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Topic: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

The 22nd Bond film and the 2nd to feature Daniel Craig.  Due to the writer's strike, scrambling, Craig and the director Marc Forster wrote the script for Quantum of Solace themselves.  Rather than inventing anything outlandish, they found a direct sequel as the safest bet.  It takes place just minutes after Casino Royale '06.  QoS received mixed to positive reviews but failed to match the towering acclaim of its predecessor.

Ultimately, this film is a mix of lots of pros and cons, making it one of the most essential films to discuss in this context.

Pros:
An overall strong performance by Craig
Continues where the last one left off
Greene's an insidious villain with a believable plot
The fast hard-hitting pre-title car shootout action sequence
The return of Mathis congeals the theme of the movie
Environmentalism is a bit ahead of its time
Formula elements (Q, Moneypenny, "shaken not stirred") are parted with
Rightfully unflattering portrayal of American government
The Tosca opera scene

Cons:
Plot is borrowed from Goldfinger and License to Kill
Directing is really jerky and cuts too fast at times
Field's death by oil is corny
Leans more toward action than spy elements
Craig's Bond has no sense of leisure - unlike Fleming
Curt dialogue that could've been fleshed on
Elvis didn't have much of a role
M follows Bond everywhere for some reason

Last edited by Absolutely_Cart (19th Sep 2015 21:57)

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Pros -

The Film starts off with a Bang
Some lush Scenery
Jemma Arteton  ajb007/lol
Quantum is expanded
The final Fight in the Hotel

Cons -

The Film feels rushed in some Places
Greene can sometimes come off as a dull Villain
The main Theme

1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

It gets a bit of a hammering but I really like QoS after we get past the the first 15 mins (I really hate the swinging rope scenes)


Pros:
Dominic Greene is indeed not a bad modern day villain.  Not over the top
Love the films wardrobe (poss one of the best)  Bond looks superb in everything
Enjoy the desert scenes immensely - especially the final showdown at the hotel
Camille is a great Bond girl since different role then they usually play
Fields getting bumped off (find her annoying so enjoyed this)
Bond getting hammered on the Virgin plane (bit of a Fleming vibe)
Opera scene is fantastic
Brutal fight in hotel room (In the past people see this as too brutal for Bond but I think it was great and shows him as a cold hearted killer)

Cons:

I didn't enjoy the PTS (too fast).  DC in my view has not been in a great car chase yet, SPECTRE will hopefully give us one.
Hate the chase and swinging about Tarzan rope scenes (totally ridiculous)
Dodgy CGI for the airplane section
Futuristic Mi6 office (computer table) is a bit cheesy
Dislike the demise of Mathis - would of rather he was left out of this film and returned later in the series.  In saying that I love the scene where Bond visits him

I also agree its a nice Bond film to watch when after a quick fix due to its length and pacing (apart from PTS)

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Quantum of Solace is probably the best movie from the entire series

Last edited by Higgins (13th Jun 2015 17:14)

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

At first I didn't like the Mathis disposal scene but now I see how it relates to the themes in the movie.  Bond's actions have consequences.  Bond's work is harrowing - not pretty.  Regret is unprofessional.  Etc.  It's not pleasant, but it's bitter medicine.  Sometimes artistry is about giving the consumer what they don't want.

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Higgins wrote:

Quantum of Solace is probably the best movie from the entire series

and you're probably not a troll.   ajb007/biggrin

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Pros:
-Fight on the scaffolding is very good
-Final fight scenes in the desert are good
-Idea of Quatum being everywhere is interesting
-Greene's fate is unique to the series
-Last scenes with Vesper's boyfriend and M and Bond are a fitting end to the Vesper story

Cons:
-Generally feels like a generic action film
-Opening chase is pretty bland IMO
-Mi6 set design is awful
-Poor editing
-Camille is a bland Bond girl

Overall, the film is both generic and forgettable. However, whilst it has no Bond feeling, it's a decent action flick. 7/10

