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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

I tend to agree. I really disliked QoS when I saw it at the cinema but have warmed to it somewhat on repeat viewings. I think the basic problem is that the film is underwritten thanks to the writers strike.

This means that the film is (as I'm sure has been mentioned before - I haven't gone through the rest of the thread) too short. The film's climax seems to come out of nowhere, with Bond struggling to defeat a villain who should have posed no physical threat to him whatsoever. Similarly, his main henchman Elvis is just terrible - he seems unable to protect his boss in any way, which leads me to wonder what the point of the character is.

It's a shame, because (despite the absolute worst theme song of the entire series), there really is a lot to enjoy here, especially the Bond/M relationship. It's a wonderful moment when M finally decides to say bollocks to the CIA and trust her man.

If there hadn't been a financial imperative to not delay the film's release until the script could be completed, we could have had something really interesting instead of a flawed but fascinating movie,

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Not sure what to think of QoS. I feel there's similarities with the locations and villains of TB, the revenge story and violent action of LTK, and the over-the-top climax of DAD.

Pros:
Mark Forster's direction gives the film such magnificient style.
Camile is a great, strong Bond girl.
Fields is a great addition.
Dominic Green is a good villain.
David Arnold's score is brilliant, and perhaps his best. Pursuit at Port a Prince is one of my favourites.
Daniel Craig really makes the character believable.
The revenge storyline and how it is mirrored in Camile's character arc.
The Bond-M relationship.
One of the series' best title songs.
The return of Mathis.

Cons:
There are gaps in the story so while it mostly holds together, it could have been much stronger than it is. Pity production went ahead despite the writers guild strike.
The jolting editing style makes action sequences hard to follow.
As a follow up to CR, it is disapointing.
Like the Brosnan films, action scenes are dropped in as soon as the story slows.
Bond's pursuit of Greene during the climax seems unnecessary.
Weak and unmemorable henchmen.
Lacks Bondian qualities.


I think QoS was risen slightly in my rankings but not too much.

Last edited by IcePak (24th Jul 2017 12:35)

1. CR 2 OHMSS 3. TSWLM 4. TLD 5. SF 6. GF
7. GE 8. FRwL 9. FYEO 10. LtK 11. DN 12. TMwtGG
13. AVtaK14. TB 15. OP 16. SP 17. TWiNE 18. TND
19. MR 20. LaLD 21. QoS 22. YOLT 23. DAD 24. DAF

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

BondJasonBond006 wrote:


Furthermore the way coolest kill ever happens in QOS when Craig tells Greene that he wondered how long he would last without drinking the oil in the can that Bond throws before Greene's feet. Then drives away, letting Greene stand there in the middle of the desert looking like a drowned rat.

Going through this thread from the beginning, I'd forgotten all about this scene (really need to see QoS again!). What always strikes me about it is that it's very similar to a scene in the Clint Eastwood spy movie The Eiger Sanction in which (SPOILER AHOY)
.
.
.
.
Eastwood's character Jonathan Hemlock gets rid of his rival Miles Mellough (Jack Cassidy) by driving him out to the dersert and leaving him there.

Interesting film, The Eiger Sanction, parts of it are terrible and cliched, but the climbing sequences are absolutely amazing.

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

IcePak wrote:

Not sure what to think of QoS. I feel there's similarities with the locations and villains of TB, the revenge story and violent action of LTK, and the over-the-top climax of DAD.

Pros:
Mark Forster's direction gives the film such magnificient style.
Camile is a great, strong Bond girl.
Fields is a great addition.
Dominic Green is a good villain.
David Arnold's score is brilliant, and perhaps his best. Pursuit at Port a Prince is one of my favourites.
Daniel Craig really makes the character believable.
The revenge storyline and how it is mirrored in Camile's character arc.
The Bond-M relationship.
One of the series' best title songs.
The return of Mathis.

Cons:
There are gaps in the story so while it mostly holds together, it could have been much stronger than it is. Pity production went ahead despite the writers guild strike.
The jolting editing style makes action sequences hard to follow.
As a follow up to CR, it is disapointing.
Like the Brosnan films, action scenes are dropped in as soon as the story slows.
Bond's pursuit of Greene during the climax seems unnecessary.
Weak and unmemorable henchmen.
Lacks Bondian qualities.


I think QoS was risen slightly in my rankings but not too much.

