101

Re: Pros and Cons: Goldfinger

Connery really struck gold with GF.

"Hostile takeovers.  Shall we?"

1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. OP 5. TSWLM 6. MR 7. TWINE 8. TMWTGG 9. OHMSS 10. FRWL 11. L&LD 12. SF 13. LtK 14. YOLT 15. DN 16. QoS 17. DAD 18. AVTAK 19. CR 20. TB 21. FYEO 22. DAF (SP to be included later; GE to be rewatched and re-ranked)
1) Brosnan 2) Dalton 3) Moore 4) Connery 5) Lazenby and Craig

102

Re: Pros and Cons: Goldfinger

Just re-watched this on my BluRay marathon...

Pros:

- PTS
- Connery still looks great, nice haircut
- Pussy Galore is very sexy
- Auric Goldfinger is a classic villain, well acted by Gert Frobe even with dubbing
- Plot is interesting and different
- Ken Adam's sets are great, especially depository - wow
- Oddjob is cool
- Switzerland is beautiful
- Golf scenes, meeting of Pussy are done very well
- Laser scene is tense, well shot, Laser looks impressive - well acted by Connery
- Connery's hilarious towelling jump-suit
- Title song - iconic
- "Classic" elements of the film - decent PTS, larger than life villain, henchman etc.
- The way SC says "Pussy"
- Improvement on soundtrack from FRWL

Cons:

- Becomes boring after meeting Pussy, very boring
- "Explain the plot" is dragged out for far too long
- Goons are cliched, humour is out of place (even though "What's with that trick pool table" makes me laugh)
- Goldfinger gets away on the plane to encounter Bond again! Stupid!
- Gassing scenes are  ajb007/crap
- Overuse of sets in some scenes are obvious, too much green screen at times - particularly in Miami
- Clearly no body in Lincoln that gets crushed
- Dodgy plane model
- "Beetles without earmuffs" is a very strange line - is Bond a granddad?
- American locations are dull
- Bond doesn't really do much at all after the fights in the woods - adds to how it becomes boring

Observations:

Is that Honey Ryder's dubbed voice, the hotel lady in FRWL turning up again to dub the girl in the PTS?
Major differences between Guy Hamilton and Terence Young, less sophisticated.

BluRay:

Not as amazing looking as DN and FRWL, seems as if the filming generally in GF is not as well done, duller locations may have something to do with this.  Still good though.

Overall:

I love elements of GF, but over-time am finding myself enjoying the film less and less. It seems to be dating and it isn't re-watching well - I find myself getting bored. Still, it is the classic Bond and I understand and can appreciate its place in the series.

Last edited by heartbroken_mr_drax (17th Nov 2015 10:04)

1. TWINE  2. FYEO  3. MR  4. TLD  5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS  7. DN  8. OP  9. AVTAK  10. TMWTGG  11. QoS 12. GE  13. CR  14. TB  15. FRWL  16. LTK  17. GF  18. SF  19. LaLD  20. YOLT  21. TND  22. DAD  23. DAF.

"If you'll forgive me, that's a little too scented for my palate."

103

Re: Pros and Cons: Goldfinger

Funny how GF hasn't aged well with you, oh well, we all experience Bond differently.

"Hostile takeovers.  Shall we?"

1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. OP 5. TSWLM 6. MR 7. TWINE 8. TMWTGG 9. OHMSS 10. FRWL 11. L&LD 12. SF 13. LtK 14. YOLT 15. DN 16. QoS 17. DAD 18. AVTAK 19. CR 20. TB 21. FYEO 22. DAF (SP to be included later; GE to be rewatched and re-ranked)
1) Brosnan 2) Dalton 3) Moore 4) Connery 5) Lazenby and Craig

104

Re: Pros and Cons: Goldfinger

The first part is simply brilliant - PTS, theme song, Miami, Golf game, Switzerland and on plane to US. The backgroud score when Oddjob captures 007 and TM is awesome.

The US parts may appear slow now but it has its moments. We also learn how clever GF is. Once 007 reaches Fort Knox, movie picks up again.

Overall, this is an amazing film which looks brilliant on BR.

105

Re: Pros and Cons: Goldfinger

ajb007/cheers  watched it myself only a couple of nights ago. Great film.  ajb007/martini
and as you say, it looks fantastic on Bluray.

