26

Re: Members' reviews of "Trigger Mortis" (spoilers)

Strange  how we all as fans can hold such different views, having read
the same books.  ajb007/smile  I hated the Boyd book but loved Trigger Mortis.  ajb007/lol

"Let his death be a particularly unpleasant and humiliating one."

27

Re: Members' reviews of "Trigger Mortis" (spoilers)

Polar Bear 0007 wrote:

Fair enough superado, but my intent was not to attack anyone's "poor sense of taste".  I thought Boyd's effort was the best of the recent books and many of Gardner's very good. 

I was simply stating my opinion on the book and was pleased to see a review that I generally agreed with.  I was very excited when TM was released, but in my opinion it was poorly written, boardered on plagiarism, and a very big disappointment.  Only my opinion, sorry you were offended.

PS- for what it's worth, I think you were spot on regarding your comments on the new comic release!

Apologies for being harsh, PB0007.  I suppose after taking in a book and everything that process entails, whether one likes it a little or a lot becomes personal.   TM wasn’t a perfect book, but there were enough elements to make the overall reading experience a satisfying one, IMO superior to the past (almost) dozen continuation novels.

"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....

28

Re: Members' reviews of "Trigger Mortis" (spoilers)

Thunderpussy wrote:

Strange  how we all as fans can hold such different views, having read
the same books.  ajb007/smile  I hated the Boyd book but loved Trigger Mortis.  ajb007/lol

The late 60s was a great time to explore in the literary Bond world in Boyd's novel, but all the gains made in the begining were lost to the Dogs of War rip-off in the rest of the book.

"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....

29

Re: Members' reviews of "Trigger Mortis" (spoilers)

Yea for my money a good novel, a good thriller... But come on Anthony, how many bloody times do we need to be told what Trigger Mortis refers to?
The answer is once, not three times thanks, just once. What kind of audience need their hands held to that extent? Answers on a postcard please.

Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.
Oscar Wilde

30

Re: Members' reviews of "Trigger Mortis" (spoilers)

just got round to reading Trigger Mortis

definitely better than the other recent oneshots, and from what I remember better than the Gardners I read (never tried the Bensons)
I didn't get the feeling the author had just pasted James Bonds name onto some other characters adventure to get it published, like most of the other recent continuations
maybe it helped Horowitz was working from Fleming's own notes, and worked hard to place it within the appropriate slot in Fleming's continuity?
meaning, it was sourced from leftover plot outlines that otherwise became For Your Eyes Only, so therefor it makes sense that this adventure should follow immediately after Goldfinger

I think we got more scenes with Pussy Galore in this book than we got from Fleming ... and she does talk like a tuff American dame, moreso than Honour Blackman did in the film
I like how she runs off with the lady Bond was planning to boink next: Bond in fact does not convert her, she just enjoys a satisfying single serving of beef before returning to her preferred diet of tuna
probably a more modern understanding of homosexuality than Fleming would have had. Bond's contact in Berlin is also a gay man, who Bond has been buddies with since the war. Bond doesn't tell his buddy his theories about having given women the vote.

Also at one point Bond lets a minion live, with uncharacteristic worries about the minions family. Could this be the beginning of the brooding about the "dirty damn business" that recurs in Fleming's later novels? the origins of Bond's conscience regarding the nature of his work?

The frequent action scenes seem more like the movies, but they're all very gripping, and most of them I could easily imagine being filmed. I especially liked the motorcycle chase across 1950s Brooklyn. I want to get a map out and see if the route described actually works. I wish there'd been more of Coney Island though, especially since two coincident plotthreads telegraphed that this would be an inevitable location for the later scenes. I love Coney Island, and am sure in the 1950s there would have been many more rides and amusements than survive today. (as the wooden roller coaster says "hold on to your wigs and carkeys")

Being buried alive is something we've recently seen happen to Uma Thurman in Kill Bill, and Lisbeth Salander in The Girl Who Played with Fire. I guess its new to Bond but still I kept thinking of those other stories. And Bonds escape was described in the same surprise flashback style as seen (every five minutes) in recent Guy Ritchie movies, a bit of a narrative cheat I think and definitely not the way Fleming would have explained a sequence of events.


