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Re: Pros and Cons: The Spy Who Loved Me

"introduce the public to new technologies which aren't in the public domain which now we look back on and take for granted"

Look at the stoneage computer (IBM ?) that Bond uses to punch in the submarine targets  ajb007/tongue

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Spy Who Loved Me

Grindelwald wrote:

"introduce the public to new technologies which aren't in the public domain which now we look back on and take for granted"

Look at the stoneage computer (IBM ?) that Bond uses to punch in the submarine targets  ajb007/tongue

Not an expert of technology.  My mate had one of them, his first PC. 

I have owned a Spectrum 48k machine, and upgraded to a Commadore 64k, and I thought the "Ghostbusters" game release in 1984 was immense.

Sometimes it took games 30 minutes to load from a cassette player, oh how things have changed.

FRWl, CR, OHMSS, TSWLM, GF, SF, TLD,  LTK, TND,  FYEO, OP,TWINE, GE, LALD, TB, SPECTRE, DN, YOLT, TMWTGG, QOS, MR, DAF, DAD, AVTAK.

"Do you expect me to talk?  "No Mister Bond I expect you to die"

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Spy Who Loved Me

The quintessential Moore film.

Pros:
.Probably Moore's best performance. He's great in all seven.
.The iconic PTS.
.Titles and theme.
.The huge and epic production.
.Jaws.
.The scenes in Egypt are great.
.I really like all the characters.
.Naomi.
.Sardinia is beautiful.
.The Lotus is classic.
.The finale is amazing.

Cons:
.Bach defines wooden. She's hot though.

Nobody does it better. So true.

10/10 ajb007/martini

1. Connery 2. Moore 3. Dalton 4. Brosnan 5. Craig 6. Lazenby

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Spy Who Loved Me

WOW! After the campiness of DAF, LALD, and TMWTGG, TSWLM is a refreshing change of pace. The tone is very reminiscent of the 60s Bonds with seriousness and dry humour. Moore gives his best best performance in any of his films and Hamlisch's score, while not to the same calibur as one of Barry's, suits the film really well, giving it a unique flavour. Anya's a great, strong female lead, Ken Adam's sets are amazing. Everything is brilliant, almost perfect. The only con I can think of is that Anya is easily captured by Stromberg, tarnishing her strong image. But it hardly ruins the film. Definitely Moore's best entry in the series, and one of the series' best.

1. CR 2 OHMSS 3. TSWLM 4. TLD 5. SF 6. FRwL
7. GE 8. FYEO 9. LtK 10. TMwtGG 11. AVtaK 12.OP
13. DN 14. GF 15. TND 16. SP 17. TB 18. TWiNE
19. MR 20. YOLT 21. LaLD 22. QoS 23. DAD 24. DAF

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Spy Who Loved Me

^ Good timing. Watched this the other night. TSWLM for me gets better and better and while I think OP suits Moore's comfortable approach TSWLM is his best Bond performance. I can understand why it's Moore's too.

Moore really played the role quite steadily almost buttoned down. His whole set of reactions at the Mojave club (trepidation towards Anya, getting on with the job, answering the marriage question) is IMO deeper than his performance in FYEO.

While FYEO is called out as Moore being more badass (kicking car off the cliff) - TSWLM has quite a few moments "What a helpful chap." and the shooting of Stromberg.

Bond's killing of Stromberg is one of the most satisfying villain deaths.

1. TWINE  2. FYEO  3. MR  4. TLD  5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS  7. DN  8. OP  9. AVTAK  10. TMWTGG  11. QoS 12. GE  13. CR  14. TB  15. FRWL  16. LTK  17. GF  18. SF  19. LaLD  20. YOLT  21. TND  22. DAD  23. DAF.

"If you'll forgive me, that's a little too scented for my palate."

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Spy Who Loved Me

heartbroken_mr_drax wrote:

^ Good timing. Watched this the other night. TSWLM for me gets better and better and while I think OP suits Moore's comfortable approach TSWLM is his best Bond performance. I can understand why it's Moore's too.