“I didn’t lose a friend, I just realised I never had one.”

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Re: Pros and Cons: Goldfinger

Thunderpussy wrote:

ajb007/cheers  watched it myself only a couple of nights ago. Great film.  ajb007/martini
and as you say, it looks fantastic on Bluray.

The BR has the special feature "On tour with the Aston Martin DB5" which is interesting as well  ajb007/cheers

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Re: Pros and Cons: Goldfinger

Ok so I've just watched Goldfinger, and have forgotten how good a film it is.   

Interesting point in the film that it's the first time another 00 is mention not once but twice, and thats 008.

The only plot question mark is why does Bond make Tilly run from the safety of a bullet proof car, with a metal rear protective screen, into the woods where Oddjob throws his hat.  Surely she would have been safer to stay with Bond just doesn't make sense to me.

The first Bond movie I ever saw in a double header at the cinema with Thunderball in 1966, those two films are the reason i became a James Bond fan.

FRWl, OHMSS, CR, TSWLM, GF, SF, TLD,  LTK, TND, DN, FYEO, OP,TWINE, GE, LALD, TMWTGG, QOS, SPECTRE, YOLT, TB, MR, DAF, DAD, AVTAK.

"Do you expect me to talk?  "No Mister Bond I expect you to die"

108

Re: Pros and Cons: Goldfinger

am747 wrote:

The first part is simply brilliant - PTS, theme song, Miami, Golf game, Switzerland and on plane to US. The backgroud score when Oddjob captures 007 and TM is awesome.

The US parts may appear slow now but it has its moments. We also learn how clever GF is. Once 007 reaches Fort Knox, movie picks up again.

Overall, this is an amazing film which looks brilliant on BR.

I like it a lot, but it really does sag. Also Bond is pretty much incarcerated for much of the film and has little impact on the outcome

Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.

109

Re: Pros and Cons: Goldfinger

am747 wrote:

The first part is simply brilliant - PTS, theme song, Miami, Golf game, Switzerland and on plane to US. The backgroud score when Oddjob captures 007 and TM is awesome.

The US parts may appear slow now but it has its moments. We also learn how clever GF is. Once 007 reaches Fort Knox, movie picks up again.

Overall, this is an amazing film which looks brilliant on BR.

I like it a lot, but it really does sag. Also Bond is pretty much incarcerated for much of the film and has little impact on the outcome

Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.

110

Re: Pros and Cons: Goldfinger

It's a true classic,  and quite well redone from the book. Loved the road trip scenes,  but then I loved that section of the book, bond checking engine oil?! 
It may sag a little,  but bond being held prisoner works better for the film than bond becoming goldfingers secretary and taking notes as in the book.

It was either that.....or the priesthood

111

Re: Pros and Cons: Goldfinger

I will say, as a female, is lovely to see  Bond pursue a lady who was age appropriate *maybe even older SHOCKER* than him.

I've always wanted to have Christmas in Turkey

112

Re: Pros and Cons: Goldfinger

VesperMelograno wrote:

I will say, as a female, is lovely to see  Bond pursue a lady who was age appropriate *maybe even older SHOCKER* than him.

Agreed - helps that the chemistry between Blackman/Connery was golden too. The only tarnish is the forcing and lesbian sub-plot - but hey, it's an old movie.

1. TWINE  2. FYEO  3. MR  4. TLD  5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS  7. DN  8. OP  9. AVTAK  10. TMWTGG  11. QoS 12. GE  13. CR  14. TB  15. FRWL  16. LTK  17. GF  18. SF  19. LaLD  20. YOLT  21. TND  22. DAD  23. DAF.

"If you'll forgive me, that's a little too scented for my palate."

113

Re: Pros and Cons: Goldfinger

heartbroken_mr_drax wrote:

- Becomes boring after meeting Pussy, very boring
- American locations are dull
- Bond doesn't really do much at all after the fights in the woods - adds to how it becomes boring

I love elements of GF, but over-time am finding myself enjoying the film less and less. It seems to be dating and it isn't re-watching well - I find myself getting bored. Still, it is the classic Bond and I understand and can appreciate its place in the series.

