51

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Absolutely_Cart wrote:

The violent emotionally damaged brooding male hero has become an archetype over the past 10 years in action films and video games.  Craig was one of the progenitors, but Eon better abandon this ship before Craig gets lampooned.

SP promises to be a return to form; I shan't be too worried on that front, mate.

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.QOS 4.DN 5.GF/GE 6.SP 7.FRWL 8.TB/TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT

52

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

It's interesting to think how Lazenby was told not to cry when Tracey was killed, but Craig turns on the waterworks when M croaks.  ajb007/rolleyes

53

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Lazenby did shed a Tear during the original Take for the Ending of OHMSS.

But crying fits into the Personality of Craig's Bond more then any other previous Incarnation.

1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger

54

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

AlphaOmegaSin wrote:

Lazenby did shed a Tear during the original Take for the Ending of OHMSS.

But crying fits into the Personality of Craig's Bond more then any other previous Incarnation.

007s excuse is he knew M longer then Tracey  ajb007/lol  (in fact he knew M before he had the Operation!!)

Instagram - bondclothes007

55

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

When do we start calling him Caitlyn?

56

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

It's okay for men to cry.  Men do cry anyway, they're just too macho to show it.

57

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

AlphaOmegaSin wrote:

But crying fits into the Personality of Craig's Bond more then any other previous Incarnation.

I highly disagree with the statement above  ajb007/shifty
There is a much better match in Bond history in that regard!  ajb007/biggrin

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

58

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Higgins wrote:

There is a much better match in Bond history in that regard!  ajb007/biggrin

Go pop a balloon.
ajb007/biggrin

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.QOS 4.DN 5.GF/GE 6.SP 7.FRWL 8.TB/TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT

59

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Higgins wrote:
AlphaOmegaSin wrote:

But crying fits into the Personality of Craig's Bond more then any other previous Incarnation.

I highly disagree with the statement above  ajb007/shifty
There is a much better match in Bond history in that regard!  ajb007/biggrin

He sends his Regards  ajb007/shifty

1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger

60

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

The cons for me are:
- The theme tune; Alicia Keys' vocal might have been all right on her own but with Jack White, it just sounds harsh and clashes. A Bond song needs either a male or female voice, not both, and certainly not ones that don't go together.
- how they used Strawberry Fields. Gemma Arteton is a good actress but she's wasted here. Fields isn't allowed to have a personality, she's just fodder and jumps into bed with Bond in a matter of seconds. (I love the Goldfinger reference though)
- some of the stunts look a bit cartoony (particularly when characters are falling)

Despite this, I think the film is underrated and unfairly overshadowed by the writers' strike. It follows on nicely from Casino Royale and opens up a new direction, with Quantum replacing Spectre. The theme of government corruption works really well, with the Bolivian corruption and even the British Foreign Secretary. No wonder Bond doesn't know who to trust. I really like Camille and how Bond sees that her predicament matches his. It feels like there's something reminiscent of License to Kill.

I liked Rory Kinnear as Tanner and thought Judi Dench was on top form as M. The relationship between M and Bond is really moving; in general, I find it one of the most moving Bond films, particularly the ending. Its lack of slickness adds to its charm in my opinion- and despite the lack of slickness, Bond's arc is clear and effectively handled. As a film, it might not be as good as Casino Royale but it adds extra layers to Bond and pushes his story to the next level.

I rewatched it today; I quite enjoyed it first time round but this time around I've developed more of an appreciation for it. I think Skyfall tries to do some of the things Quantum of Solace does (M as surrogate mother to Bond, woman scarred by abuse, Bond as one step away from a breakdown, Bond in a modern political climate) but in a way that feels more manipulative and trite.

61

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Barbel wrote:

To quote Higgins' favourite actor: I got the message (bursts balloon)  ajb007/rolleyes .

Right: (rolls up sleeves) it's nothing to do with age. It's not the right song, that's all. James Bond music does evolve but it does have to fulfill its function. I love YKMN, and that does its job particularly well (it was, for want of a better word, Bondian: it fitted the times, it fitted the story, and its melody could be used within the film in various contexts). AWTD doesn't meet those criteria.
An old fart view would be to yearn for the days of ATH or LTK but Bond films don't have to have lush, highly-orchestrated ballads to start them off on the right foot- take YKMN, AVTAK, TLD, LALD for example. Those were appropriate and contemporary while being far from, say, NDIB or MR.
It's tricky to define the exact qualities which make a good Bond song: for the sake of argument let's say that DAF hits the spot while TMWTGG doesn't yet they're both by the same composer and lyricist (both with excellent Bond track records, puns not intended) and in the same time period. The music that was popular at the time didn't have too much of an influence on the Bond songs, which have been cited as existing in their own world outside of whatever's going on- that isn't strictly true, of course, but has some accuracy: Adele's successful SF song could be described as "retro" or simply Bondian.

A great post. For me, a good Bond theme tune should be big and dramatic. That doesn't necessarily mean belting but it should be bold and cinematic.

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Thank you.

63

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Barbel wrote:

To quote Higgins' favourite actor: I got the message (bursts balloon)  ajb007/rolleyes .

