26

Re: Pros and Cons: Thunderball

Even though its my favorite Bond movie I do have a few cons that i didn't post earlier.
1) Vargas was useless
2) Yes the pace was slow

It's my favorite, because i grew up the watching it and the first Bond movie I bought on my own.

Top 10 Bond Films
1. Thunderball 2. FRWL 3. Casino Royale 4. TLD 5. OHMSS 6. SkyFall 7. GF 8. TSWLM 9. GE 10. FYEO

27

Re: Pros and Cons: Thunderball

Just caught the film on TV.  Though it's one of the best in the series, I realized after watching it that I didn't really connect with it emotionally.  It's fun to ride along with Connery on his mission, but outside of a little feeling of nostalgia, I don't get that
wrapped up in it.  Perhaps it's because I've seen it so many times.  Perhaps it's because
Connery behaves either very cold and detached or just flippant throughout.  I don't know. When I first saw it in the cinema, it was just amazing.  Now...not so much.

28

Re: Pros and Cons: Thunderball

Connery looks like he's having a blast in TB. Cold and flippant yes but Bond has mostly been like that in all films.

2019 Bondathon...in progress (6) FRWL (7) GE (8) FYEO (9) TND (10) MR (11) GF (12) LALD (13) DAF (14) LTK (15) TMWTGG (16) TB (17) TSWLM (18) DAD (19) AVTAK (20) YOLT (21) QOS (22) SF (23) TWINE (24) SP

29

Re: Pros and Cons: Thunderball

IMO TB is one of the movies that MUST be seen on a big screen.

It's probably the movie which suffers the most when watched on smaller tvs.

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

30

Re: Pros and Cons: Thunderball

Higgins wrote:

IMO TB is one of the movies that MUST be seen on a big screen.

It's probably the movie which suffers the most when watched on smaller tvs.

I agree, and would add YOLT.

31

Re: Pros and Cons: Thunderball

I don't hate Thunderball but it gets the least amount of revisits for me out of the Connery films and up there in the entire series as one I have watched the least. It is enjoyable when watching but not one that screams out to me when I sit down to watch a random Bond film.

"Mango, banana and tangerine. Sugar and ackee and cocoa bean!"

32

Re: Pros and Cons: Thunderball

TB always seemed to me to feel like it had the least amount of Fleming's touch to it.  Even before I really knew about McClory and Whittingham's input, I thought, why is this a Bond film?  DN and FRWL, though adapted and changed for the screen, seemed more personal and exotic and needed Bond to work.  TB always seemed like a generic action film that Bond just happens to be in.  After I found out about how the whole story came to be, it made sense.  These three were trying to come up with a big film as opposed to a Fleming novel with Bond at the center and that's what ended up being made.

GF's huge success had a large influence on how TB was done.  Keep adding on the gadgets, make sure there is a strong female villain, have a woman sacrificed, put in more quips, make sure Bond gets equipped by Q in a funny scene, etc..

When Fleming adapted the screenplay for his novel, he brought his touch more to the story and made it more atmospheric and grisly, but the huge scope of the plot (just as in GF) minimized Bond's place in the story.  Where as spectacle and global scaled threats work great on a big screen, they also reduce Bond to an action figure as part of a much larger mission.  It's fun to watch as an action film and Connery does help maintain focus on Bond because of his sheer presence, but Fleming's actual character seems to be just a shadow to me in these big films.

33

Re: Pros and Cons: Thunderball

PROS

Everything

CONS

Nothing



People who say Connery was losing his looks must be gorgeous.  ajb007/bond

I smell a rat

34

Re: Pros and Cons: Thunderball

Bond is better small & serious IMO.
DN, FRWL, GF, TLD, LTK...

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.QOS 4.DN 5.GF/GE 6.SP 7.FRWL 8.TB/TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT

35

Re: Pros and Cons: Thunderball

chrisisall wrote:

Bond is better small & serious IMO.
DN, FRWL, GF, TLD, LTK...

Remove GF and add FYEO.

36

Re: Pros and Cons: Thunderball

Pros:

-- Relaxed Connery, still in great shape, and really settled into the role.  Panther walk, flinty sense of humor, displaying the full range of emotions, able to handle the increasing fantasy and silliness.  This is the last time he seems to genuinely be having fun.
-- Two of most beautiful women to ever grace a Bond movie -- Claudine Auger and Luciana Paluzzi, the latter of which deliciously wants to spill out of her dress frequently. 
-- Auger is so much the epitome of 1960s style; Paluzzi is essentially a female Bond, and she seems a real threat to Bond.
-- Excellent, expensive production design.  The film looks and feels stylish and "big," and it's one of the last Bond films where the locations really feel like a character themselves.
-- Junkanoo scene is so good, it's essentially redone in On Her Majesty's Secret Service.
-- Lots of great night scenes.  Too often, especially in recent Bond films, the night scenes lack genuine atmosphere.
-- A genuine sense of kink -- cross-dressing, casual sex in public spaces -- and menace -- the dispatching of various SPECTRE failures, the cold assassination of Derval and his replacement -- that makes the Bond films seem adult while still being a fantasy.
-- Great score by John Barry.
-- Lovely credits animation sihlouettes.
-- Some fine miniature work -- Goldeneye 30 years later wouldn't look as good.
-- Great clothes and cars.
-- Adolpho Celli really looks and acts the part -- he could have been given a little more to do, but he exudes true menace.
-- The jokes don't quite yet eclipse the characters -- "Yes, no well-dressed man should be without one"; "Fly here often?"; "Since you're here, do you mind giving me something to put on?"; "Where's the kickstarter?"  Even "I think he got the point" doesn't elicit the same groans it might a few years later, when the jokes became increasingly stale and predictable.
-- The scope for the Bond films keep getting bigger and bigger.
-- SPECTRE seems like a genuine large, multinational organization.
-- Great end scene with the skyhook and in spite of questionable rear projection.

Cons:

-- Tedious underwater fights and Keystone cops sped up boat fight.
-- Relatively minor continuity gaffes, but quite a few of them.
-- Poor rear projection, even for a Bond film.  (To see how to use rear projection properly, watch a Hitchcock film of the era.)
-- Count Lippe is eliminated humorously but too soon -- Guy Doleman is largely wasted.
-- Blofeld makes an appearance but seems less a presence than in earlier films.

37

Re: Pros and Cons: Thunderball

I pretty much agre on what Calvin Dyson has to say about Thunderball, in other words it's very weak:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW3uutVWf80

38

Re: Pros and Cons: Thunderball

Gassy Man wrote:

Pros:

-- Relaxed Connery, still in great shape, and really settled into the role.  Panther walk, flinty sense of humor, displaying the full range of emotions, able to handle the increasing fantasy and silliness.  This is the last time he seems to genuinely be having fun.
-- Two of most beautiful women to ever grace a Bond movie -- Claudine Auger and Luciana Paluzzi, the latter of which deliciously wants to spill out of her dress frequently. 
-- Auger is so much the epitome of 1960s style; Paluzzi is essentially a female Bond, and she seems a real threat to Bond.
-- Excellent, expensive production design.  The film looks and feels stylish and "big," and it's one of the last Bond films where the locations really feel like a character themselves.
-- Junkanoo scene is so good, it's essentially redone in On Her Majesty's Secret Service.
-- Lots of great night scenes.  Too often, especially in recent Bond films, the night scenes lack genuine atmosphere.
-- A genuine sense of kink -- cross-dressing, casual sex in public spaces -- and menace -- the dispatching of various SPECTRE failures, the cold assassination of Derval and his replacement -- that makes the Bond films seem adult while still being a fantasy.
-- Great score by John Barry.
-- Lovely credits animation sihlouettes.
-- Some fine miniature work -- Goldeneye 30 years later wouldn't look as good.
-- Great clothes and cars.
-- Adolpho Celli really looks and acts the part -- he could have been given a little more to do, but he exudes true menace.
-- The jokes don't quite yet eclipse the characters -- "Yes, no well-dressed man should be without one"; "Fly here often?"; "Since you're here, do you mind giving me something to put on?"; "Where's the kickstarter?"  Even "I think he got the point" doesn't elicit the same groans it might a few years later, when the jokes became increasingly stale and predictable.
-- The scope for the Bond films keep getting bigger and bigger.
-- SPECTRE seems like a genuine large, multinational organization.
-- Great end scene with the skyhook and in spite of questionable rear projection.

Cons:

-- Tedious underwater fights and Keystone cops sped up boat fight.
-- Relatively minor continuity gaffes, but quite a few of them.
-- Poor rear projection, even for a Bond film.  (To see how to use rear projection properly, watch a Hitchcock film of the era.)
-- Count Lippe is eliminated humorously but too soon -- Guy Doleman is largely wasted.
-- Blofeld makes an appearance but seems less a presence than in earlier films.

Great post.

I smell a rat

39

Re: Pros and Cons: Thunderball

You're a good man, Willard Whyte.  By the way, I met Jimmy Dean briefly in Colonial Williamsburg but never got the opportunity to tell him how much I enjoyed his performance in Diamonds are Forever.

40

Re: Pros and Cons: Thunderball

Yes brilliant post Gassy Man  ajb007/martini
I couldn't have put it better myself - in fact I know I couldn't put it better myself so glad you did.  ajb007/smile

1.ohmss  2.cr  3.frwl  4.ltk  5.gf  6.tswlm  7.sf  8.op  9.tld  10.dn  11.lald  12.tb  13.fyeo  14.ge  15.mr  16.yolt  17.tnd  18.avtak  19.sp  20.twine  21.qos  22.tmwtgg  23.daf  24.dad

41

Re: Pros and Cons: Thunderball

Gassy Man wrote:

You're a good man, Willard Whyte.  By the way, I met Jimmy Dean briefly in Colonial Williamsburg but never got the opportunity to tell him how much I enjoyed his performance in Diamonds are Forever.

Wow, great stuff, great film in bits is DAF.

I smell a rat

42

Re: Pros and Cons: Thunderball

Thunderball is massively underated IMO, it's Connerys favourite film he did as Bond and the dialogue/script is sparkling.

I'm not with you.

You soon will be.

Domino is the best looking Bond lady of all time  ajb007/cool

I smell a rat

43

Re: Pros and Cons: Thunderball

Willard Whyte wrote:

Thunderball is massively underated IMO, it's Connerys favourite film he did as Bond and the dialogue/script is sparkling.

I'm not with you.

You soon will be.

Domino is the best looking Bond lady of all time  ajb007/cool

+1  ajb007/martini

1.ohmss  2.cr  3.frwl  4.ltk  5.gf  6.tswlm  7.sf  8.op  9.tld  10.dn  11.lald  12.tb  13.fyeo  14.ge  15.mr  16.yolt  17.tnd  18.avtak  19.sp  20.twine  21.qos  22.tmwtgg  23.daf  24.dad

44

Re: Pros and Cons: Thunderball

+ 2  ajb007/martini

Instagram - bondclothes007

45

Re: Pros and Cons: Thunderball

Made at the height of Bondmania, TB could not have been more successful from a financial point of view and the marketing of Bond-related items reached a peak.

Artistically, it can easily be argued that there are flaws in the film (continuity, editing, etc) and that the character of Bond himself began to take a back seat to the spectacle and gadgets- though the seeds had been sown in GF- plus, of course, that the numerous underwater sequences crucial to the plot made the film slower than ideal.

To which I respond- yeah, fair enough. There ARE flaws in the continuity (Felix's trousers for example), the editing (exactly how fast is the Disco Volante supposed to be travelling at the end?), and the underwater scenes could be seen as slowing the pace.

However, this is re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. It's one of the several Bond films which were designed to be seen on the big screen (eg YOLT, TSWLM) and can't be fully appreciated at home. The photography is beautiful and sometimes jaw-dropping. The various leading ladies are stunning (my pick would be Fiona, but Domino, Patricia and Paula are all superb), and Adolfo Celi is a colourful villain. Granted, he does not beat Gert Frobe's Goldfinger (though I don't think that was the intention) but there are few who do.

John Barry tops his excellent work on GF with one of his best scores, deliberately going OTT with the title song (deliciously used instrumentally during the film) as well as the superlative "Mr Kiss Kiss Bang Bang" and making possibly his best use of "007" during the Junkanoo and the underwater battle.

Bernard Lee, Lois Maxwell, and of course Desmond Llewelyn were never better. I love Bond and Q's patter here.

Above all, Sean Connery dominates the proceedings with his totally confident yet relaxed performance as 007. He and Terence Young both know exactly what they are doing here. Have you ever noticed how much of TB consists of simply Connery walking across a room? Young and Connery have nailed this easily overlooked point which tells the audience so much about Bond's character without words and hasn't been topped since (the closest is Gilbert and Moore). Here, they are quite literally following in the footsteps of John Huston and Humphrey Bogart (who did the same thing with "The Maltese Falcon").

So, I have to say that I love TB. It may not be the best Bond film (IMHO there's no such thing) but it's at or near the top.

46

Re: Pros and Cons: Thunderball

Great writeup of Thunderball, Barbel.  In a way, Thunderball became more about the adventure than the charm of the character (unlike Goldfinger).  Goldfinger had a lot more close-up scenes of Connery, I remember.  TB was trying to be an epic in a similar sense that TSWLM was.  Connery's Bond here still has his charm, even if the nature of this film sought to subdue it.

47

Re: Pros and Cons: Thunderball

TB was Young attempting an OTT Bond, which mainly worked, but his forte was slightly smaller films. See Wait Until Dark & Red Sun.

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.QOS 4.DN 5.GF/GE 6.SP 7.FRWL 8.TB/TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT

48

Re: Pros and Cons: Thunderball

There's a lot to say about Thunderball. It defenitely has a lot of pros and cons, but long story short. I think its defenitely 'lower half- top 10 worthy.

Pros:
- Fiona Volpe is one of the best additions
- Hottest line up of Bond girls ever
- Connery has some hilarious lines in this movie, gotta love the guy.
- The way the plot seemed of world importance, with all the 007's

Cons:
- So much underwater scenes it's gets jarring
- suffers from slow pacing in parts
- the STUPID and rediciously sped up rear projection in the Disco Volante, one of the worst thing about this one!

And short story long: I personally shared all my thoughts on Thunderball in great detail in this video:  (For those who care ajb007/smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqEnGi5Ools

Better known as DutchBondFan on YouTube. My 007 movie reviews:  Recapping 007   
YouTube channel  Support my channel on Patreon  Twitter   Facebook fanpage

49

Re: Pros and Cons: Thunderball

I think personally that Thunderball is the best of the Connery films.

this one or Dr No

50

Re: Pros and Cons: Thunderball

Pros:
Last time Connery gave a damn about Bond.
John Barry score.
Beautiful Carribbean locations.

Cons:
Vague, lumbering, unfocused plot.
Underwater sequences outstay their welcome very quickly.
Some general technical shoddiness not seen in the series prior to this film

.