I feel very much the same way about GF, especially Bond's lack of real involvement in the story and how much everything drags after they get to Kentucky. Once Bond is taken prisoner the film loses all of its momentum.

I hesitate to call it "dated" because I do not agree with the concept that films "age," but it is certainly one of the most overrated films in the franchise.

1.TSWLM 2.LTK 3.YOLT 4.OHMSS 5.TWINE 6.LALD 7.MR 8.GE 9.DN 10.FRWL
Bond: Pierce Brosnan  Villain: Hugo Drax  Girl: Pam Bouvier

114

Re: Pros and Cons: Goldfinger

Still Number 1 in my rankings.  ajb007/martini

"Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."

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Re: Pros and Cons: Goldfinger

The golden Bond film.

Pros:
.Connery looks like he's having fun.
.Gert Frobe.
.Oddjob.
.Pussy Galore.
.Score and theme song.
.PTS is iconic.
.Everything from the gunbarrel to Pussy's intro is fantastic.
.The DB5.
.One of my favorite M scenes.
.The crushed car is stupid but hilarious.
."Are you having lunch at the WH too?".
.The fact that Hamilton says you're not supposed to take it seriously makes it easer to ignore the ridiculousness.

Cons:
.The back projection during the Miami scenes. I know Connery wasn't available but it looks lazy.
.Finale is a little silly.
.The second half isn't as good as the first. Its still entertaining so i cant complain too much.

9.5/10 ajb007/martini . While not as great as the Young films, it's hard not to like this movie.

1. Connery 2. Moore 3. Dalton 4. Brosnan 5. Craig 6. Lazenby

116

Re: Pros and Cons: Goldfinger

My only con would be Tilly Masterson. She's so unforgettable and honestly, unlikable. And she's a lousy shot!

Her sister Jill was quite likeable. But Tilly was just rather plain and forgetful.

117

Re: Pros and Cons: Goldfinger

because of two of the changes from the novel, Tilly actually has no function in the plot

in the book:
1. Jill is murdered after Bond leaves her, Tilly is the one to tell Bond what happened. If filmed that way, the murder would have happened offscreen. The filmmakers rightly saw the cinematic potential of painting a girl all in gold, thus there is nothing for her sister to tell when she finally meets Bond
2. she is in the story all the way til Fort Knox, and would appear to be the primary Bondgirl of the adventure until Pussy Galore is introduced, much later than in the movie. The filmmakers chose to introduce Pussy much earlier, and give her many more scenes, again correctly (especially since she was being played by TV star Honor Blackman). Also Tilly was a lesbian too and both females were more interested in each other than either was in Bond. The filmmakers chose to leave that aspect out altogether, the cowards.

so that means all that was left for her to do in the film was the iconic race across the alps, great visuals, iconic Bond moment, but adds nothing to the plot. Fleming himself repeated a near identical scene in OHMSS (he liked women who could drive crazy sportscars, Domino is also a crazy driver in her book), so even that scene did not need to be in the Goldfinger film.

118

Re: Pros and Cons: Goldfinger

A golden Bond film for sure, but just not as much in my opinion.

Pro's:
* Connery's epic performance
* The first half of the movie - just pure gold right throughout, especially in Switzerland
* The introduction of the Aston Martin DB5
* Goldfinger and Odd Job's performances
* The amazing car chase in the dead of dark
* A hell of a great build up
* Honour Blackman's performance
* The entire plot to times Goldfinger's gold value by x10
* The score by John Barry shines yet again
* The golf scene in the UK - very suspenseful and funny at times

Cons:

* As someone above mentioned, it wasn't as good as the previous two films directed by Terrence Young
* Bond has no real ally throughout. This is tough considering he had heaps in the previous films, and here it really feels like he's on his own. Leiter doesn't count as he is not even with Bond most of the time
* The second half of the film can be very slow, and at one or two moments a little boring
* Bad plot holes that I couldn't understand - Goldfinger gassing the room *after having explained his plan
* Goldfinger's death on a plane
* I felt like Bond and Galore didn't have much chemistry as the previous films
* Tilly Masterson. Really bad personality and bad character, at least compared with her amazing sister
* The car chase was great, but the fact that Bond did not escape scott free was a letdown, compared with future car scenes

I would give it a 7/10. I would put Dr No ahead, and From Russia With Love as the 'perfect' Connery film.

Last edited by Wadsy (22nd May 2017 09:43)

1. FYEO 2. OHMSS 3. TLD 4. FRWL 5. LTK 6. TSWLM 7. CR 8. OP  9. GF 10. DN 11. MR 12. SP 13. LALD 14. QOS 15. TB 16. SF 17. TMWTGG 18. GE 19. YOLT 20. AVTAK 21. TND 22. TWINE 23. DAF 24. DAD

1. Dalton 2. Connery 3. Moore 4. Craig 5. Lazenby  6. Brosnan

119

Re: Pros and Cons: Goldfinger

Wadsy wrote:

Goldfinger gassing the room *after having explained his plan

Then we wouldn't have heard "Hey! What's with that trick pool table!?"

1. TWINE  2. FYEO  3. MR  4. TLD  5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS  7. DN  8. OP  9. AVTAK  10. TMWTGG  11. QoS 12. GE  13. CR  14. TB  15. FRWL  16. LTK  17. GF  18. SF  19. LaLD  20. YOLT  21. TND  22. DAD  23. DAF.

"If you'll forgive me, that's a little too scented for my palate."

120

Re: Pros and Cons: Goldfinger

I don't get it? lol

1. FYEO 2. OHMSS 3. TLD 4. FRWL 5. LTK 6. TSWLM 7. CR 8. OP  9. GF 10. DN 11. MR 12. SP 13. LALD 14. QOS 15. TB 16. SF 17. TMWTGG 18. GE 19. YOLT 20. AVTAK 21. TND 22. TWINE 23. DAF 24. DAD

1. Dalton 2. Connery 3. Moore 4. Craig 5. Lazenby  6. Brosnan

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Re: Pros and Cons: Goldfinger

I think it's there for US, the audience, not everyone has read the book and it helps to set up in the mind.
What this gas will do to the thousands of men, women and children  living near by. ?

“I didn’t lose a friend, I just realised I never had one.”

122

Re: Pros and Cons: Goldfinger

Thunderpussy wrote:

I think it's there for US, the audience, not everyone has read the book and it helps to set up in the mind.
What this gas will do to the thousands of men, women and children  living near by. ?

Blaming it on the US? Bond films never give the Americans a break!  ajb007/wink

123

Re: Pros and Cons: Goldfinger

PROS
- first proper precredits sequence, and its an expanded version of the book's Chapter 1: "Reflections in a Double Bourbon"
(I only recently figured that out)

- the dancing girl (Nadja Regin) and Dink (Margaret Nolan), both of whom deserve mention in this other thread. They both also appeared in episodes of Danger Man, where they got more to do.
Note, when Bond phones Felix to tell him the girl is dead, meaning Jill, Felix assumes he's gone off with Dink!


- Barry's score really shwangs!
- the big swaggery brass sound invokes the glamour of early60s RatPack America more than any of the actual locations, and then the brass fanfare dissolves into sweeping romantic strings giving the film the air of escapist fantasy. Like a Disney film for grown-ups who drink martinis and pick up dames.
- the way the Bond theme is weaved into the title song between notes, and elements of the title song are weaved into the main score all through the film in many different contexts, resolving into a variety of moods.
- Bassey's phrasing, particularly on the syllable "Gowld" ... her voice is imitating a muted trumpet imitating a human voice, thus adding to the brassiness of the song.

- the transition from "simply shocking" into the two notes that open the title tune. This transition from pre-credits to credits is one of the most important elements of the movies and always gives me thrill when done right

- the Golden Girl image made for the central element in a slick marketing campaign, in the main credits, in the posters, the soundtrack lp, the PAN paperback tie-in edition ... I wonder if there were Golden Girl lunchboxes?
- even though its Shirley Eaton who gets painted gold in the film, the voluptuous Margaret Nolan was a better choice to model the look for the three minutes worth of main titles. Very three dimensional, with lots of interesting shadows and highlights!


- Bond has dinner with M and insults his choice of wine. We still haven't got a proper Blades adaptation to film, but they did give us this.
First expert adviser to deliver boring exposition too, and of course Bond interrupts with wisecracks.

- first proper Q scene. There are several iconic lines just in this one scene.

- first proper actress as a Bond girl. No need to dub Honour Blackman's dialog.
and, by giving up her role in the Avengers, Blackman created a job opening for Diana Rigg, who would in turn become the second proper actress to play a lead Bond girl

- paymasters lurking in the background ... its not SPECTRE, but we have to guess who it could be. Presumably Red China, but if Klebb defected from SMERSH to join SPECTRE and create greater conflict in the world, then maybe the mysterious Chinese paymasters are not what they seem either?

- Goldfinger enjoys the warmest wittiest rapport with Bond I think of all the Bondvillains. Much of the iconic dialog in this film is the two characters chatting quite nicely, neither ever losing his cool.
-the whole film is filled with highly quotable dialog, as well as the Q scene and the Goldfinger scenes, all the scenes with Pussy. The quotability is one reason this film is so highly regarded.

- despite the fact Bond himself does very little in the second half, the film continues to be amusing stylish and fascinating. Contrast with the next film, where there is a lot of plot in the second half yet it drags.

- some major Ken Adam setpieces, including Goldfinger's billiard room, and Fort Knox. That Fort Knox interior is huge!
- and that billiard room is one of the elements that made me a Bondfan in the first place.

- film fades directly from Bond seducing Pussy to the shot of planes "gassing" Fort Knox. It's not til the end of the Fort Knox sequence that Felix tells us what happened between these two scenes, and its just a hint. I like that it's left up to our imagination to fill in that gap, yet there is direct cause and effect and precisely because of that clinch in the barn, Bond has once again saved the world!



CONS
- it's starting to get silly.

- poor scenery for a Bond film, aside from a quick drive in the Alps. PostWar American sprawl is not up to James Bond's usual standards. (this is the kind of landscape I watch Bondfilms to escape from!!) We even see Felix walking out of a Kentucky Fried Chicken!!

- what is Jill's motivation for betraying Goldfinger? seems willfully selfdestructive

- Tilly Masterton's part has been so reduced as to be pointless, aside from racing the Aston through the switchbacks.
We could at least have watched her interact with Pussy for a few scenes, to show the audience why Pussy is so immune to Bond's charm? I would like to see Bond's face as he watches the two of them get suspiciously friendly. Itd make him way madder than whatever the villain is up to.

- who is the "opposite number" who also possesses a License to Kill? that line is like a remnant from an earlier script that didnt get erased.

- why does Goldfinger kill the hoods after revealing his evil plan? that was a very expensive looking presentation, completely wasted on an audience doomed to die immediately. And why bother seperating out Solo to kill him seperately? I think he actually outlives the other hoods by ten minutes because he chose to walk out on the deal, and Goldfinger goes to additional expense to kill him too, and risks that he might escape.
We often discuss all the small fixes that were made to Fleming's plot to make a better film, but this makes no sense.
Similarly, by encouraging Pussy to flirt with Bond for the benefit of the CIA watchers, Goldfinger in that one move sets up his own downfall.


- one more, not mine but an interesting point from James Chapman's License to Thrill: A Cultural History of James Bond.
Chapman points out the Golden Girl is a necrophiliac fantasy (pgs 102-103).
There's a lot of objectification of women in these films, but this instance is an all-time extreme and disturbingly literal objectification. An insight certainly worthy of further discussion!

____________________________________________________________________
EDIT: discussion of the main titles in general in another thread made me think more about the importance of this film's main titles in particular, and thus also Barry's music.
Watching Thunderball made me appreciate how the stylish pacing of this film more than compensates for its relative lack of action.

Last edited by caractacus potts (12th Jan 2020 18:15)

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Re: Pros and Cons: Goldfinger

caractacus potts wrote:

- who is the "opposite number" who also possesses a License to Kill?

Mr Ling.


https://i.postimg.cc/18F2BrXQ/GW320-H240.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/gnQ13TYs/images.jpg

125

Re: Pros and Cons: Goldfinger

heartbroken_mr_drax wrote:

Is that Honey Ryder's dubbed voice, the hotel lady in FRWL turning up again to dub the girl in the PTS.

Voice artist Nikki van der Zyl was all over various Bond women in the early films (in GF, notably dubbing Shirley Eaton) and as such she became very much part of the films' distinctive soundscape.