Right: (rolls up sleeves) it's nothing to do with age. It's not the right song, that's all. James Bond music does evolve but it does have to fulfill its function. I love YKMN, and that does its job particularly well (it was, for want of a better word, Bondian: it fitted the times, it fitted the story, and its melody could be used within the film in various contexts). AWTD doesn't meet those criteria.
An old fart view would be to yearn for the days of ATH or LTK but Bond films don't have to have lush, highly-orchestrated ballads to start them off on the right foot- take YKMN, AVTAK, TLD, LALD for example. Those were appropriate and contemporary while being far from, say, NDIB or MR.
It's tricky to define the exact qualities which make a good Bond song: for the sake of argument let's say that DAF hits the spot while TMWTGG doesn't yet they're both by the same composer and lyricist (both with excellent Bond track records, puns not intended) and in the same time period. The music that was popular at the time didn't have too much of an influence on the Bond songs, which have been cited as existing in their own world outside of whatever's going on- that isn't strictly true, of course, but has some accuracy: Adele's successful SF song could be described as "retro" or simply Bondian.

I think that you are over-analyzing it.
A song should have a melody and not sound like 2 cats getting their balls removed while being awake  ajb007/rolleyes

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

64

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Lady Ice wrote:

The cons for me are:
- The theme tune; Alicia Keys' vocal might have been all right on her own but with Jack White, it just sounds harsh and clashes. A Bond song needs either a male or female voice, not both, and certainly not ones that don't go together.
- how they used Strawberry Fields. Gemma Arteton is a good actress but she's wasted here. Fields isn't allowed to have a personality, she's just fodder and jumps into bed with Bond in a matter of seconds. (I love the Goldfinger reference though)
- some of the stunts look a bit cartoony (particularly when characters are falling)

Despite this, I think the film is underrated and unfairly overshadowed by the writers' strike. It follows on nicely from Casino Royale and opens up a new direction, with Quantum replacing Spectre. The theme of government corruption works really well, with the Bolivian corruption and even the British Foreign Secretary. No wonder Bond doesn't know who to trust. I really like Camille and how Bond sees that her predicament matches his. It feels like there's something reminiscent of License to Kill.

I liked Rory Kinnear as Tanner and thought Judi Dench was on top form as M. The relationship between M and Bond is really moving; in general, I find it one of the most moving Bond films, particularly the ending. Its lack of slickness adds to its charm in my opinion- and despite the lack of slickness, Bond's arc is clear and effectively handled. As a film, it might not be as good as Casino Royale but it adds extra layers to Bond and pushes his story to the next level.

I rewatched it today; I quite enjoyed it first time round but this time around I've developed more of an appreciation for it. I think Skyfall tries to do some of the things Quantum of Solace does (M as surrogate mother to Bond, woman scarred by abuse, Bond as one step away from a breakdown, Bond in a modern political climate) but in a way that feels more manipulative and trite.

Well done for this post. And QoS does improve over time... ajb007/biggrin  ajb007/biggrin  ajb007/biggrin

1. For Your Eyes Only      2. The Living Daylights    3 From Russia with Love  4. Casino Royale  5. OHMSS  6. Skyfall

65

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Higgins wrote:

I think that you are over-analyzing it.
A song should have a melody and not sound like 2 cats getting their balls removed while being awake  ajb007/rolleyes

Which I assume would sound pleasant, because of all the ketamine injected in their little bodies.

AWTD would be a horrible theme song for any other Bond movie but works great for this one.

66

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Absolutely_Cart wrote:
Higgins wrote:

I think that you are over-analyzing it.
A song should have a melody and not sound like 2 cats getting their balls removed while being awake  ajb007/rolleyes

Which I assume would sound pleasant, because of all the ketamine injected in their little bodies.

AWTD would be a horrible theme song for any other Bond movie but works great for this one.

Horrible song for a horrible movie?   ajb007/biggrin

2019 Bondathon...in progress (6) FRWL (7) GE (8) FYEO (9) TND (10) MR (11) GF (12) LALD (13) DAF (14) LTK (15) TMWTGG (16) TB (17) TSWLM (18) DAD (19) AVTAK (20) YOLT (21) QOS (22) SF (23) TWINE (24) SP

67

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Cons:

Editing
Direction
Script
Boring characters
Music
The ending could have been a pro but by then who could give a flying ****?

Pros

Opera scene.
Mathis.

QOS is the nadir of the entire series the only one that is basically unwatchable - I cannot ever see myself viewing it again.

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

68

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Higgins wrote:


A song should have a melody and not sound like 2 cats getting their balls removed while being awake  ajb007/rolleyes

ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  That's it, in a... nutshell?  ajb007/crap

69

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

ajb007/lol  That's the dog's boll*cks !  ajb007/wink

“I didn’t lose a friend, I just realised I never had one.”

70

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Barbel wrote:
Higgins wrote:


A song should have a melody and not sound like 2 cats getting their balls removed while being awake  ajb007/rolleyes

ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  That's it, in a... nutshell?  ajb007/crap

You are all philistines  ajb007/shifty

QoS is the third best movie in the entire series... ajb007/martini

YNWA: Justice For The 96

The Joy Of 6

71

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

but probably NOT the best from the entire series  ajb007/biggrin  ajb007/tongue

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

72

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Higgins wrote:

but probably NOT the best from the entire series  ajb007/biggrin  ajb007/tongue

No...third best... ajb007/martini

YNWA: Justice For The 96

The Joy Of 6

73

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

It certainly sounds like " A Third"  ajb007/wink

“I didn’t lose a friend, I just realised I never had one.”

74

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Sir Miles wrote:
Higgins wrote:

but probably NOT the best from the entire series  ajb007/biggrin  ajb007/tongue

No...third best... ajb007/martini

Yes, best turd  ajb007/biggrin

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

75

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

I'm not a big fan of this film. Casino Royale is my favourite film of all time, not just Bond film but I found this to be a little disappointing. It all seemed too rushed to me. The best scene in the film was at the end between Bond, Yusef and the Canadian agent. There was some great acting and real tension in that scene. Saying that I prefer QOS it to Skyfall.

Yes. Considerably!

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