1.LTK  2.AVTAK  3.OP  4.FYEO  5.TND  6.LALD  7.GE  8.GF  9.TSWLM  10.SPECTRE  11.SF  12.MR 13.YOLT  14.TLD  15.CR (06)  16.TMWTGG  17.TB  18.FRWL  19.TWINE  20.OHMSS  21.DAF  22.DAD  23.QoS  24.NSNA  25.DN  26.CR (67)

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Higgins wrote:

Quantum of Solace is probably the best movie from the entire series

Make that the Post of the Day as far as I'm concerned.  ajb007/smile  ajb007/martini

Writer/Director @ The Bondologist Blog (TBB)
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"The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Higgins wrote:

Quantum of Solace is probably the best movie from the entire series

I almost agree with you ! It's bl**dy brilliant  ajb007/martini

And the theme tune is one of the best  ajb007/cool

YNWA: Justice For The 96

The Joy Of 6

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Sir Miles wrote:

And the theme tune is one of the best  ajb007/cool

ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  No, that's the post of the day!!!

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Cant say I mind the theme tune, however I used to be a huge White Stripes fan back in the day!  ajb007/biggrin

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Gonna come back to this...

1. For Your Eyes Only      2. The Living Daylights    3 From Russia with Love  4. Casino Royale  5. OHMSS  6. Skyfall

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

The theme song is often criticized but I happen to like it.  Perhaps its a generational thing.

Baby boomers and older Gen X'ers tend to prefer a sense of harmony that isn't here.  But I wouldn't call Quantum of Solace a harmonic movie. 

It's a good song for QoS, though, because it does identify with that youthful sense of anger and frustration of the Millennial generation in a post-9/11 world, particularly the kind that the movie itself is conveying.

In a sense, you could say that You Know My Name is pretty much the same thing except Chris Cornell takes a more conventional hard rock route whereas Jack White and Alicia Keys take a more rap-oriented route.  In many ways, AWTD is a rap song - and rap lacks that harmony many people want. 

Distorting guitars was seen as dissonant by older folk just as rap is today.  It's a matter of time before AWTD becomes the establishment.

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Nah, it's melody that it lacks, not harmony  ajb007/biggrin . Dissonance is just fine!

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Barbel wrote:
Sir Miles wrote:

And the theme tune is one of the best  ajb007/cool

ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  No, that's the post of the day!!!

Ah, but it's now getting some of the love it deserves... ajb007/wink

Certainly sounds like someone nearly said that the 'old farts' won't get this great track  ajb007/lol

YNWA: Justice For The 96

The Joy Of 6

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

To quote Higgins' favourite actor: I got the message (bursts balloon)  ajb007/rolleyes .

Right: (rolls up sleeves) it's nothing to do with age. It's not the right song, that's all. James Bond music does evolve but it does have to fulfill its function. I love YKMN, and that does its job particularly well (it was, for want of a better word, Bondian: it fitted the times, it fitted the story, and its melody could be used within the film in various contexts). AWTD doesn't meet those criteria.
An old fart view would be to yearn for the days of ATH or LTK but Bond films don't have to have lush, highly-orchestrated ballads to start them off on the right foot- take YKMN, AVTAK, TLD, LALD for example. Those were appropriate and contemporary while being far from, say, NDIB or MR.
It's tricky to define the exact qualities which make a good Bond song: for the sake of argument let's say that DAF hits the spot while TMWTGG doesn't yet they're both by the same composer and lyricist (both with excellent Bond track records, puns not intended) and in the same time period. The music that was popular at the time didn't have too much of an influence on the Bond songs, which have been cited as existing in their own world outside of whatever's going on- that isn't strictly true, of course, but has some accuracy: Adele's successful SF song could be described as "retro" or simply Bondian.

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

What exactly makes YKMN Bondian and AWTD not?

I'm not saying you're wrong - I just want clarification.

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

I hope I covered some of that in the above post. The way Arnold used the melody of YKMN throughout the CR score provided a unity which benefited the movie. That couldn't be done with AWTD (or at least, not in as many ways: it could underscore an action sequence). Check the music in CR when Bond tries on his new jacket https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIn2JNcEpCk for an example.*
(The same argument could be used with Madonna's drivel for DAD, to show that it isn't just this one song. Arnold abstained from using it, bar briefly in the ice palace which I seem to recall wasn't entirely his decision http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/11008/mad … cored-low/ ).