Moore really played the role quite steadily almost buttoned down. His whole set of reactions at the Mojave club (trepidation towards Anya, getting on with the job, answering the marriage question) is IMO deeper than his performance in FYEO.

While FYEO is called out as Moore being more badass (kicking car off the cliff) - TSWLM has quite a few moments "What a helpful chap." and the shooting of Stromberg.

Bond's killing of Stromberg is one of the most satisfying villain deaths.

His performance in TSWLM is excellent, but I think FYEO is up there too. The scene where he comforts Melina on the sled is something I can't picture any other Bond actor doing so well.

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Spy Who Loved Me

Matt S wrote:

The scene where he comforts Melina on the sled is something I can't picture any other Bond actor doing so well.

ajb007/martini 100%

1. TWINE  2. FYEO  3. MR  4. TLD  5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS  7. DN  8. OP  9. AVTAK  10. TMWTGG  11. QoS 12. GE  13. CR  14. TB  15. FRWL  16. LTK  17. GF  18. SF  19. LaLD  20. YOLT  21. TND  22. DAD  23. DAF.

"If you'll forgive me, that's a little too scented for my palate."

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Spy Who Loved Me

How do you think TSWLM would've turned out if SPECTRE and Blofeld had been allowed to be used as the film's antagonists? Stromberg was a off brand Blofeld himself and the role would likely have been recast for Blofeld (no Pleasance, Savalas or Gray reprisals). Bond did get to kill Stromberg though. Shooting him 3x, seated. Yikes! Like it was personal or something.   ajb007/lol

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Spy Who Loved Me

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but when Roger goes to execute Stromberg, the camera cuts to Stromberg everytime he gets shot. A similar thing happened in The Man With The Golden Gun when he said that the sights are a bit off.
Clever bit of editing to conceal Roger's flinch when firing a gun.

a reasonable rate of return

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Spy Who Loved Me

Dirty Punker wrote:

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but when Roger goes to execute Stromberg, the camera cuts to Stromberg everytime he gets shot. A similar thing happened in The Man With The Golden Gun when he said that the sights are a bit off.
Clever bit of editing to conceal Roger's flinch when firing a gun.

Roger never liked guns or explosions. He wore earplugs, when filming the big battle scene and thd destruction of Atlantis.

Have you ever heard of the Emancipation Proclamation?"

" I don't listen to hip hop!"

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Spy Who Loved Me

You can also see him flinch in the gunbarrel, there's no cut in those scenes!

1. TWINE  2. FYEO  3. MR  4. TLD  5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS  7. DN  8. OP  9. AVTAK  10. TMWTGG  11. QoS 12. GE  13. CR  14. TB  15. FRWL  16. LTK  17. GF  18. SF  19. LaLD  20. YOLT  21. TND  22. DAD  23. DAF.

"If you'll forgive me, that's a little too scented for my palate."

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Spy Who Loved Me

In the Live and Let Die version of the gunbarrel he flinches before he fires the gun.
In the Spy Who Loved Me version of the gunbarrel he flinches as the blood starts dribbling down.
I never noticed that before.

a reasonable rate of return

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Spy Who Loved Me

heartbroken_mr_drax wrote:

You can also see him flinch in the gunbarrel, there's no cut in those scenes!

Kind of silly considering they probably added the gun shot noise later in post-production. Why have him fire the gun at all during the gunbarrel walk?

Check my instagram problemeliminator for 007 related posts


1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Spy Who Loved Me

Firemass wrote:
heartbroken_mr_drax wrote:

You can also see him flinch in the gunbarrel, there's no cut in those scenes!

Kind of silly considering they probably added the gun shot noise later in post-production. Why have him fire the gun at all during the gunbarrel walk?

