lair looks ok. I would say this was a pretty solid effort to begin a new Bond actor and certainly one of Roger's best.

CHB will return reviewing TMWTGG soon  ajb007/biggrin

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

58

Re: Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

CoolHandBond wrote:

Before tonight not seen for a long time probably 10 years or so.

Pros:
Title Song
Titles
Plane chase
Crocodile farm
Boat chase
Train fight
Baron Samedi at the end on the train
Kananga - Baron Samedi - Tee Hee - JW Pepper - Felix Leiter - Miss Caruso

Cons:
No Bond in PTS
No Q
Music - a weak score
Car chase - mimics the same moves as in DAF which was pretty uninspiring in itself
Kananga's death - ridiculous for such a good villain
Obvious cheap looking sets

Observations:
Bond is now lighter in style and smokes cigars

Conclusion:
This is an improvement on DAF - Roger Moore equips himself quite nicely as a new style lighter Bond and there is no silliness of later movies although his schoolboy delivery of his puns is excruciating. I don't find the film racist - so the villains are black - so what, it's not as if there were never any white villains in the series? I also like Sheriff Pepper he is an OTT buffoon who no one takes seriously and what is amusing is his obvious inability to recognise that he is actually THAT stupid. The villains are well cast and believable. The big set pieces are well staged and apart from OHMSS has the best ending of all with Samedi appearing spookily on the train. Paul McCartney's title song is the best of the whole canon what a shame the incidental music is so insipid with long periods of no music at all especially in some of the action scenes. Unfortunately the sets are very obviously sets and they look cheap and shoddy although Kananga's lair looks ok. I would say this was a pretty solid effort to begin a new Bond actor and certainly one of Roger's best.

CHB will return reviewing TMWTGG soon  ajb007/biggrin

I actually love the score. Like with FYEO, it doesn't sound like Bond music, but it's still great music and matches the feel of title song. It uses the title song to great effect within the score as well.

59

Re: Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

Ah yes my old friend LALD  ajb007/martini
So many positives for me.
Crocodile jump.
Train fight.
Flying school - Mrs Bell.
Bus chase.
Butterhook!
Theme tune.
Great score.
Voodoo.
Solitaire.
Boat chase (too long - not at all.)
Sheriff Pepper  ajb007/amazed (although I am not as keen with his appearance in TMWTGG)
As far as Bond villains go this film has one of the best groups - Kananga, Tee Hee, Baron Samedi, "Your champagne sir" got to love Whisper.
My only negatives are Rosie Carver and Kananga's death.
Certainly one of my favourites with Sir Roger as Bond.  ajb007/martini

1.ohmss  2.cr  3.frwl  4.ltk  5.gf  6.tswlm  7.sf  8.op  9.tld  10.dn  11.lald  12.tb  13.fyeo  14.ge  15.mr  16.yolt  17.tnd  18.avtak  19.sp  20.twine  21.qos  22.tmwtgg  23.daf  24.dad

60

Re: Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

I love LALD. Definately up there in my top 5 Bond films.

Pros:

The humour is spot on. Laugh out loud moments without being over silly
Great villains. Kananga/Tee Hee/Baron Samedi
Roger Moore  in fine form. Best film he did along with FYEO
Solitaire is absolutely stunning
I enjoy David Hedison's portrayal as Felix Leiter
Probably the best Bond theme of the series
The whole spooky voodoo vibe
J.W Pepper (he is a plus point in my opinion)
That 'crocodile' stunt
Such a great score. One of the most memorable imo

Cons:

Kananga's stupid death
Boring PTS
Rosie Carver
Bond's epic battle with a snake

Smiert Spionam

61

Re: Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

chrisisall wrote:
Absolutely_Cart wrote:

I think it'll be placed on the mid-low part of my ranking list overall.

Fair enough I'd say, though I have a sentimental liking for it as it was my second theatrical Bond... ajb007/smile

I think another reason why I have alot of love for LALD is the fact that I remember watching it with my dad and my best friend when it was on the TV many years ago. Very happy memories ajb007/smile

Smiert Spionam

62

Re: Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

Pros:

-Arguably the best directed of Hamilton's films (yes, I like GF more, but I honestly think Hamilton really outdid himself with L&LD, purely in terms of his direction).  He crafted a fun ride with highly impressive cinematography.
-Tee Hee and Baron Samedi.  They make quite an impression.
-Solitaire, even though I like other BGs more, is gorgeous.
-The boat chase is fantastic.
-The score is great.
-Some sweet one-liners from Moore.
-The plot is easy to understand.

Cons:
-Moore would give better performances in his next 3 films.  I even prefer his AVTAK performance over his performance in L&LD.  Not saying it's bad, but Moore gives off the sense that his acting muscles need some exercise.
-Kananga, for some reason, doesn't hit me that hard as a villain.  He's goodenough for the film, but for me he's no Zorin, Scaramanga, or Drax.
-Sheriff Pepper's tobacco spitting.  Just a disgusting sight.

Overall, I enjoy L&LD, and give it a 9/10.

"Hostile takeovers.  Shall we?"

1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. OP 5. TSWLM 6. MR 7. TWINE 8. TMWTGG 9. OHMSS 10. FRWL 11. L&LD 12. SF 13. LtK 14. YOLT 15. DN 16. QoS 17. DAD 18. AVTAK 19. CR 20. TB 21. FYEO 22. DAF (SP to be included later; GE to be rewatched and re-ranked)
1) Brosnan 2) Dalton 3) Moore 4) Connery 5) Lazenby and Craig

63

Re: Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

Agent Purple wrote:

Overall, I enjoy L&LD, and give it a 9/10.

The escape from crocs/alligators sequence was great as well .... After Bond comes back to US, the film has one great sequence after another starting with the chase at airport, escape from crocs, boat chase to the finale in Caribbean with Mr. Big getting blown up

64

Re: Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

PS Talking about crocs/alligators, the film has snakes and sharks too  ajb007/lol

65

Re: Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

I think I like Sheriff Pepper more in TMWTGG, although overall I wouldn't say I'm a big fan of him.

It's funny because you'd expect a fan of campy Bond like myself to love Sheriff Pepper, but I'm just not that big on him.

"Hostile takeovers.  Shall we?"

1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. OP 5. TSWLM 6. MR 7. TWINE 8. TMWTGG 9. OHMSS 10. FRWL 11. L&LD 12. SF 13. LtK 14. YOLT 15. DN 16. QoS 17. DAD 18. AVTAK 19. CR 20. TB 21. FYEO 22. DAF (SP to be included later; GE to be rewatched and re-ranked)
1) Brosnan 2) Dalton 3) Moore 4) Connery 5) Lazenby and Craig

66

Re: Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

Virgil37 wrote:
Absolutely_Cart wrote:

Following up Connery was a big big thing, and Moore did that successfully

Exactly, now it's normal to use the phrase "who will be the next James Bond?".Back in 1972, that just didn't exist. Connery was Bond. Another guy had replaced him and failed, so he had to come back in DAF. It must have been quite challenging for Moore.


GL didn't fail playing Bond, OHMSS is better than all Sir Rogers films Imho.

I smell a rat

67

Re: Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

Willard Whyte wrote:
Virgil37 wrote:
Absolutely_Cart wrote:

Following up Connery was a big big thing, and Moore did that successfully

Exactly, now it's normal to use the phrase "who will be the next James Bond?".Back in 1972, that just didn't exist. Connery was Bond. Another guy had replaced him and failed, so he had to come back in DAF. It must have been quite challenging for Moore.


GL didn't fail playing Bond, OHMSS is better than all Sir Rogers films Imho.

Lazenby failed to be accepted as Bond.

68

Re: Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

I believe that EON wanted to do more films with GL, but he resigned due to advice from an agent.

Ofc, the experts can correct me here.

"Hostile takeovers.  Shall we?"

1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. OP 5. TSWLM 6. MR 7. TWINE 8. TMWTGG 9. OHMSS 10. FRWL 11. L&LD 12. SF 13. LtK 14. YOLT 15. DN 16. QoS 17. DAD 18. AVTAK 19. CR 20. TB 21. FYEO 22. DAF (SP to be included later; GE to be rewatched and re-ranked)
1) Brosnan 2) Dalton 3) Moore 4) Connery 5) Lazenby and Craig

69

Re: Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

Agent Purple wrote:

I believe that EON wanted to do more films with GL, but he resigned due to advice from an agent.

Ofc, the experts can correct me here.

No, you're quite right, AP- Cubby & Harry waved a multi-picture contract under his nose but he declined owing to advice from agent Ronan O'Rahilly.

70

Re: Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

I'm curious, does anyone here prefer DAF to L&LD?

I certainly don't, but I'd like to know if anyone here does.

"Hostile takeovers.  Shall we?"

1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. OP 5. TSWLM 6. MR 7. TWINE 8. TMWTGG 9. OHMSS 10. FRWL 11. L&LD 12. SF 13. LtK 14. YOLT 15. DN 16. QoS 17. DAD 18. AVTAK 19. CR 20. TB 21. FYEO 22. DAF (SP to be included later; GE to be rewatched and re-ranked)
1) Brosnan 2) Dalton 3) Moore 4) Connery 5) Lazenby and Craig

71

Re: Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

Well, DAF does have the advantage of a top-rate John Barry score- and Sean Connery. Those (very important) factors aside, I'd say LALD is the more enjoyable movie. Simple answer- it depends on the mood I'm in!  ajb007/smile

72

Re: Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

Barbel, what's your opinion of Sheriff Pepper?

"Hostile takeovers.  Shall we?"

1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. OP 5. TSWLM 6. MR 7. TWINE 8. TMWTGG 9. OHMSS 10. FRWL 11. L&LD 12. SF 13. LtK 14. YOLT 15. DN 16. QoS 17. DAD 18. AVTAK 19. CR 20. TB 21. FYEO 22. DAF (SP to be included later; GE to be rewatched and re-ranked)
1) Brosnan 2) Dalton 3) Moore 4) Connery 5) Lazenby and Craig

73

Re: Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

"Same time tomorrow, Mrs. Bell?"

Btw, Sheriff Pepper went through his worst nightmare  (meeting the "Dooms Day Machine") ajb007/lol

74

Re: Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

Love that one-liner after Bond defeats Tee Hee: "Just being disarming, darling."

"Hostile takeovers.  Shall we?"

1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. OP 5. TSWLM 6. MR 7. TWINE 8. TMWTGG 9. OHMSS 10. FRWL 11. L&LD 12. SF 13. LtK 14. YOLT 15. DN 16. QoS 17. DAD 18. AVTAK 19. CR 20. TB 21. FYEO 22. DAF (SP to be included later; GE to be rewatched and re-ranked)
1) Brosnan 2) Dalton 3) Moore 4) Connery 5) Lazenby and Craig

75

Re: Pros and Cons: Live and Let Die

Agent Purple wrote:

I'm curious, does anyone here prefer DAF to L&LD?

I certainly don't, but I'd like to know if anyone here does.

It's a toss-up. Most days I'd go with DAF because it's Connery, but there's a lot to like in LALD (my 2nd favourite Moore Bond). DAF and LALD's theme songs are both in my top five, for sure.

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM