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Re: Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

I watched DAD the other night on blu-ray and I can't help but like it.  ajb007/smile
If they would've cut the two Virtual Reality scenes and the ice-surfing it would be a much more solid film.

Brosnan gets a bonus point for unplugging the security camera, whereas Craig let it slide in Spectre.  ajb007/biggrin

My current 10 favorite:

1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK

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Re: Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

Firemass wrote:

Brosnan gets a bonus point for unplugging the security camera, whereas Craig let it slide in Spectre.  ajb007/biggrin

  ajb007/cheers
Plus: Sonisall & I are into swordplay so I see this on a different level than some other Bond fans. ajb007/biggrin

Last edited by chrisisall (21st Jan 2016 02:26)

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.QOS 4.DN 5.GF/GE 6.SP 7.FRWL 8.TB/TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT

253

Re: Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

Firemass wrote:

I watched DAD the other night on blu-ray and I can't help but like it.  ajb007/smile
If they would've cut the two Virtual Reality scenes and the ice-surfing it would be a much more solid film.

Brosnan gets a bonus point for unplugging the security camera, whereas Craig let it slide in Spectre.  ajb007/biggrin

There certainly are things to really enjoy about DAD to the point where at times it becomes a guilty pleasure. But you're right, for it to be totally enjoyed for me - some scenes really shouldn't be there.

1. TWINE  2. FYEO  3. MR  4. TLD  5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS  7. DN  8. OP  9. AVTAK  10. TMWTGG  11. QoS 12. GE  13. CR  14. TB  15. FRWL  16. LTK  17. GF  18. SF  19. LaLD  20. YOLT  21. TND  22. DAD  23. DAF.

"If you'll forgive me, that's a little too scented for my palate."

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Re: Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

So I get to DAD in my revisiting of the Bonds. Only seen this twice and the last time probably over 10 years ago.

Pros:
PTS
Titles
Music
Trade on the bridge
Hospital escape
Checking into Yacht Club Hotel
DNA clinic sequence
Sword fight
Ice Palace
Ice car chase
Airplane climax

Cons:
Invisible car
Kite surfing CGI
Virtual reality scenes

Conclusion:

PB is back to his TND form and it's a good performance. The PTS ranks as one of the best - I remember being impressed at the surfing scene at the cinema. Also has PB's best quip with "Saved by the bell" he delivers it perfectly. This film unjustly gets a lot of stick - it flows well and the plot is decent and easy to follow - it is reminiscent of DAF at the end and there are several nods to previous Bond movies. Some of the CGI is dodgy but that is not unusual to be fair in a Bond movie - and I thought the kite surfing was a fun scene even though the effects were awful. This is probably as close to a Roger Moore movie than any of the other Bonds have got close to. Not really keen on John Cleese as Q and Samantha Bond's performance confirms that she is definitely the worst Moneypenny in the canon. I enjoyed this more than I thought I would and ends PB's tenure nicely - 2 good ones and 2 bad ones for him.

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

255

Re: Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

CoolHandBond wrote:

This is probably as close to a Roger Moore movie than any of the other Bonds have got close to.

I would say TND is closer to a RM movie than any other Bond movie. There are times when DAD definitely feels similar to RM era, but the worst moments bear no resemblance to any previous Bond films.

Halle Berry saying "Yo Mama!"  (and not ever having a serious conversation)
The CGI surfing
Graves Body Armor and Star Wars-style electricity weapon
Virtual Reality sequences
Invisible Car


If you wanted to say the best parts of DAD are reminicent of the RM era then I would agree.  ajb007/martini

My current 10 favorite:

1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK

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Re: Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

Pros

The scenes leading up to Iceland.

Graves is a great villain. Toby Stephens plays him as a really punchable character.

Cons

The scenes after Iceland

The theme song sounds like something played at nightclubs.

Jinx.

Some of the dialouge. Jinx's lines to be precise.

Have you ever heard of the Emancipation Proclamation?"

" I don't listen to hip hop!"

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Re: Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

hehadlotsofguts wrote:

Pros

The scenes leading up to Iceland.

Graves is a great villain. Toby Stephens plays him as a really punchable character.

