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Re: Pros and Cons: The Man with the Golden Gun

Thunderpussy wrote:

The Thugs in OHMSS are Draco's men, keeping an eye on her

If I remember correctly, they hold her at knife-point?

"Please don't try to follow me"

1. GE 2. MR 3. TSWLM 4. GF 5. DN 6. TND 7. TMWTGG 8. OP 9. TWINE 10. AVTAK

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Man with the Golden Gun

It does a lot of things right:

- iconic villain, maybe the best in the franchise
- amazing locations
- really good tense action
- really enjoyable story
- one of the best stunts you will find in any movie ever

Cons:

- said stunt is damn near ruined by a god awful slide whistle.  What in the........ I want the option to have an audio track without that whistle.

Seriously, that is the only con I really remember and probably because it was so infuriating.

Top Ten Bond - 10:Goldfinger 9:Thunderball 8:The Spy who Loved Me 7:For Your Eyes Only 6: Casino Royale 5:The Man with the Golden Gun 4:Quantum of Solace 3:Licence to Kill 2:Goldeneye 1:The Living Daylights

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Man with the Golden Gun

there actually is a fragment of Fleming in this film
in the book, Goodnight recognises Bond's voice over the phone, and they arrange a dinner date, he requests she wear something "tight in all the right places, not too many buttons" ...
at dinner he's checking out her dress, and she says "the buttons are down the back ... standard issue for a tropical station"
Bond: "I can just see Q Branch dreaming it up. I suppose one of the buttons has a death pill in it"
Goodnight: "of course, but I cant remember which, I'll just have to swallow the whole string"

look, its in the film, almost word for word, during the Phuyuck scene
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx0oI_QDOww

difference is bookGoodnight then goes on for two pages about the details of the Jamaican sugar market in reaction to Castro's revolution
whereas in the movie MooreBond immediately makes the clumsiest pass in all the movies, and this to a friend of his from the office
in the book Goodnight is written as more intelligent
in the movie they're both written as fools ... well, at least Bond knows more about the Solex McGuffin than Scaramanga

Last edited by caractacus potts (5th Apr 2017 00:08)

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Man with the Golden Gun

There are a couple more fragments, too. Bond's potted history of Scaramanga early in the film has its roots in Fleming, and Scaramanga's elephant story does as well.

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Man with the Golden Gun

My mind changes on this one all the time.

Pros:
.Roger's more serious/jerkish performance.
.Christopher Lee.
.Nick Nack.
.I like everything from the gunbarrel to the scene of Chew Mi in the pool.
.The return of Sherrif J.W. Pepper.
.The dinner scene on the island.
.The showdown with Nick Nack had me in tears.

Cons:
.The theme, while not bad, is a little uninspired.
.Britt Eckland. Annoying character. I never even thought she was that hot.
.Bond grabbing the sumo wrestlers ass.
.Hip's nieces. That whole karate school sequence is embarrassing.
.The slide whistle.
.The action scenes aren't very exciting.

Decent flick but could've been better.

7/10 ajb007/martini .

1. GE 2. CR 3. LTK 4. TLD 5. TB 6. GF 7. FRWL 8. DN 9. OHMSS 10. QOS 11. TND 12. TSWLM 13. FYEO 14. OP 15. MR 16. TWINE 17. DAD 18. SF 19. DAF 20. AVTAK 21. LALD 22. TMWTGG 23. YOLT 24. SP

1. Connery 2. Moore 3. Dalton 4. Brosnan 5. Craig 6. Lazenby

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Man with the Golden Gun

Pros

The PTS with Rodney, coming to Scaramanga's island to duel him. We get to see how much of a threat Scaramanga is.

The locations- I like the atmospheric feel of them. The beach in the PTS, looks stunning.

Hip and Bond scoping out Hai Fat's lair. Hip standing on Bond's shoulder's, with Bond smoking a cigar, reeks of cool! One of the best scenes in the film.

The return of JW Pepper. I liked the fish out of water aspect to JW's second appearance. He's been dragged on holiday by his wife and he is miserable. His demeanour changes when he meets Bond, adding to some fun scenes.

The scene at the Boxing ring with Scaramanga explaining to Bond how he became a killer. Scaramanga respects Bond as an assassin and means him no harm. They are quite civil to each other. It was only when Bond went to Scaramanga's island, that Scaramanga set about wanting to kill Bond.

I like Nick Nack. He's a worky ticket,  but that's what makes him a fun character. I liked how much fun he has at the controls of the funhouse.