* Here, Arnold is of course following in the footsteps of John Barry. JB would often use his main theme in different ways through the score (eg, here's TMWTGG used for action https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzrfJYIkdMQ  and as a love theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVaOrA5twbo). There's more than one way to skin a pussy, so he used other approaches too- OHMSS works fine as an action theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkWX5Wo-Xao but he composed a separate love theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t_pg2cpps4.
Arnold did write a love theme for CR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llUDPIvOSRc but didn't use it as extensively as YKMN.

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

The themesong is crap. I've done better than that, 276 times.

As for the movie... it's ok. It has some good moments. But overall I'd still rank it low-ish.

I think CR is the better of the two films... but I rank QOS slightly higher, as it's the one I'd rather watch. Perhaps length has something to do with that.

Last edited by Jarvio (13th Jun 2015 23:52)

1 - Avtak, 2 - Op, 3 - Ltk, 4 - Lald, 5 - Fyeo, 6 - Ohmss, 7 - Sf, 8 - Dn, 9 - Ge, 10 - Daf, 11 - Tmwtgg, 12 - Tswlm, 13 - Mr, 14 - Tld, 15 - Yolt, 16 - Sp, 17 - Gf, 18 - Frwl, 19 - Dad, 20 - Qos, 21 - Tnd, 22 - Twine, 23 - Tb, 24 - Cr

1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Cons: "WHoOOoO Oh oh OH", some of the shakey cam, bad drip in the gun barrel.

Pros: Everything else.

I really like this movie a lot.

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.QOS 4.DN 5.GF/GE 6.SP 7.FRWL 8.TB/TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

chrisisall wrote:

bad drip in the gun barrel.

Craig's not my favourite Bond but even I wouldn't call him that!

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

ajb007/lol

“I didn’t lose a friend, I just realised I never had one.”

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Barbel wrote:

Nah, it's melody that it lacks, not harmony  ajb007/biggrin . Dissonance is just fine!

Yes, melody. I love dissonance. I was just listening to Charles Ives' Three Quarter Tone Pieces the other day. That man knew how to write dissonance! Jack White and Alicia Keys do not.

A big pro for me is the clothing. Of Daniel Craig's three Bond films it's the only one where I really like the clothes. The suits have a great cut for Craig, though the fit could use slight improvement.

One of the biggest cons for me is the gun barrel at the end rather than the beginning. When I saw the film for the first time it was such a disappointment to not see it at the start of the film, and the gun barrel opening up to the water would have worked perfectly.

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

imagine the conversation at Eon.

Mr. Forster...
Yes?
You know that all James Bond movies have the gunbarrel sequence.
Really...
You need to put one in. 
Okay, we'll put it at the end
Good.
And we'll speed it up to make it extra flashy.
Okay...
And wouldn't it be cool if the gunbarrel were inside the letter Q.
Sure, okay, why not.

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Pros

1. Craig's energy keeps the movie going forward even when it was making no sense.

2. Arnold's score is one of his best even though the theme song sucked.

3. The opera scene (brilliant!).

4. The PTS (pretty good).

5. The chase scene across the rooftops (but it seemed like too much coming right after the PTS).

6. The final scene (the only scene that had the CR feel to it).

Cons

1. Everything else.

2. The script was obviously a first draft.  It had many interesting themes (we have people everywhere) that were never developed.

3. The deaths of Fields and Mathis seemed gratuitous and were just handled in an ugly way.

4. Greene?  I guess he's the villain Nick Nack should've been.

5. The story is unnecessarily confusing and made worse by the manic editing.

And how did Mr. White get away?  Hadn't he been shot twice at that point?  And aren't they in some sort of MI6 safe house jam packed with agents and guards and such?

EON should've sat out the writer's strike and waited another year.  There are some interesting ideas in QOS and it's always felt like a missed opportunity.