Cons

The scenes after Iceland

The theme song sounds like something played at nightclubs.

Jinx.

Some of the dialouge. Jinx's lines to be precise.

Agree 100% with this.

1. TWINE  2. FYEO  3. MR  4. TLD  5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS  7. DN  8. OP  9. AVTAK  10. TMWTGG  11. QoS 12. GE  13. CR  14. TB  15. FRWL  16. LTK  17. GF  18. SF  19. LaLD  20. YOLT  21. TND  22. DAD  23. DAF.

"If you'll forgive me, that's a little too scented for my palate."

258

Re: Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

Do you realize just how much more palatable the WHOLE FILM might be just by toning down the 'Yo Momma' attitude Halle took?

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.QOS 4.DN 5.GF/GE 6.SP 7.FRWL 8.TB/TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT

259

Re: Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

chrisisall wrote:

Do you realize just how much more palatable the WHOLE FILM might be just by toning down the 'Yo Momma' attitude Halle took?

Having a more mature Bond girl always helps significantly.

260

Re: Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

Matt S wrote:
chrisisall wrote:

Do you realize just how much more palatable the WHOLE FILM might be just by toning down the 'Yo Momma' attitude Halle took?

Having a more mature Bond girl always helps significantly.

I think it would've helped, but I don't see the chemistry between the two actors. To me the whole movie is about the girls giving Bond unspecified by-product of the alimentary system for who he is. It is a little similar to the way they talk about him in GE - but even then, the chemistry between Natalya and Bond was clear.

"I'm checkin' out!"

1. TWINE  2. FYEO  3. MR  4. TLD  5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS  7. DN  8. OP  9. AVTAK  10. TMWTGG  11. QoS 12. GE  13. CR  14. TB  15. FRWL  16. LTK  17. GF  18. SF  19. LaLD  20. YOLT  21. TND  22. DAD  23. DAF.

"If you'll forgive me, that's a little too scented for my palate."

261

Re: Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

chrisisall wrote:

Do you realize just how much more palatable the WHOLE FILM might be just by toning down the 'Yo Momma' attitude Halle took?

ummmmm...no

That wouldn't have toned down the invisible Aston part ot the tsunamis scenes

1. For Your Eyes Only      2. The Living Daylights    3 From Russia with Love  4. Casino Royale  5. OHMSS  6. Skyfall

262

Re: Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

broadshoulder wrote:
chrisisall wrote:

Do you realize just how much more palatable the WHOLE FILM might be just by toning down the 'Yo Momma' attitude Halle took?

ummmmm...no

That wouldn't have toned down the invisible Aston part or the tsunamis scenes

No, but that wasn't my point. Every Bond movie has stupid s**t in it we serious fans would like to see changed. But if the core elements are sound, we complain far less.
What if they made a 'perfect' Bond movie today? It would be like this:
It was perfect.
Yeah.
I agree.
Nothing wrong with that one.
Yeah.
+1
Wow, I can't nitpick this.
It's.. just right....
It's... yes... fine.
Love it.

ajb007/biggrin
We'd have nothing to shred apart!!!!

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.QOS 4.DN 5.GF/GE 6.SP 7.FRWL 8.TB/TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT

263

Re: Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

chrisisall wrote:
broadshoulder wrote:
chrisisall wrote:

Do you realize just how much more palatable the WHOLE FILM might be just by toning down the 'Yo Momma' attitude Halle took?

ummmmm...no

That wouldn't have toned down the invisible Aston part or the tsunamis scenes

No, but that wasn't my point. Every Bond movie has stupid s**t in it we serious fans would like to see changed. But if the core elements are sound, we complain far less.
What if they made a 'perfect' Bond movie today? It would be like this:
It was perfect.
Yeah.
I agree.
Nothing wrong with that one.
Yeah.
+1
Wow, I can't nitpick this.
It's.. just right....
It's... yes... fine.
Love it.

ajb007/biggrin
We'd have nothing to shred apart!!!!

DAD is different. Its a failure on so many levels - directing, acting, script, casting. It would be easier to list the bits which do work rather then the bits that dont work...