The corkscrew jump is an amazing stunt.

Andrea Anders and Goodnight are gorgeous. I like that Anders is trapped in an unhappy relationship with Scaramanga and she sees Bond as a way of escaping him. Her death was chilling. Anders staring into space after being shot, gives me the creeps.

Cons

Bond hitting Andrea Anders for information. This attitude suited Connery and Lazenby, but it's out of chatacter for Roger's Bond to do it.

The theme song is not one of my favourites at all.

Have you ever heard of the Emancipation Proclamation?"

" I don't listen to hip hop!"

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Man with the Golden Gun

The only major flaw I can find with this film is that it feels like some sort of B-Movie, with the contributing factors being the odd aspect ratio (it took the series back by exactly a decade) and the colours not being that vibrant as they were in Diamonds or Let Die.
Another contributing factor to me not liking it that much was that almost none of the locations feel like they had been filmed "on location" and made on a set. This isn't limited to Golden Gun, as the same can be said for Hamilton's other movies. The Miami scenes from Goldfinger coming to mind even if he got better at hiding that in Diamonds.

"...I have the oddest feeling we will be meeting again sometime..."
-Roger Moore's James Bond. RIP.
I have a YouTube channel on all things Bond (amongst other things, coming soon™).
The name's Bond and Beyond. It's currently on hold, though.

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Man with the Golden Gun

I have to disagree with you there, DP- I don't think that "almost none of the locations [in TMWTGG] feel like they had been filmed "on location".

https://s16.postimg.cc/qsqj16ash/AA_OLD_MAN_2.jpg
https://s2.postimg.cc/h3poz2qlx/AA_OLD_MAN_3.jpg
https://s12.postimg.cc/socvgln3d/aa_old_man_4.jpg
https://s28.postimg.cc/a5rdd2pw9/AA_OLD_MAN_5.jpg

etc, all create a real sense of place. Certainly, there are sets and some don't blend 100% with the location shots but I don't feel they're in the majority and I'd say the location shots are one of the film's strengths.

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Man with the Golden Gun

Of course there are some exceptions, like the HMS Queen Elizabeth and Scaramanga's Island as Barbel stated but as much as I want to love some aspects of the movie, it's hard for me to do so.
It's been a long time since I last watched the movie, and even if I don't find it to be the best of Roger's movies (even if it was the one with the most potential to become the best), the set up and the story are all wonderful. It is by far the most watchable first hour of any Bond movie with SPECTRE, Royale, TND, OP, TB being all possible contenders for that title.
This has probably already been mentioned, by why does Barry regard it as his worst score to a Bond movie? There are some excellent cues, and I'm sure Arnold took inspiration from it. That said, after "View To A Kill", "Nobody Does It Better", "Live and Let Die" and even "All Time High", Lulu's song is tough not to love.
The Man With The Golden Gun always will have a special place in my heart because it was the first Roger Bond movie that I ever saw. Some people regard it as Roger's (mid) low point as Bond, he was the closest to the classic Bond character than he ever got.

"...I have the oddest feeling we will be meeting again sometime..."
-Roger Moore's James Bond. RIP.
I have a YouTube channel on all things Bond (amongst other things, coming soon™).
The name's Bond and Beyond. It's currently on hold, though.

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Man with the Golden Gun

One flaw is that for most of the film, Bond isn't really in danger, he just thinks he is. Scaramanga isn't even aware he exists and doesn't care about him, it was his assistant that sent him the bullet with the 007 on it. This mystery aspect and the resolution doesn't really come across very well. As for the phony locations, well, the genuine phony (!) one in Beirut stands out, with no establishing shot that I recall, it might be an episode of The Saint.

"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

Roger Moore 1927-2017

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Man with the Golden Gun

Dirty Punker wrote:

This has probably already been mentioned, by why does Barry regard it as his worst score to a Bond movie? There are some excellent cues, and I'm sure Arnold took inspiration from it. That said, after "View To A Kill", "Nobody Does It Better", "Live and Let Die" and even "All Time High", Lulu's song is tough not to love.

The theme is simply lazy, and the score is uninspired. Along with From Russia with Love, this film has Barry's weakest score. In From Russia with Love, the score is a result of Barry's inexperience. For The Man with the Golden Gun, the score just lacks heart. Barry uses one theme for both action and love scenes, and he doesn't really do anything with it. The other cues just sound like filler. It sounds like he wrote the whole score very, very quickly and put no love into it. It's still a fine score because of the master that John Barry was, but I'm not surprised it was his least favourite.

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Man with the Golden Gun

I agree with what Matt S says, and would add that JB did indeed write the score very quickly- he was brought onboard very late into the proceedings.

(Still, that's no excuse for the slide whistle  ajb007/crap )

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Man with the Golden Gun

Isn't Live and Let Die and The Man With The Golden Gun the shortest time between movies since From Russia With Love and Goldfinger?
It might not be his worst score but maybe his least favourite because of the experience of writing it (too short a timeframe, etc).
That is also a huge problem with the movie, it was done too quickly and it hadn't been done as well as it could've been. The script could've been improved and it was at this film where the Fleming material started to dry up. Had they waited a bit and found some fresh new ideas, it could've been the best one out of the bunch.
Britt Ekland as Goodnight isn't much more than a pretty face and she has but a decorative role in later scenes.
Guy Hamilton's directing doesn't feel as lively as it had been in Diamonds and Let Die. Looks like he didn't know his limitations as a director.
Andrea's character doesn't get the background that she deserves or how she got trapped with Scaramanga as, I'm sure, she'd be a very intriguing story.
I think that had there been no music for the car stunt, it would've been much better.
We all have our opinions and I can't change yours on the theme. I might like it that much because it's the one I heard the most and the one that grew the most on me. It's a shame that some cues were never released but they at least are pretty easy to find on YouTube (Bond arriving at Macau, A moment with Goodnight etc)
I don't find JW to be annoying but couldn't they think up a better story on how he would've been in an AMC car? I don't mind advertising, if it is the right product, but that is just lazy.
There is a lack of gadgets, and I think that they could've gotten away with Bond using his magnetic/saw Sub twice in a row. Or using Roger's cigar smoking habits in one shape or form. Yet, one could argue that the Golden Gun is "gadget-enough" for one film. Also, with Bond wearing a blue silky holster, he could've matched up the lining of his suit with it but that's just one of my crazy ideas. Speaking of which, why did he wear a double breasted suit for a stakeout in a possible assassination?

"...I have the oddest feeling we will be meeting again sometime..."
-Roger Moore's James Bond. RIP.
I have a YouTube channel on all things Bond (amongst other things, coming soon™).
The name's Bond and Beyond. It's currently on hold, though.

264

Re: Pros and Cons: The Man with the Golden Gun

TMWTGG fits into that yo-yo category for me. I love it through nostalgia (I saw it when I was about 7-8 on TV, my first) and at times really enjoy what Remington calls Moore's "more serious/jerky" performance. But other times it falls into the boring and odd DAF, LALD camp that fails to inspire.

I will say that I think TMWTGG is the stronger film out of the 3 - mostly through Scaramanga, locations (non-US) and Barry's score.

1. TWINE  2. FYEO  3. MR  4. TLD  5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS  7. DN  8. OP  9. AVTAK  10. TMWTGG  11. QoS 12. GE  13. CR  14. TB  15. FRWL  16. LTK  17. GF  18. SF  19. LaLD  20. YOLT  21. TND  22. DAD  23. DAF.

"If you'll forgive me, that's a little too scented for my palate."

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Man with the Golden Gun

I'd agree with that partially- Christopher Lee is naturally a better villain than Charles Grey or Yaphet Kotto (both excellent actors, but Lee trumps them: he's CHRISTOPHER LEE for God's sake), and the locations are superb- but feel Barry did a wonderful job on DAF which beats both what he himself did on TMWTGG and George Martin did on LALD.

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Man with the Golden Gun

Barbel wrote:

I'd agree with that partially- Christopher Lee is naturally a better villain than Charles Grey or Yaphet Kotto (both excellent actors, but Lee trumps them: he's CHRISTOPHER LEE for God's sake), and the locations are superb- but feel Barry did a wonderful job on DAF which beats both what he himself did on TMWTGG and George Martin did on LALD.

I agree. The DAF score is miles ahead of the TMWTGG score. Martin's score is brilliant in its own way.

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Man with the Golden Gun

I might have to take a screenshot of this: The top 7 threads right now are all 7 of Roger Moore's films.

"Please don't try to follow me"

1. GE 2. MR 3. TSWLM 4. GF 5. DN 6. TND 7. TMWTGG 8. OP 9. TWINE 10. AVTAK

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Man with the Golden Gun

Firemass wrote:

I might have to take a screenshot of this: The top 7 threads right now are all 7 of Roger Moore's films.

You're welcome ajb007/martini  ajb007/lol

1. GE 2. CR 3. LTK 4. TLD 5. TB 6. GF 7. FRWL 8. DN 9. OHMSS 10. QOS 11. TND 12. TSWLM 13. FYEO 14. OP 15. MR 16. TWINE 17. DAD 18. SF 19. DAF 20. AVTAK 21. LALD 22. TMWTGG 23. YOLT 24. SP

1. Connery 2. Moore 3. Dalton 4. Brosnan 5. Craig 6. Lazenby

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Man with the Golden Gun

On to the Connery films, I suppose? ajb007/lol   ajb007/martini

"...I have the oddest feeling we will be meeting again sometime..."
-Roger Moore's James Bond. RIP.
I have a YouTube channel on all things Bond (amongst other things, coming soon™).
The name's Bond and Beyond. It's currently on hold, though.

270

Re: Pros and Cons: The Man with the Golden Gun

I recall Barry's FRWL score being dissed a bit on this thread, can't see why. It has a taut menace and some great cues, and of course Barry is great but some later scores had a languid feel that can slow things down a bit. That said, the soundtrack albums themselves for say TB and YOLT I am ready to accept may be better than the FRWL soundtrack album.

"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

Roger Moore 1927-2017

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Man with the Golden Gun

Napoleon Plural wrote:

I recall Barry's FRWL score being dissed a bit on this thread, can't see why. It has a taut menace and some great cues, and of course Barry is great but some later scores had a languid feel that can slow things down a bit. That said, the soundtrack albums themselves for say TB and YOLT I am ready to accept may be better than the FRWL soundtrack album.

FRWL is great, but when compared to all the others except for TMWTGG I can't see how it is in any way better than Barry's 9 other scores. The FRWL score has a more rudimentary sound rather than the more mature sound in Barry's later scores like OP and TLD.

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Man with the Golden Gun

Agreed. Barry's FRWL obviously knocks spots off its predecessor, but the full flowering of his Bond sound was still a film or two away.

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Man with the Golden Gun

Barbel wrote:

Agreed. Barry's FRWL obviously knocks spots off its predecessor, but the full flowering of his Bond sound was still a film or two away.

Yes! GF was masterfully written compared to FRWL, even if his full Bond sound hadn't been fully developed like in Thunderball.

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Man with the Golden Gun

Oh boy, this will be an interesting review of everything 'good' and potentially 'bad' in the film.

Pro's:

- Roger Moore actually managed to do a second back to back film (unlike the prior two flicks)
- Asia was an interesting change for the series
- Christopher Lee's performance is top-notch, and the main villain is terrific and comes off as one of Bond's biggest adversaries, that was, until about half way through the movie
- Maud Adams' great performance
- Great car stunt sequence
- Fun moments, one liners and entertaining scenes from Roger Moore and the supporting cast

Con's:

- Besides Hallie Berry as Jinx, Mary Goodnight played by Britt Eckland is the worst Bond girl of the entire series
- There is a very 'cheap' feel to the film in terms of directing and the production quality
- Roger Moore's performance (couldn't stand it - hitting the girl for information and some of his gimmicks)
- Roger Moore seemed bored with the movie
- Dumb and stupid karate school scenes, the guy who is 'supposedly' Bond's ally drives off without him for no apparent reason
- The naked Asian girl in the pool - Chu Mei
- The car stunt's slide whistle sound effect
- The main title song sung by LuLu
- The movie feels like it ran out of ideas about mid way through so they had to have Pepper, an elaborate boat chase and more
- Nick Nack
- The camp in the movie - I couldn't take the movie seriously at all
- 'M' telling 'Q' to shut up
- The entire final climax starting from the moment Bond arrives on the island
- A ridiculous side plot on the island involving Scaramanga's grand plan

So yeah, I am not saying I dislike this movie but it is certainly a huge disappointment on so many levels about by far my least favourite in the Roger Moore era.

1. FYEO 2. TLD 3. LTK 4. FRWL 5. OHMSS 6. TSWLM 7. GF  8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. DN 11. SP 12. MR 13. SF  14. CR 15. TB 16. LALD 17. GE 18. YOLT 19. TND 20. TMWTGG 21. TWINE 22. TND 23. DAF 24. DAD

1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Lazenby 5. Craig  6. Brosnan

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Man with the Golden Gun

Maybe with Lazenby the martial arts scenes would've had a tougher tone.

Theme song is OK imo.