Isn't that what they always did in the movies? I wish they re-recorded gunshot noises like the people in Die Hard 1 did.

a reasonable rate of return

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Spy Who Loved Me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZgJqiM … nan-Mw3DH_

40 today  ajb007/martini  ajb007/bond  ajb007/cheers

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Spy Who Loved Me

this was the first Bond film I saw in the theatre, so I'm biased
I'd only ever seen fragments of Goldfinger and Diamonds.... before, on teevee
so I assumed this is what Bond films are supposed to look like


PROS
-the Bond film perfected:
in the absence of a Fleming plot, they return to the formula established in Goldfinger and the plot from the first all-original film You Only Live Twice, and various specific scenes from the first six films at least (not sure about the next three), yet they blend it all seamlessly and improve upon the originals in many cases, summing up to an idealised Bond plot-structure at an epic scale. Worked so well they remade it immediately as Moonraker, and revisited it again and again in the Brosnan era

-Ken Adam's best work: the tanker interior and the villain's underwater HQ, either one of which is equal to the volcano HQ, but also minor sets like the hotel in Sardinia, and Gogol's office, and the escape capsule

-Anya may be the sexiest Bond girl ever, physically, dress-sense, the way she moves, and the way the character does her job. In Wood's novelisation we learn she has undergone recent training in seduction and satisfaction techniques

-must be coincidence, but this looks a lot like Star Wars which came out the same year: desert scenes near the beginning, with classical ruins, the lotus resembles Luke's landspeeder more than it does a car, Stromberg's underwater HQ with all its shiny surfaces, from which the damsel in distress must be rescued, all those subs and tankers and other mechanical toys, etc etc ... did Brocolli know what Lucas was working on?

-Bond spends a lot of time in naval uniform, including much of the tanker sequence

-I think both this and For Your Eyes Only borrow from Colonel Sun: in this case, Bond teams up with a sexy communist agent (whose name even has the same initials as Ariadne Alexandrou) and they first meet in a restaurant, then theres a chase scene through classical ruins (albeit Egyptian not Greek), followed by island hopping in the Mediterranean (albeit Italian not Greek)


CONS
-aside from Carly Simon's song, I don't like the music in this one either. The synthy disco theme is distracting during a couple of major action sequences. Hamlisch sounds like Giorgio Moroder here, hard to believe he also did The Sting soundtrack four years earlier, with all that wonderful Joplin music, but at least this proves he has range

-some stoopid distracting jokes and musical cues

-M's field HQ. I get that it was needed for some plot points to come together mid-film but I do not believe a second of it

-Barbara Bach is not a good actress nor is her character is written to be as impressive as we are meant to believe. At least she doesn't claim to be a nuclear physicist. Maybe I need to rewatch Caveman with her and Ringo to get a better sense of her acting chops?


how would this work if Stromberg were renamed Blofeld? yes Bonds final scene with him would work, maybe more satisfactorily than the end of Diamonds... , but what about the scene where Bond poses as a marine biologist? Blofeld would have to be really really really bad at recognising faces for that scene to work. No wonder he's always pressing the button to kill the next underling over during those tense meetings.

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Spy Who Loved Me

caractacus potts wrote:

in the absence of a Fleming plot, they return to the formula established in Goldfinger and the plot from the first all-original film You Only Live Twice

YOLT isn't quite all-original, there are still bits of Fleming in there- less than the first four films, granted, and the one after, but they are there.

caractacus potts wrote:

various specific scenes from the first six films at least (not sure about the next three), yet they blend it all seamlessly and improve upon the originals in many cases, summing up to an idealised Bond plot-structure at an epic scale. Worked so well they remade it immediately as Moonraker, and revisited it again and again in the Brosnan era

Absolutely.

caractacus potts wrote:

-Ken Adam's best work: the tanker interior and the villain's underwater HQ, either one of which is equal to the volcano HQ, but also minor sets like the hotel in Sardinia, and Gogol's office, and the escape capsule

Again, totally agree.


caractacus potts wrote:

-must be coincidence, but this looks a lot like Star Wars which came out the same year: desert scenes near the beginning, with classical ruins, the lotus resembles Luke's landspeeder more than it does a car, Stromberg's underwater HQ with all its shiny surfaces, from which the damsel in distress must be rescued, all those subs and tankers and other mechanical toys, etc etc ... did Brocolli know what Lucas was working on?