As with ALL Bond films the good bits are so good they negate the bad bits for me,  QoS  is amongst my most watched Bond films, sure there are few niggles but I massively enjoy this one.  I think the title song would be better if Jack White had locked Alicia Keys out of the studio. 
Also why do you find the climax over the top Icepak?  for me it's no where near the excessive level of DAD it's just a burning hotel a few handguns and a fistfight,  nearer to the CR sinking venetian palazzo I'd say? 
I'd add the final scenes in Russia to any pros list,  it's magnificent in its understatement,  I also love how they made Camille Bonds equal almost and kept her out of Bond's bed, that adds to her character I think. 
One thing that always niggles me is when camille asks bond if he's one of Greenes men during the boat chase and bond replies "Dominic Greene?" why would bond know of Dominic Greene?  He's not been on the Radar up to that point!  It niggles me as much as the whole " le chiffre has lost all his money and that why he can put on a high stakes poker tournament "  dialogue in CR!!!  But just minor niggles that in no way detract from a unique and welcome badass entry into the Bond series.

It was either that.....or the priesthood

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Have to admit while QOS has taken a pounding over the years personally I liked the film and loved the sartorial style. It's a film I really seemed to connect with. My niggle was the lack of continuity between QOS and CR, JB should at least have been in a 3 piece! Sure the story line was not as tight as CR but it was always going to be a tough act to follow. That said situation was recovered well by the time SF was released.

Have to say I preferred the CR title song over the QOS one though.

Cheers  ajb007/bond

My name is Bond, Basildon Bond - I have letters after my name!

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Bond44 wrote:

Have to admit while QOS has taken a pounding over the years personally I liked the film and loved the sartorial style. It's a film I really seemed to connect with. My niggle was the lack of continuity between QOS and CR, JB should at least have been in a 3 piece! Sure the story line was not as tight as CR but it was always going to be a tough act to follow. That said situation was recovered well by the time SF was released.

Have to say I preferred the CR title song over the QOS one though.

Cheers  ajb007/bond

I loved QoS from the first time I saw it aswell,  it was also the film that got me into all this bond clothing collecting in earnest.  Along with Thunderball it's my most watched Bond film, it helps it comes in a snack sized 90 minutes.

It was either that.....or the priesthood

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Chriscoop wrote:

it helps it comes in a snack sized 90 minutes.

LOL! That's great! Ha ha  ajb007/cheers

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.QOS 4.DN 5.GF/GE 6.SP 7.FRWL 8.TB/TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Chriscoop wrote:
Bond44 wrote:

Have to admit while QOS has taken a pounding over the years personally I liked the film and loved the sartorial style. It's a film I really seemed to connect with. My niggle was the lack of continuity between QOS and CR, JB should at least have been in a 3 piece! Sure the story line was not as tight as CR but it was always going to be a tough act to follow. That said situation was recovered well by the time SF was released.

Have to say I preferred the CR title song over the QOS one though.

Cheers  ajb007/bond

I loved QoS from the first time I saw it aswell,  it was also the film that got me into all this bond clothing collecting in earnest.  Along with Thunderball it's my most watched Bond film, it helps it comes in a snack sized 90 minutes.

Yeah it was bite sized. But throw in the Aston Martin DBS, TF108's and Omega PO 42mm (a normal sized watch) and QOS has a lot to answer for!

Well I got the PO and 108's the Aston will follow one day  ajb007/biggrin

Cheers  ajb007/bond

Last edited by Bond44 (24th Jul 2017 21:38)

My name is Bond, Basildon Bond - I have letters after my name!

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

ajb007/lol  oh yeah,  this film cost me thousands in clothes, sunglasses and watch.

It was either that.....or the priesthood

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Chriscoop wrote:

Also why do you find the climax over the top Icepak?  for me it's no where near the excessive level of DAD it's just a burning hotel a few handguns and a fistfight,  nearer to the CR sinking venetian palazzo I'd say? 
I'd add the final scenes in Russia to any pros list,  it's magnificent in its understatement,  I also love how they made Camille Bonds equal almost and kept her out of Bond's bed, that adds to her character I think.

I definitely love the scene in Russia too. It's hard not to love it when Stana Katic is in it but she does very little, sadly. Still, great end to the film, especially the part with M.

I also agree about Bond not bedding Camile. It makes the character more believable. And I love how they first meet.

I don't think anything will ever be more OTT than the DAD climax, however, the building exploding for nearly no reason at all in QoS reminded me of the DAD climax pushing everything to the hilt for maximum effect and overdoing it. It seems unnecessary. Further, Camile's character arc here is far more powerful than Bond pursuing Greene but there is more focus on Bond, sadly.

I do seem to like QoS more every time I watch it.

1. CR 2 OHMSS 3. TSWLM 4. TLD 5. SF 6. GF
7. GE 8. FRwL 9. FYEO 10. LtK 11. DN 12. TMwtGG
13. AVtaK14. TB 15. OP 16. SP 17. TWiNE 18. TND
19. MR 20. LaLD 21. QoS 22. YOLT 23. DAD 24. DAF

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

I remember someone else once speculating:
the fight in the exploding hotel was an unofficial adaptation of Fleming's the Spy Who Loved Me ... seems more like a coincidence to me, after 20 films everything else got blowed up, sooner or later its going to be a hotel, but if true might explain why they needed to have so much blowing up real good while fighting a pair of otherwise mundane villains

the collapsing building in the previous film seems over the top to me, it comes out of nowhere and is unnecessary to the plot, very tacked on, but I get why they did it, structurally: by following Fleming's story so closely they had absolutely no action scenes for a good half hour after the adventure proper ended, they certainly couldn't end an action film with Vesper just OD'ing on sleeping pills

and yes a pro for me is the extra bonus ending of this film: they may have only used the title of one short story, but they actually filmed the mission from an even more obscure short story, bonus points for that

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

IcePak wrote:
Chriscoop wrote:

Also why do you find the climax over the top Icepak?  for me it's no where near the excessive level of DAD it's just a burning hotel a few handguns and a fistfight,  nearer to the CR sinking venetian palazzo I'd say? 
I'd add the final scenes in Russia to any pros list,  it's magnificent in its understatement,  I also love how they made Camille Bonds equal almost and kept her out of Bond's bed, that adds to her character I think.

I definitely love the scene in Russia too. It's hard not to love it when Stana Katic is in it but she does very little, sadly. Still, great end to the film, especially the part with M.

I also agree about Bond not bedding Camile. It makes the character more believable. And I love how they first meet.

I don't think anything will ever be more OTT than the DAD climax, however, the building exploding for nearly no reason at all in QoS reminded me of the DAD climax pushing everything to the hilt for maximum effect and overdoing it. It seems unnecessary. Further, Camile's character arc here is far more powerful than Bond pursuing Greene but there is more focus on Bond, sadly.

I do seem to like QoS more every time I watch it.

The hotel is powered by solar power with hydrogen fuel cells,  it's Carlos land rover crashing into them that sets off the explosions.  You see not over the top at all  ajb007/biggrin

It was either that.....or the priesthood

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Niggle' in the hotel with fields covered in oil
M berating bond having him arrested and de-armed
Then 1 minute later when bond when bond escapes
Telling tanner " I trust my man " and letting him go
What changed her mind so quickly?

By the way' the name is  "James St. John smythe"  I'm English

214

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Osiris wrote:

Niggle' in the hotel with fields covered in oil
M berating bond having him arrested and de-armed
Then 1 minute later when bond when bond escapes
Telling tanner " I trust my man " and letting him go
What changed her mind so quickly?

Who said she changed her mind?
M had a room full of people, so I think she had to be 'seen to be doing her job' - plus the CIA had a 'capture or kill' order out on him...perhaps her plan was to let Bond go when it was safer..?..or maybe she listened to what he told her and believed him..?..he is her best agent, although she wouldn't tell him  ajb007/biggrin

YNWA: Justice For The 96

The Joy Of 6

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

QOS is fast on it's way to becoming my favourite Bond movie.
Yes, I totally love Tim, and TND has my favourite Bond girl, but QOS is just so fast & ferocious... like DN's straightforwardness combined with LTK's stark violence. Add to that Arnold's (arguably) finest score and a good lead in to the SPECTRE tie up to the four Craig films and I see a near perfect gem here. Yeah, CR is good, I still have issues with SF, and no matter how much I like SP (and I DO like SP a LOT), QOS is just memorizing to me. I must revise my list soon...

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.QOS 4.DN 5.GF/GE 6.SP 7.FRWL 8.TB/TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

chrisisall wrote:

QOS is fast on it's way to becoming my favourite Bond movie.
Yes, I totally love Tim, and TND has my favourite Bond girl, but QOS is just so fast & ferocious... like DN's straightforwardness combined with LTK's stark violence. Add to that Arnold's (arguably) finest score and a good lead in to the SPECTRE tie up to the four Craig films and I see a near perfect gem here. Yeah, CR is good, I still have issues with SF, and no matter how much I like SP (and I DO like SP a LOT), QOS is just memorizing to me. I must revise my list soon...