1. For Your Eyes Only      2. The Living Daylights    3 From Russia with Love  4. Casino Royale  5. OHMSS  6. Skyfall

264

Re: Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

Firemass wrote:

I watched DAD the other night on blu-ray and I can't help but like it.  ajb007/smile
If they would've cut the two Virtual Reality scenes and the ice-surfing it would be a much more solid film.

Brosnan gets a bonus point for unplugging the security camera, whereas Craig let it slide in Spectre.  ajb007/biggrin


There are always scenes in every Bond movie that some of us won't like. I quite enjoy the movie the way it is. Brosnan's Bond is obviously a professional - disabling security cameras is the first thing he would think of.

I also don't understand how anyone may NOT love a car with adaptive camouflage. I love it at least as much as the DB5 and underwater Lotus.

I would have developed Jinx's character more - but even then, it's much better to have her the way it is than not at all.

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Re: Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

Jag wrote:

I also don't understand how anyone may NOT love a car with adaptive camouflage. I love it at least as much as the DB5 and underwater Lotus.

I don't have a problem with it, I've always thought it was awesome.

And hey, it is technically possible. The film doesn't make it seem like a completely invisible car either...

"You can't kill my dreams, but my dreams can kill you!"

1. TWINE  2. FYEO  3. MR  4. TLD  5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS  7. DN  8. OP  9. AVTAK  10. TMWTGG  11. QoS 12. GE  13. CR  14. TB  15. FRWL  16. LTK  17. GF  18. SF  19. LaLD  20. YOLT  21. TND  22. DAD  23. DAF.

"If you'll forgive me, that's a little too scented for my palate."

266

Re: Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

heartbroken_mr_drax wrote:
Jag wrote:

I also don't understand how anyone may NOT love a car with adaptive camouflage. I love it at least as much as the DB5 and underwater Lotus.

I don't have a problem with it, I've always thought it was awesome.

And hey, it is technically possible. The film doesn't make it seem like a completely invisible car either...

"You can't kill my dreams, but my dreams can kill you!"

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SQ3pdgo-Wo

1. For Your Eyes Only      2. The Living Daylights    3 From Russia with Love  4. Casino Royale  5. OHMSS  6. Skyfall

267

Re: Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

broadshoulder wrote:
heartbroken_mr_drax wrote:
Jag wrote:

I also don't understand how anyone may NOT love a car with adaptive camouflage. I love it at least as much as the DB5 and underwater Lotus.

I don't have a problem with it, I've always thought it was awesome.

And hey, it is technically possible. The film doesn't make it seem like a completely invisible car either...

"You can't kill my dreams, but my dreams can kill you!"

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SQ3pdgo-Wo


Those guys did not even manage to hold the golden-egg-making job that working at Top Gear was. Thank goodness that they don't work on Bond movies!  ajb007/lol

268

Re: Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

How To Create An Invisible Car - 50 Years of Bond Cars - Top Gear

You were saying?

1. For Your Eyes Only      2. The Living Daylights    3 From Russia with Love  4. Casino Royale  5. OHMSS  6. Skyfall

269

Re: Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

broadshoulder wrote:
chrisisall wrote:
broadshoulder wrote:

ummmmm...no

That wouldn't have toned down the invisible Aston part or the tsunamis scenes

No, but that wasn't my point. Every Bond movie has stupid s**t in it we serious fans would like to see changed. But if the core elements are sound, we complain far less.
What if they made a 'perfect' Bond movie today? It would be like this:
It was perfect.
Yeah.
I agree.
Nothing wrong with that one.
Yeah.
+1
Wow, I can't nitpick this.
It's.. just right....
It's... yes... fine.
Love it.

ajb007/biggrin
We'd have nothing to shred apart!!!!

DAD is different. Its a failure on so many levels - directing, acting, script, casting. It would be easier to list the bits which do work rather then the bits that dont work...

For me the great shame about DAD was that it is at least half a very good Bond film indeed.  Rosamund Pike is stunning, Pierce looks better a bit older, the Sword fight is great and the PTS superb. Then there's Jinx...and all of the other well known terrible decisions that others have noted. It's a shame, and a particular shame as it was Pierce's last.I think Tamohori was a major blunder.

Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.

270

Re: Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

Having rewatched all of the Bond films in the build-up to Spectre I was struck by how much I enjoyed the 'Pros' of DAD, and how much I disliked the 'Cons'. I felt like the film was a cocktail of very good and very bad bits with relatively little average stuff. And it does divide quite neatly into a good first half and a bad second half. A pity, a real missed opportunity.

271

Re: Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

I rewatched this one pretty recently and had a hard time enjoying it even though I'm a huge Brosnan fan. In fact, I have it down at the very bottom of my list, but that doesn't mean it's worthless. For one thing, I really enjoyed Toby Stephens as Gustav Graves, he was really charasmatic and brought just the right amount of batshit insane bravado to the role - it was well-suited to the wild absurdity of the movie, and he embraced it, there was something in his performance, in his physicality, that reminded me a little of a Buster Keaton silent comedy.

There are lots of things that left a sour taste, but I'll mention one in particular: the VR scene with Moneypenny fantasizing about Bond making out with her - this played like a mean-spirited joke that cheapened Moneypenny as a character and I also think it misunderstood the nature of Moneypenny and Bond's flirtatious relationship. I'm sure she finds him attractive, but for the most part, I think she's basically teasing him about what a shameless cad he is and he's acknowledging it. If he really ever took her up on any of her come-ons, I'm not entirely certain she'd be flattered. Anyways, the next time we see her she'll be a field agent.

1. Moore  2. Brosnan  3. Dalton  4. Connery  5. Craig  6. Lazenby

272

Re: Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

zaphod99 wrote:

I think Tamohori was a major blunder.

I'm really not sure why they picked him to direct. Yes he did the excellent Once Were Warriors - but that's an independent flick that is mostly known only in my country. Perhaps at the time, after doing a Sopranos episode as well and a few B-grade action flicks he had a bit of "zing" about him...

After Mendes' run is over, will EON only go with more accomplished directors?

1. TWINE  2. FYEO  3. MR  4. TLD  5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS  7. DN  8. OP  9. AVTAK  10. TMWTGG  11. QoS 12. GE  13. CR  14. TB  15. FRWL  16. LTK  17. GF  18. SF  19. LaLD  20. YOLT  21. TND  22. DAD  23. DAF.

"If you'll forgive me, that's a little too scented for my palate."

273

Re: Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

heartbroken_mr_drax wrote:
zaphod99 wrote:

I think Tamohori was a major blunder.

I'm really not sure why they picked him to direct. ?

I am stunned how he got the gig. All I can say is that on one of the documentaries he stated "cgi. Its the future" and flooded the film with it.

As we found out live action is the future. Not cgi.

1. For Your Eyes Only      2. The Living Daylights    3 From Russia with Love  4. Casino Royale  5. OHMSS  6. Skyfall

274

Re: Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

I sometimes wonder if the 'Carry On' team got really drunk and wrote the script for DAD.
"I don't like https://www.reference.com/pets-animals/male-chicken-c fights" - I can just picture Kenneth Williams saying "ooh Madonna behave". Or "I see you handle your weapon well" - "I have been known to keep my tip up" deserves a Sid James cackle. The whole scene with Bond and Jinx at the end "Don't pull it out, I'm not finished with it yet". "See it's a perfect fit". "Uh-hm leave it in" etc sounds like a terrible version of Carry on Camping.
DAD lacks class and Bond films should always have class.  ajb007/martini

1.ohmss  2.cr  3.frwl  4.ltk  5.gf  6.tswlm  7.sf  8.op  9.tld  10.dn  11.lald  12.tb  13.fyeo  14.ge  15.mr  16.yolt  17.tnd  18.avtak  19.sp  20.twine  21.qos  22.tmwtgg  23.daf  24.dad

275

Re: Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

The Wicker Man wrote:

DAD lacks class and Bond films should always have class.  ajb007/martini

It has class, just a different teacher... ajb007/lol

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.QOS 4.DN 5.GF/GE 6.SP 7.FRWL 8.TB/TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT