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Re: Pros and Cons: The World Is Not Enough

Nice!!!  ajb007/cheers

The titles are awesome too, love the usage of white.

1. TWINE  2. FYEO  3. MR  4. TLD  5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS  7. DN  8. OP  9. AVTAK  10. TMWTGG  11. QoS 12. GE  13. CR  14. TB  15. FRWL  16. LTK  17. GF  18. SF  19. LaLD  20. YOLT  21. TND  22. DAD  23. DAF.

"If you'll forgive me, that's a little too scented for my palate."

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Re: Pros and Cons: The World Is Not Enough

Remington wrote:

Basically SF in the 90s. But actully entertaining and Bondian.

Totally! It irks me how SF gets all the critical acclaim for simply recycling elements from the widely panned Brosnan era.

TWINE might replace GE in my Top 5….it's definitely trending up with each viewing.

My current 10 favorite:

1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK

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Re: Pros and Cons: The World Is Not Enough

Firemass wrote:
Remington wrote:

Basically SF in the 90s. But actully entertaining and Bondian.

Totally! It irks me how SF gets all the critical acclaim for simply recycling elements from the widely panned Brosnan era.

TWINE might replace GE in my Top 5….it's definitely trending up with each viewing.


Saying this since I first saw SF, it's a badly done remake of TWINE with some GE in it (Trevelyan).

In SF little to nothing makes sense at all and the character development is a catastrophe. Bond, M, Q...

Dalton Rulez™

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Re: Pros and Cons: The World Is Not Enough

BondJasonBond006 wrote:
Firemass wrote:
Remington wrote:

Basically SF in the 90s. But actully entertaining and Bondian.

Totally! It irks me how SF gets all the critical acclaim for simply recycling elements from the widely panned Brosnan era.

TWINE might replace GE in my Top 5….it's definitely trending up with each viewing.


Saying this since I first saw SF, it's a badly done remake of TWINE with some GE in it (Trevelyan).

In SF little to nothing makes sense at all and the character development is a catastrophe. Bond, M, Q...

I'm not entirely fond of TWINE (I have a review on it, but I would advise against watching it, my least favourite review so far)
but I can say that it was much better than Skyfall.
The Thames chase is much more iconic that the motorcycle chase over the grand bazaar and the office explosion in Skyfall was some rubbish CGI.
Skyfall is my least favourite of Craig's films and TWINE, in comparison, is third in my Brosnan-era ranking (with GoldenEye being Onatopp and TND second even if I enjoy all of his films).

a reasonable rate of return

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Re: Pros and Cons: The World Is Not Enough

BondJasonBond006 wrote:

Saying this since I first saw SF, it's a badly done remake of TWINE with some GE in it (Trevelyan).

With stupid mummy issues too. Then Spectre has brother issues.

While TWINE has internal politics at least it doesn't ruin it by getting too into bullshi*, Bond is still largely detached and self-serving. He's in love with Elektra, respects M enough not to drag her too far through the muck and saves the world then sleeps with Christmas! Brilliant.

1. TWINE  2. FYEO  3. MR  4. TLD  5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS  7. DN  8. OP  9. AVTAK  10. TMWTGG  11. QoS 12. GE  13. CR  14. TB  15. FRWL  16. LTK  17. GF  18. SF  19. LaLD  20. YOLT  21. TND  22. DAD  23. DAF.

"If you'll forgive me, that's a little too scented for my palate."

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Re: Pros and Cons: The World Is Not Enough

heartbroken_mr_drax wrote:
BondJasonBond006 wrote:

Saying this since I first saw SF, it's a badly done remake of TWINE with some GE in it (Trevelyan).

With stupid mummy issues too. Then Spectre has brother issues.

While TWINE has internal politics at least it doesn't ruin it by getting too into bullshi*, Bond is still largely detached and self-serving. He's in love with Elektra, respects M enough not to drag her too far through the muck and saves the world then sleeps with Christmas! Brilliant.

YES! Not my favourite Bond but still top 10 for me! ajb007/cheers

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.QOS 4.DN 5.GF/GE 6.SP 7.FRWL 8.TB/TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT

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Re: Pros and Cons: The World Is Not Enough

I don't do lists, but if I did: Top 5.

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Re: Pros and Cons: The World Is Not Enough

Barbel wrote:

I don't do lists, but if I did: Top 5.

ajb007/martini   ajb007/biggrin   ajb007/cheers

1. TWINE  2. FYEO  3. MR  4. TLD  5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS  7. DN  8. OP  9. AVTAK  10. TMWTGG  11. QoS 12. GE  13. CR  14. TB  15. FRWL  16. LTK  17. GF  18. SF  19. LaLD  20. YOLT  21. TND  22. DAD  23. DAF.

"If you'll forgive me, that's a little too scented for my palate."

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Re: Pros and Cons: The World Is Not Enough

BondJasonBond006 wrote:
Firemass wrote:
Remington wrote:

Basically SF in the 90s. But actully entertaining and Bondian.

Totally! It irks me how SF gets all the critical acclaim for simply recycling elements from the widely panned Brosnan era.

TWINE might replace GE in my Top 5….it's definitely trending up with each viewing.


Saying this since I first saw SF, it's a badly done remake of TWINE with some GE in it (Trevelyan).

In SF little to nothing makes sense at all and the character development is a catastrophe. Bond, M, Q...

SF is my favorite Bond film but the obvious influence makes me appreciate the ideas and concepts first brought forward in TWINE and it remains one of my favorite Bond stories. So I recognize the similarities but they don't necessarily detract from my enjoyment of SF because I liked them in TWINE as well regardless of who did it better.