Good points

caractacus potts wrote:

-I think both this and For Your Eyes Only borrow from Colonel Sun: in this case, Bond teams up with a sexy communist agent (whose name even has the same initials as Ariadne Alexandrou) and they first meet in a restaurant, then theres a chase scene through classical ruins (albeit Egyptian not Greek), followed by island hopping in the Mediterranean (albeit Italian not Greek)

Agreed, and I remember thinking this at the time!

caractacus potts wrote:

CONS
-aside from Carly Simon's song, I don't like the music in this one either. The synthy disco theme is distracting during a couple of major action sequences. Hamlisch sounds like Giorgio Moroder here, hard to believe he also did The Sting soundtrack four years earlier, with all that wonderful Joplin music, but at least this proves he has range

In the absence of John Barry,  I think Hamlisch did a good job.


caractacus potts wrote:

-Barbara Bach is not a good actress nor is her character is written to be as impressive as we are meant to believe. At least she doesn't claim to be a nuclear physicist. Maybe I need to rewatch Caveman with her and Ringo to get a better sense of her acting chops?

Well, she's better than Ringo... but I'd put large money on her not being able to drum as well!*

* cue jokes about Ringo's drumming! ajb007/lol

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Spy Who Loved Me

Did Beckmann and Markowitz try to cheat Stromberg , is that why he shows them the penalty (his secretary killed by shark) of trying to con him , to scare would be traitors ?

.....but then he screws them over and cancels their payments

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Spy Who Loved Me

Barbel wrote:
caractacus potts wrote:

in the absence of a Fleming plot, they return to the formula established in Goldfinger and the plot from the first all-original film You Only Live Twice

YOLT isn't quite all-original, there are still bits of Fleming in there- less than the first four films, granted, and the one after, but they are there.

caractacus potts wrote:

various specific scenes from the first six films at least (not sure about the next three), yet they blend it all seamlessly and improve upon the originals in many cases, summing up to an idealised Bond plot-structure at an epic scale. Worked so well they remade it immediately as Moonraker, and revisited it again and again in the Brosnan era

Absolutely.

caractacus potts wrote:

-Ken Adam's best work: the tanker interior and the villain's underwater HQ, either one of which is equal to the volcano HQ, but also minor sets like the hotel in Sardinia, and Gogol's office, and the escape capsule

Again, totally agree.


caractacus potts wrote:

-must be coincidence, but this looks a lot like Star Wars which came out the same year: desert scenes near the beginning, with classical ruins, the lotus resembles Luke's landspeeder more than it does a car, Stromberg's underwater HQ with all its shiny surfaces, from which the damsel in distress must be rescued, all those subs and tankers and other mechanical toys, etc etc ... did Brocolli know what Lucas was working on?

Good points

caractacus potts wrote:

-I think both this and For Your Eyes Only borrow from Colonel Sun: in this case, Bond teams up with a sexy communist agent (whose name even has the same initials as Ariadne Alexandrou) and they first meet in a restaurant, then theres a chase scene through classical ruins (albeit Egyptian not Greek), followed by island hopping in the Mediterranean (albeit Italian not Greek)

Agreed, and I remember thinking this at the time!

caractacus potts wrote:

CONS
-aside from Carly Simon's song, I don't like the music in this one either. The synthy disco theme is distracting during a couple of major action sequences. Hamlisch sounds like Giorgio Moroder here, hard to believe he also did The Sting soundtrack four years earlier, with all that wonderful Joplin music, but at least this proves he has range

In the absence of John Barry,  I think Hamlisch did a good job.


caractacus potts wrote:

-Barbara Bach is not a good actress nor is her character is written to be as impressive as we are meant to believe. At least she doesn't claim to be a nuclear physicist. Maybe I need to rewatch Caveman with her and Ringo to get a better sense of her acting chops?

Well, she's better than Ringo... but I'd put large money on her not being able to drum as well!*

* cue jokes about Ringo's drumming! ajb007/lol

In the Pasthenon of the terrible she tends out, there is some stiff competition though...

Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.

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Re: Pros and Cons: The Spy Who Loved Me

After my latest viewing, this film gets a 10/10 from me.  Awesome film.

Stromberg prob wouldn't end up in my Top 5 Bond villains, but I think he does a decent enough job.

"Hostile takeovers.  Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD  2. TND  3. GF  4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later