Totally agree with everything you say. The QoS fan club!!

I'm also happy someone else has called out this is Arnold's finest score too. It's a really original piece that totally matches the frenetic pace.

Don't forget to head to the Ultimate Ranking thread in the trivia section so I can adjust the 2017 rankings!

1. TWINE  2. FYEO  3. MR  4. TLD  5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS  7. DN  8. OP  9. AVTAK  10. TMWTGG  11. QoS 12. GE  13. CR  14. TB  15. FRWL  16. LTK  17. GF  18. SF  19. LaLD  20. YOLT  21. TND  22. DAD  23. DAF.

"If you'll forgive me, that's a little too scented for my palate."

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Quantum Of Solace is effing awesome. Just felt like saying it because it's true. And definitely Arnold's best score.
ajb007/martini

1. GE 2. CR 3. LTK 4. TLD 5. TB 6. GF 7. FRWL 8. DN 9. OHMSS 10. QOS 11. TND 12. TSWLM 13. FYEO 14. OP 15. MR 16. TWINE 17. DAD 18. SF 19. DAF 20. AVTAK 21. LALD 22. TMWTGG 23. YOLT 24. SP

1. Connery 2. Moore 3. Dalton 4. Brosnan 5. Craig 6. Lazenby

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Remington wrote:

Quantum Of Solace is effing awesome. Just felt like saying it because it's true. And definitely Arnold's best score.
ajb007/martini

And pretty soon I’ll have you all loving AWTD  ajb007/martini

...softly, softly catchy monkey  ajb007/biggrin

YNWA: Justice For The 96

The Joy Of 6

219

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Sir Miles wrote:
Remington wrote:

Quantum Of Solace is effing awesome. Just felt like saying it because it's true. And definitely Arnold's best score.
ajb007/martini

And pretty soon I’ll have you all loving AWTD  ajb007/martini

...softly, softly catchy monkey  ajb007/biggrin

I actually do like it,   it's just Alicia Keys who spoils it.  Is there an instrumental version anywhere?

It was either that.....or the priesthood

220

Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Its OK I found one woohoo https://youtu.be/aavzXhUnTHE

It was either that.....or the priesthood

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

My problem with QoS is the same as with LTK: Both are decent/good action movies, but it never felt like Bond movies to me. LTK is too much like Miami Vice and QoS is too much like Bourne. I miss the class and charm that Bond has, although the opera scene is done very well. But it is not enough for me to make it feel like a Bond movie.

Also the villain is very forgettable, the plot never really held my interest and it is missing the usual Bond elements like a gun barrel, a Q scene etcetera.

OHMSS, FRWL, DN, GF, CR, GE, SP, YOLT, TB, TSWLM, LALD, TLD, TND, FYEO, SF, MR, TMWTGG, TWINE, OP, AVTAK, DAF, LTK, QOS, DAD

1. Connery 2. Craig 3. Brosnan 4. Dalton 5. Lazenby 6. Moore

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Sir Miles wrote:
Remington wrote:

Quantum Of Solace is effing awesome. Just felt like saying it because it's true. And definitely Arnold's best score.
ajb007/martini

And pretty soon I’ll have you all loving AWTD  ajb007/martini

...softly, softly catchy monkey  ajb007/biggrin

Guess what. I already like AWTD. I think its an underrated tune. The music and verses are great. Could've done without the "whoaoaoa" part and "shoot em up bang bang" though. There's a tribute video on YouTube using the song. It's actually really good.
ajb007/martini

1. GE 2. CR 3. LTK 4. TLD 5. TB 6. GF 7. FRWL 8. DN 9. OHMSS 10. QOS 11. TND 12. TSWLM 13. FYEO 14. OP 15. MR 16. TWINE 17. DAD 18. SF 19. DAF 20. AVTAK 21. LALD 22. TMWTGG 23. YOLT 24. SP

1. Connery 2. Moore 3. Dalton 4. Brosnan 5. Craig 6. Lazenby

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

Dear Sirs,

Again, I would be grateful for your opinion on what kind of coupons Greene is stamping in the hut at the harbour in Port-au-Prince.
I never understood the scene.

Best regards,
7

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Re: Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace

As I understand it, it's simply a piece of busywork for Greene to be doing when Camille walks in and is insignificant to the story of the film.