So Moonraker looms pretty large over this story, yet all we get is Bond thinking he has so witnessed a rocket launch before, and from a very special point of view too, but he does not say so aloud while meeting the people running the rocket launch site. Why doesn't Bond speak up? Could this be canonically significant? Pearson's 007 Authorised Biography tells us Moonraker is the only adventure that did not "really" happen, that Flemings book was an elaborate conspiracy to confuse  the Russians, whereas all the others were true. But maybe the event was "real", and so top secret Pearson's Bond was not allowed to speak about it to "Pearson" even 20 years later, whereas all his other missions were declassified by that point? Thus in 1957 Bond can remember it but cannot speak about it. And therefor... making Pearson's book (possibly) canonical!

And then maybe the reason we never heard about this adventure before is because all Space Program related missions are extra double top secret?

From memory (actually from Pearson's other Bond-related biography), there were at least three leftover plot outlines from the abandoned TV series, that did not get used in FYEO. Hopefully Horowitz  will be invited back to flesh those out into proper Bond books as well.

Last edited by caractacus potts (19th Oct 2017 23:54)

31

Re: Members' reviews of "Trigger Mortis" (spoilers)

caractacus potts wrote:

From memory (actually from Pearson's other Bond-related biography), there were at least three leftover plot outlines from the abandoned TV series, that did not get used in FYEO. Hopefully Horowitz  will be invited back to flesh those out into proper Bond books as well.

It's being done!

https://www.thebookseller.com/news/horo … ape-404116
http://www.ianfleming.com/anthony-horow … ond-novel/

32

Re: Members' reviews of "Trigger Mortis" (spoilers)

well I think that's swell news
they say he was invited to write another "after the success of ...Trigger Mortis"
does that mean they acknowledge the previous three oneshots were failures?

I still would like to see them just publish a collection of Fleming's (Bond related) fragments, outlines, and rough notes as is, I'd read them and flesh out the potential stories in my own mind
as good a job Horowitz did, its still just one mans fanfic, no more valid to me than what my own imagination  could come up with


for comparison...
there's a Philip Marlowe book called Poodle Springs, by Robert B. Parker, completing four chapters of an unfinished novel Raymond Chandler left behind when he died. The Chandler content is more substantial than the "400 words" or so, plus notes, that are genuine Fleming content in Trigger Mortis, and its easier therefor to appreciate what Chandler actually wrote, if not what he intended. The genuine Chandler content has Marlowe married to rich woman living in a new house out in the suburbs! very unChandlerian, and the Parker content that completes the book is structured to lead Marlowe back to the more typical dirty downtown office / bachelor lifestyle situation that we expect.

Tintin fans may know something called Tintin and the AlphaArt, which was an unfinished book Herge was partway through when he died. His heirs decided not to complete his last work, but instead published his sketches and notes as is, in a fancy artbook format. For completists only, but I like it. The first pages are rendered in detail, ready to be inked, then by twenty pages in we get increasingly random scribblings and notes crossed out. Last image is Tintin tied up, left in a deathtrap, with no indication how he is to escape.

33

Re: Members' reviews of "Trigger Mortis" (spoilers)

caractacus potts wrote:

there's a Philip Marlowe book called Poodle Springs, by Robert B. Parker, completing four chapters of an unfinished novel Raymond Chandler left behind when he died. The Chandler content is more substantial than the "400 words" or so, plus notes, that are genuine Fleming content in Trigger Mortis, and its easier therefor to appreciate what Chandler actually wrote, if not what he intended. The genuine Chandler content has Marlowe married to rich woman living in a new house out in the suburbs! very unChandlerian, and the Parker content that completes the book is structured to lead Marlowe back to the more typical dirty downtown office / bachelor lifestyle situation that we expect.

I'd been familiar with what was then known as "The Poodle Springs Story" for many years before Parker was assigned to expand on it, since it was included in "Raymond Chandler Speaking" (which I recommend to anyone interested in Chandler's world) and think Parker did a better job of it than with "Perchance To Dream", his "Big Sleep" sequel, which came next.
It's fair to compare that with Horowitz's work, thanks for pointing it out.
(Side note- did you ever see the film of "Poodle Springs", with James Caan as Marlowe? It took very little from either Chandler or Parker.)

34

Re: Members' reviews of "Trigger Mortis" (spoilers)

Barbel wrote:
caractacus potts wrote:

From memory (actually from Pearson's other Bond-related biography), there were at least three leftover plot outlines from the abandoned TV series, that did not get used in FYEO. Hopefully Horowitz  will be invited back to flesh those out into proper Bond books as well.