@deanwdunlevy

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Re: Pros and Cons: The World Is Not Enough

I never realized Bond stole his Mr White / Altaussee look from one of Renard's henchmen  ajb007/wink

https://s2.postimg.cc/y25muzmmt/Unbenannt.jpg

"I'm afraid I'm a complicated woman. "
"- That is something to be afraid of."

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Re: Pros and Cons: The World Is Not Enough

Had a great time rewatching.

My criticism: Marceau's performance still underwhelms me.

I give the film a 9/10.

"Hostile takeovers.  Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD  2. TND  3. GF  4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later

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Re: Pros and Cons: The World Is Not Enough

PROS
- Title is a line directly from Fleming, and by no coincidence is one of the good original titles.

- This film succeeds at telling an original story focused on the characters without getting obscured by action sequences, unlike the other three Brosnans. It could almost have started as a novel rather than a big budget blockbuster.

- There's a bit of Fleming, and even more Amis in this film:
- M in a rough stone prison cell, somewhere on an island in the eastern mediterranean, is straight out of Colonel Sun, as is the villains plot to set off an explosion which will shift the global balance of power.
- Also that torture chair, Elektra's frottage of the tortured man, and her sexy/nasty line "do you know what happens to a man when he is strangled", is very similar in spirit. In Colonel Sun, the villain tortured Bond in a chair, then ordered one of the prostitutes to sexually arouse him immediately before breaking all his bones.
- The title, the ski scene, and the image of a selfdestructive woman losing a lot of money at a casino are all from On Her Majesty's Secret Service.
- In the For  Your Eyes Only story, M was personal friends with the Havelocks, and sent Bond to avenge their deaths on a completely unofficial mission for personal motives. And there was also a vengeful daughter. M's personal connection and motivation were not part of the Roger Moore film based on the short story (M actually wasn't even in it), but that all appears here.


- Theme song really sounds like a Bond theme, with some satisfying notes in the chorus and that nice reverby guitar.
- The theme song's melody is well integrated into the score, and foreshadows the tragic conclusion.
- The closing credits are accompanied by a trippy remix sampling both the main theme and the Bond theme, with Orb-like breaks.


- When this film came out I was actually surprised to be surprised by something in a modern Bondfilm.
The first two were so formulaic you'd think they'd been stamped out by a random plot generating machine.
- To this day, some folks still think a CON of this film is that Renard gets too little time at expense of Elektra, continuing to assume he is the main villain even after all is explained at the end. Proof this film successfully plays a good trick on its audience.

- Brosnan's getting a little fatter, which is a good thing in his case: he was too skinny to be believable as Bond before.
- Brosnan doesn't wield a machine gun until one scene in the second half, and then specifically at Renard's men after they've been doing the the same to him.
- BrosnanBond again gets philosophical here, and does so more believably than in his first two films.


- M's drinking on the job again!

- The boat chase, which really shows off the Thames, and all those crazy shortcuts across the meanders.
- CigarGirl: too bad Bond never gets the chance to doublecheck her wellrounded figures.


- Elektra King, one of the most complex and unpredictable female leads in any Bond film.
- Sophie Marceau is so classically beautiful with her olive skin and those cheekbones.
- She is a good actress, persuasively delivering the sad philosophical dialog (thus contrasting strongly with Terri Hatcher in the previous film). All her dialog must be understood at two levels, which is a very tricky task to write and perform.
- She actually taunts Renard with the fact Bond was a better lover. Bond has slept with lots of villains' girlfriends, and I dont think we've ever seen one do this before. But this case is special, because she's the boss.

- The death of Elektra is my choice for Bond's coldest kill ever. This means more than the killing of Locke or Dent or Stromberg because they've had so many scenes together, and their relationship was persuasively developed.
- M witnesses the killing and does a doubletake.


- Return of Zukovski, the best of Brosnan's recurring characters, he gets a lot of screen time (three separate scenes).

- The casino scene, and the xray specs (a gadget we watch Bond pick up in Q's lab, but is unexplained until we see him use them).
- BrosnanBond displays a lot of attitude in this scene, and the bit with the henchman's tie is one of his best moves ever.
- Classy decor throughout the whole film, Elektra's bedroom for example.


- Christmas Jones is the sexiest Bondgirl since Anya.
- "I have to get [the plutonium] back, or someones going to have my ass!!" "First things first" - is a variation of a Goldie Hawn/Chevy Chase dialog from Foul Play.
- Christmas jiggles every time she arches an eyebrow, and then she starts to run!
- Second Bondgirl in a row who was also a Seinfeldgirl. Costanza appreciates Denise Richards's PROs.




CONS
- Desmond Llewelyn would pass away shortly after completing this film.

- John Cleese is really slumming it here. I gather he's got a lot of alimony to pay off so he keeps accepting these parts.

- Robert Carlyle was much scarier in Trainspotting

- I'm still not sure the ski-chase makes any sense.
- The submarine finale drags on and on, long after the real story has concluded. It rather undermines the impact of Elektra's final scene.
- In fact there are several overlong action sequences with too much technobabble and very poor storytelling.
- Other than the boat chase, the action scenes are not part of why this film is so good, and could have been edited down.

- Bond's still driving that standard issue yuppie-mobile (but at least it meets with a satisfying end).

- Christmas is wearing a bra when her skimpy white shirt gets soaking wet during the submarine finale. So much wasted potential!

Last edited by caractacus potts (7th Jun 2020 18:24)