It's being done!

https://www.thebookseller.com/news/horo … ape-404116
http://www.ianfleming.com/anthony-horow … ond-novel/

I believe though that it's a prequel to Fleming's Casino Royale, correct? I gather there will still be original Fleming story material used though. It will be interesting indeed to see how that is ultimately achieved.

Writer/Director @ The Bondologist Blog (TBB)
On Twitter: @Dragonpol 
'Like' TBB on FB: TBB Update Page
"The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).

35

Re: Members' reviews of "Trigger Mortis" (spoilers)

I hadn't heard that it's a prequel, though that would be interesting. Yes, it will feature unused Fleming material  ajb007/smile  and Horowitz says he has "a killer first line" which I'm looking forward to. He's writing it at the moment but it'll be next year before we see it.

36

Re: Members' reviews of "Trigger Mortis" (spoilers)

Barbel wrote:

I hadn't heard that it's a prequel, though that would be interesting. Yes, it will feature unused Fleming material  ajb007/smile  and Horowitz says he has "a killer first line" which I'm looking forward to. He's writing it at the moment but it'll be next year before we see it.

That was the talk when it was first announced about a year ago. Don't know if it's still going to be a prequel or not though as Horowitz took to Twitter recently to reveal he was on the, I think, seventh chapter.

Writer/Director @ The Bondologist Blog (TBB)
On Twitter: @Dragonpol 
'Like' TBB on FB: TBB Update Page
"The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).

37

Re: Members' reviews of "Trigger Mortis" (spoilers)

I've never read his other stuff (Alex Rider, etc) but have enjoyed his Bond and Holmes books, and of course his TV work. He's perhaps the best 007 continuation author since... ah... don't want to upset you!  ajb007/biggrin

38

Re: Members' reviews of "Trigger Mortis" (spoilers)

Barbel wrote:

I've never read his other stuff (Alex Rider, etc) but have enjoyed his Bond and Holmes books, and of course his TV work. He's perhaps the best 007 continuation author since... ah... don't want to upset you!  ajb007/biggrin

Kingsley Amis? I won't take offence at that.  ajb007/smile

Writer/Director @ The Bondologist Blog (TBB)
On Twitter: @Dragonpol 
'Like' TBB on FB: TBB Update Page
"The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).

39

Re: Members' reviews of "Trigger Mortis" (spoilers)

I'd say since Amis if your after the Fleming era vibe.  I found colonel Sun a decent read,  though I found it floundered here and there. It's possibly a bit long or felt it compared to a Fleming tome which always seem quick to finish.  I'm looking forward to the trigger mortis follow up or prequel,  the only thing that even slightly bothered me about tm was the name checking as if we needed reminding it was a bond story.

It was either that.....or the priesthood

40

Re: Members' reviews of "Trigger Mortis" (spoilers)

Yes, Amis. ajb007/smile

41

Re: Members' reviews of "Trigger Mortis" (spoilers)

Barbel wrote:

Yes, Amis. ajb007/smile

I'm a big Amis fan too of course and would agree that Colonel Sun is the best and most authentic of the Bond continuation novels.

Writer/Director @ The Bondologist Blog (TBB)
On Twitter: @Dragonpol 
'Like' TBB on FB: TBB Update Page
"The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).

42

Re: Members' reviews of "Trigger Mortis" (spoilers)

Barbel wrote:

(Side note- did you ever see the film of "Poodle Springs", with James Caan as Marlowe? It took very little from either Chandler or Parker.)

didn't know there was such a film. Seems funny somebody would adapt that when there's several proper Chandler novels that have yet to be filmed, or if they were are so obscure, or so poorly done, they might as well be remade. For example, the Altman/Gould version of The Long Goodbye barely qualifies as a proper adaptation and could stand a more faithful remake.



I was looking at some other threads where folks discussed Trigger Mortis. One reviewer (sorry I forget who) pointed out a big structural issue with this book: the "Hell on Wheels" portion, the bit that is directly based on Fleming's outline, is a selfcontained second act (the Pussy Galore content being the first act), and is only connected with the main plot by the skimpiest logic. I'm not even sure I understand it. SMERSH and Jason Sin wish to beat the USA in the Space Race. They also want to prove superiority in all technology, so they sabotage a car-race so that their entrant (and his vehicle) will win. Sin just happens to be there, even though that's nothing to do with his mission to sabotage the rocket.

The Pussy Galore section is even more selfcontained. It has nothing to do with what follows (although Bonds racetrack training overlaps it), and the baddies who try to kill Pussy are completely unrelated with SMERSH or Sin. So really the book is three separate episodes, that only just barely connect.
I guess I don't mind that. The book chronologically precedes For Your Eyes Only, which I believe was "five further episodes from the life of James Bond". So the unused Fleming story which could have been part of that book becomes one section of another episodic book. The only difference being the three separate stories are presented as overlapping parts of one bigger story. Its just too bad the Fleming content turns out to be so ultimately unimportant to the final plot.

43

Re: Members' reviews of "Trigger Mortis" (spoilers)

I note in the acknowledgements, he thanks his friend Nick Mason for introducing him to the world of the Grand Prix, giving him access to his library, and his collection of vintage cars at Ten Tenths near Cirencester, including Nick's own Maserati 250F
I presume that would be Pink Floyd's drummer, a well known race car enthusiast, collector and competitor?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Mason
I think that would make this book the only James Bond/Pink Floyd crossover

EDIT: yes it is, Ten Tenths has its own website, with a page for Nick Mason:
http://www.tentenths.co.uk/nick-mason/

Last edited by caractacus potts (23rd Oct 2017 21:48)

44

Re: Members' reviews of "Trigger Mortis" (spoilers)

caractacus potts wrote:

I think that would make this book the only James Bond/Pink Floyd crossover

Unless you count Michael Kamen!

45

Re: Members' reviews of "Trigger Mortis" (spoilers)

caractacus potts wrote:
Barbel wrote:

(Side note- did you ever see the film of "Poodle Springs", with James Caan as Marlowe? It took very little from either Chandler or Parker.)

didn't know there was such a film. Seems funny somebody would adapt that when there's several proper Chandler novels that have yet to be filmed, or if they were are so obscure, or so poorly done, they might as well be remade. For example, the Altman/Gould version of The Long Goodbye barely qualifies as a proper adaptation and could stand a more faithful remake.

I don't think Playback has ever been filmed, but all the others have- some poorly as you say, and some more than once.

46

Re: Members' reviews of "Trigger Mortis" (spoilers)

having recently skimmed through Goldfinger, I'm thinking all the Pussy Galore content in this book is doubly odd.
Because Pussy Galore is just about the least developed of all the FlemingGirls. She is introduced barely twenty pages before the book's end, and is, I think, very unpersuasively written. So why should we believe Bond invites her of all BondGirls to move back to his London flat?
The cult of this character is from Honour Blackman's portrayal in the film, not because of the character's role in the book. And yet in the film, she is not explicitly a lesbian, which is the ultimate point in Horowitz's plot thread for the character.

In the books it is Tiffany Case who really does move in with Bond. FRWL tells us he actually spent a full year living with her. This really is a chapter in Bond's life begging for some fanfic exploration, perhaps second only to whatever happened in Vladivostock. And we can tell from DaF Fleming does like this character, he is much more interested in writing about her than in whatever gangster plot the book is supposed to be about. And Bond is much more interested than usual: Bond tells himself he cannot just seduce and abandon this one, and so he lives with her for a year.

The two characters are rather similar. Both tuff talking dames involved in the gangs, both survivors of sexual assaults in their respective childhoods who as a consequence have avoided men. Both talk in Fleming's Englishman's idea of how an American dame talks (no doubt from having watched some of that film noir). But Bond just does not seem to care that much about Pussy in the last pages of Goldfinger, and I don't think he'd repeat the cohabitation experiment after his experiences with Tiffany (whom he called neurotic after she left him).

47

Re: Members' reviews of "Trigger Mortis" (spoilers)

caractacus potts wrote:

. But Bond just does not seem to care that much about Pussy …...

   ajb007/amazed  ajb007/amazed  ajb007/amazed  ajb007/shifty

48

Re: Members' reviews of "Trigger Mortis" (spoilers)

duh whoops, what I meant to say is, uh, er…
Bond doesn't care about Pussy as a person, but rather just for her anatomical namesake.
Darn Fleming language where one word means two different things.