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Topic: Fixing Cubby Broccoli's EON productions Bad Films ?

For an open discussion, for all those who've spotted faults in the films, either  Not getting
the right director or script writer, etc. Why not post here the problem in the film, and then
your solution to it, as without a solution it's not " Constructive Criticism "  It's just Criticism. ajb007/wink
So here's your chance to show the rest of us how much better your film would have been !  ajb007/biggrin
I'm certain many of us are interested in how you'd "Fix" these films.  I think we could all learn
something.

"Let his death be a particularly unpleasant and humiliating one."

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Re: Fixing Cubby Broccoli's EON productions Bad Films ?

Great idea!  ajb007/cheers

"You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"

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Re: Fixing Cubby Broccoli's EON productions Bad Films ?

There's some technical stuff in the earlier pictures that I'd fix- some unsynchronised dubbing for example (a fairly easy fix, assuming the soundtrack has been kept separate), and maybe a special effect or two (no idea how to fix those), and some too sharp edits (eg when 007 awakes in Helga's cabin)- but that's about it for me.

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Re: Fixing Cubby Broccoli's EON productions Bad Films ?

all I'd like is less "Bond is emotionally/personally connected with his missions"
solution: cut it out

"You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"

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Re: Fixing Cubby Broccoli's EON productions Bad Films ?

Here's how I'd fix Casino Royale (since I believe they messed up their last chance to make an adaptation of the only untouched—by EoN—novel):

- Keep Pierce Brosnan
- Open with a gunbarrel sequence
- Have an standalone exciting sequence for the opening titles like FRWL, GF and TB have
- After the titles tell the story of how Le Chiffre loses the money in a bad investment. Doesn't have to be brothels, but maybe something like a company involved in a scandal. But keep it simple and don't involve Bond.
- Bond meets M at the office to find out his mission
- Place the casino somewhere more interesting so it's more like in the novel. Probably France like in the novel, and then have Bond take the Eurostar through the Channel Tunnel for a different kind of train ride
- Change the card game to chemin de fer
- Expand on the very brief car chase to have more action
- Develop the love story more so it's more believable
- Bond succeeds at his mission and doesn't lose the money at the end. He doesn't need to lose both the girl and his mission.
- Get someone else to rewrite the atrocious dialogue between Bond and Vesper (not sure how to improve this one specifically)

Getting rid of a lot of the action in the first half of the CR film would cut down the unnecessary 144 minute run time. The film could be 20-25 minutes shorter and still be long enough.

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Re: Fixing Cubby Broccoli's EON productions Bad Films ?

Barbel wrote:

There's some technical stuff in the earlier pictures that I'd fix- some unsynchronised dubbing for example (a fairly easy fix, assuming the soundtrack has been kept separate), and maybe a special effect or two (no idea how to fix those), and some too sharp edits (eg when 007 awakes in Helga's cabin)- but that's about it for me.

Considering how many characters were dubbed they did a pretty good job with the dubbing. But fixing the faults would be pretty easy indeed.

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Re: Fixing Cubby Broccoli's EON productions Bad Films ?

ajb007/cheers  some interesting ideas  ajb007/martini  and some probably would help to
Tweak the films.

"Let his death be a particularly unpleasant and humiliating one."

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Re: Fixing Cubby Broccoli's EON productions Bad Films ?

Matt S wrote:

Considering how many characters were dubbed they did a pretty good job with the dubbing. But fixing the faults would be pretty easy indeed.

Some of the dubbing is superbly done, as you say. All credit to Nikki van der Zyl & co!  ajb007/cheers

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Re: Fixing Cubby Broccoli's EON productions Bad Films ?

Matt S wrote:

Here's how I'd fix Casino Royale (since I believe they messed up their last chance to make an adaptation of the only untouched—by EoN—novel)

Having "argued" with you about Casino Royale before, I think I would have liked this movie quite a lot.  ajb007/martini

"I'm afraid I'm a complicated woman. "
"- That is something to be afraid of."

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Re: Fixing Cubby Broccoli's EON productions Bad Films ?

Ornithologist wrote:
Matt S wrote:

Here's how I'd fix Casino Royale (since I believe they messed up their last chance to make an adaptation of the only untouched—by EoN—novel)

Having "argued" with you about Casino Royale before, I think I would have liked this movie quite a lot.  ajb007/martini

I'll now have to come up with how to make DAD into a decent film. The number 1 thing for me would be to remove all the sci-fi elements from it. I don't mind the satellite, but it's just too unoriginal for Bond.

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Re: Fixing Cubby Broccoli's EON productions Bad Films ?

This is great, turning a negative into a positive.  ajb007/martini  instead of just pointing out
what you have a problem with, you provide a solution.  ajb007/cheers

"Let his death be a particularly unpleasant and humiliating one."

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Re: Fixing Cubby Broccoli's EON productions Bad Films ?

We talked about this in the Double Oz Seven recap of the film. I love For Your Eyes Only, but an instant fix for some poor characters and improved drama in the climax would be to keep the Countess around and take Bibi out. Imagine if instead of the Countess dying she is simply kidnapped by Kristatos' men and it is her held prisoner at the end instead of Bibi. It would make the audience care a little more about the "rescue" in the end. That also gives Colombo even more of a purpose in the climax and makes his feud with Kristatos even stronger. I think that would take FYEO from a top 10 to possibly top 5 film.

On top of that dispense with several of the meaningless action scenes early on. not that they are bad sequences, but it all becomes cluttered in the first half of the film.

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Re: Fixing Cubby Broccoli's EON productions Bad Films ?

Some very good ideas  ajb007/martini

"Let his death be a particularly unpleasant and humiliating one."

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Re: Fixing Cubby Broccoli's EON productions Bad Films ?

Thunderpussy wrote:

This is great, turning a negative into a positive.  ajb007/martini  instead of just pointing out
what you have a problem with, you provide a solution.  ajb007/cheers


Jeez Louise ! You take a sabbatical and entropy takes hold. TP peddling peace love and understanding, and everyone trying to crane their necks to get jiggy with the other fella's viewpoint...I guess I can get with the programme, drink the coolade and pull up a cushion

Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.

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Re: Fixing Cubby Broccoli's EON productions Bad Films ?

I'll start with the two weaker Craig flims:

Quantum of Solace -- Replace the hyperkinetic, seizure-inducing editing with more traditional editing.  Include flashback scenes with Vesper (which would also solve the only real problem I have with Casino Royale, which is a lack of substantive development of the romance), let Mathis bow out gracefully rather than die in a what is an incredibly muddy scene about whether he was a traitor or not, develop Green as an actual villain rather than a 21st century Snidely Whiplash, and replace the awful theme song with something more traditional, like the Shirley Bassey song.    Keep the gunbarrel at the end, but suggest that the Bond series proper is beginning again and for real this time.

Skyfall -- Less exposition and more showing.  Show us Bond as a child; dramatize what is mostly given in expository dialogue (the priest hole scene, for instance).  Make Silva less like the Joker.  Get rid of the illogic:  Silva can hack the most protected computer system in England, but he can't hack a laptop?  Decide on what overarching theme you want -- age or obsolescence, because you keep drifting back and forth between them.  Don't rip off Straw Dogs. Or The Dark Knight. Or Star Trek II.  Or The Silence of the Lambs.   Ask yourself if we really should end the film as though we're staring over for the third time.  Ask Adele to enunciate.

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Re: Fixing Cubby Broccoli's EON productions Bad Films ?

How to fix Die Another Day:

- Remove the weird tint or whatever it is in the North Korea scenes.
- Improve the quality of green screen during the hovercraft chase.
- Change the song
- Do not include torture scenes in the credits. Keep it as it always has been; not part of the movie, maybe foreshadowing, but not actually what is happening.
- Make Mochael Madsen's character less annoying/give him a personality
- Actually show Bond has suffered from torture (he definitely wouldn't come out of 14 months of torture still built up like he was)
- Remove the techno soundtrack, make it more traditional
- Have Wai Lin in Hong Kong to meet Bond, maybe at the hotel
- Remove the scene where the guy holds the gun to the waiter. I know this scene is important as it leads to Bond using him to get on the island, but do it differently, maybe have him say something to Bond that would actually annoy him.
- Re cast Jinx, and give her a better personality and actually make her good at her job as an agent.
- Remove the sex scene
- Take away the stuff about the doctor changing DNA. Not only is this out of place in a Bond film, it also has no purpose.
- Just have Zao in a normal patients room, not in some stupid villain lair inside a flipping hospital.
- Don't make Zao an albino (keep him bald with diamonds in his face though).
- Speed up all the slow motion scenes (these look incredibly dated now)
- Don't have Jinx dive off the side of that cliff
- Remove the sleep machine and the insomnia stuff
- Take away the Madonna cameo; distracting - just have a normal actress in the role
- Make the tube station set look more realistic
- Take away the invisibility on the car
- Have Jinx use that beautiful Thunderbird at some point
- Make the villain plot more interesting (and less like the Conery plots with a big space laser)
- Don't have that stupid laser scene and don't have the crappy dialogue in that scene and not have Jinx be so f****** incompetent at her job!
- Move the dragster scene to earlier in the film (having Bknd try it out and beat Graves' time, increasing tension and maybe with some good humour about it).
- Take out the tsunami scene; have Bond escape and go straight into the car chase
- Have Jinx actually being useful, having a fight with Miranda or something
- Take out the plane scene. Have Bond return to the ice palace, with Graves starting his plan (his different plan) and Bond blowing up the place or something and escaping with Jinx
- Have a final chase scene in the Thunderbird with the jet skis
- No virtual reality Moneypenny scene
- Have a final scene with M and Michael Madsen or something, similar to the old scenes with Gogol and M in the Moore films.

1.LTK  2.AVTAK  3.OP  4.FYEO  5.TND  6.LALD  7.GE  8.GF  9.TSWLM  10.SPECTRE  11.SF  12.MR 13.YOLT  14.TLD  15.CR (06)  16.TMWTGG  17.TB  18.FRWL  19.TWINE  20.OHMSS  21.DAF  22.DAD  23.QoS  24.NSNA  25.DN  26.CR (67)

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Re: Fixing Cubby Broccoli's EON productions Bad Films ?

Matt S wrote:

Here's how I'd fix Casino Royale (since I believe they messed up their last chance to make an adaptation of the only untouched—by EoN—novel):

- Keep Pierce Brosnan
- Open with a gunbarrel sequence
- Have an standalone exciting sequence for the opening titles like FRWL, GF and TB have
- After the titles tell the story of how Le Chiffre loses the money in a bad investment. Doesn't have to be brothels, but maybe something like a company involved in a scandal. But keep it simple and don't involve Bond.
- Bond meets M at the office to find out his mission
- Place the casino somewhere more interesting so it's more like in the novel. Probably France like in the novel, and then have Bond take the Eurostar through the Channel Tunnel for a different kind of train ride
- Change the card game to chemin de fer
- Expand on the very brief car chase to have more action
- Develop the love story more so it's more believable
- Bond succeeds at his mission and doesn't lose the money at the end. He doesn't need to lose both the girl and his mission.
- Get someone else to rewrite the atrocious dialogue between Bond and Vesper (not sure how to improve this one specifically)

Getting rid of a lot of the action in the first half of the CR film would cut down the unnecessary 144 minute run time. The film could be 20-25 minutes shorter and still be long enough.

Then just make the Republican Party in charge of the movie.

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Re: Fixing Cubby Broccoli's EON productions Bad Films ?

Here are my changes

DN - bigger budget for better dragon scene
FRWL - cut out the catfighting and misogyny
GF - none
TB - Shave 10 mins off the third act
YOLT - None
OHMSS - None
DAF - Entirely new script , tell Connery to get his act together
LALD - Trim the chase by a few minutes
TMWTGG - Rewrite the script to something more serious like FYEO , Dont force Moore to act out of character
TSWLM - Recast villain
MR - Rewrite script
FYEO - Cut out Blofeld, Thatcher and Bibi.  Recast villain.
OP - None
AVTAK - Revise script.  Hire Dalton.
TLD - Recast villain and Bond girl too
LTK - Make first 20 mins less generic
GE - None
TND - Rewrite.  Recast villain.
TWINE - No Christmas Jones
DAD - Different director
CR06 - None
QOS - No writers strike
SF - Better writer.

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Re: Fixing Cubby Broccoli's EON productions Bad Films ?

Absolutely_Cart wrote:
Matt S wrote:

Here's how I'd fix Casino Royale (since I believe they messed up their last chance to make an adaptation of the only untouched—by EoN—novel):

- Keep Pierce Brosnan
- Open with a gunbarrel sequence
- Have an standalone exciting sequence for the opening titles like FRWL, GF and TB have
- After the titles tell the story of how Le Chiffre loses the money in a bad investment. Doesn't have to be brothels, but maybe something like a company involved in a scandal. But keep it simple and don't involve Bond.
- Bond meets M at the office to find out his mission
- Place the casino somewhere more interesting so it's more like in the novel. Probably France like in the novel, and then have Bond take the Eurostar through the Channel Tunnel for a different kind of train ride
- Change the card game to chemin de fer
- Expand on the very brief car chase to have more action
- Develop the love story more so it's more believable
- Bond succeeds at his mission and doesn't lose the money at the end. He doesn't need to lose both the girl and his mission.
- Get someone else to rewrite the atrocious dialogue between Bond and Vesper (not sure how to improve this one specifically)

Getting rid of a lot of the action in the first half of the CR film would cut down the unnecessary 144 minute run time. The film could be 20-25 minutes shorter and still be long enough.

Then just make the Republican Party in charge of the movie.

Not a fan of the novel, are you?

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Re: Fixing Cubby Broccoli's EON productions Bad Films ?

Matt S wrote:

Here's how I'd fix Casino Royale (since I believe they messed up their last chance to make an adaptation of the only untouched—by EoN—novel):

- Keep Pierce Brosnan
- Open with a gunbarrel sequence
- Have an standalone exciting sequence for the opening titles like FRWL, GF and TB have
- After the titles tell the story of how Le Chiffre loses the money in a bad investment. Doesn't have to be brothels, but maybe something like a company involved in a scandal. But keep it simple and don't involve Bond.
- Bond meets M at the office to find out his mission
- Place the casino somewhere more interesting so it's more like in the novel. Probably France like in the novel, and then have Bond take the Eurostar through the Channel Tunnel for a different kind of train ride
- Change the card game to chemin de fer
- Expand on the very brief car chase to have more action
- Develop the love story more so it's more believable
- Bond succeeds at his mission and doesn't lose the money at the end. He doesn't need to lose both the girl and his mission.
- Get someone else to rewrite the atrocious dialogue between Bond and Vesper (not sure how to improve this one specifically)

Getting rid of a lot of the action in the first half of the CR film would cut down the unnecessary 144 minute run time. The film could be 20-25 minutes shorter and still be long enough.


LOVE IT!

"Like any great artist, I want to create an undisputed masterpiece in my lifetime."

1. MR 2. TSWLM 3. GE 4. TND 5. DN 6. GF 7. TWINE 8.OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. LTK

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Re: Fixing Cubby Broccoli's EON productions Bad Films ?

My first priority would be to fix TMWTGG because it has so much potential with a strong cast, gorgeous locations, and many great scenes and dialog.

The first half is fairly solid, I just have a couple minor fixes:

1. When Bond gets called into M's office there are two experts there. Please let them explain Scaramanga's backstory instead of giving Bond a photographic memory. Bond should be there to listen and take orders, not run the meeting.  (See Moonraker's perfect example, "Just what I read in the papers, sir" taken from Fleming)

2. Beirut could use some exterior location shots so we feel like Bond actually has traveled somewhere outside the studio. Also, who are the henchmen and why do they fight Bond? (It's still a great fight scene..Roger's best IMO…and feels like the inspiration for the one in TND)


The second half is where things start to get out of hand:

3. Do not remove 3rd nipple in plain view of villains. Thankfully this bonehead move did not affect the plot.

4. Limit JW Pepper's appearance to a cameo. End it when he gets pushed in the water. Do NOT include him in the car chase.

5. Remove slide whistle from car jump. Add villagers as spectators.

6. Find a different way for Bond to be "ditched" at the karate school, because driving off without him is completely stupid. Better yet, don't even bother showing up in the first place with the 2 nieces. Just have Bond run across the bridge and jump in the boat.

7. Make Scaramanga more knowledgable about his own operation. Make Bond less knowledgeable about the science behind it.

8. Much of the final act is propelled by Mary Goodnight's ineptitude. She gets kidnapped with the solex which causes Bond to follow Scaramanga. She pushes the worker into the vat causing the plant to blow up, and even bumps the solar panel controls which almost kill Bond during retrieval of the solex.  I don't have a quick fix for this, but it should be changed to where Goodnight is helpful.

9.  Have more debate on if Scaramanga is worth going after once Bond realizes it has been a set up. At least run it past M to see what he thinks! 

10. Have a different, happier fate for Nic Nack. I'm not a big fan of the final bedroom fight. Or that M is able to suddenly call Scaramanga on the phone.  Sloppy writing.

"Like any great artist, I want to create an undisputed masterpiece in my lifetime."

1. MR 2. TSWLM 3. GE 4. TND 5. DN 6. GF 7. TWINE 8.OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. LTK

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Re: Fixing Cubby Broccoli's EON productions Bad Films ?

Absolute_cart the idea of this thread is to give your ideas on how to
Fix Bond films you have problems with.  ajb007/wink  I thought you'd have been over
Here like a shot ( as you seem to have so many problems with so many
Bond films )  ajb007/lol , but apart from a joke at the excellent post from  Matt S....
..... Nothing !  ajb007/crap
  Could it be your skill lies in belittling the ideas of others, yet having none
of your own to replace them with ?  ajb007/wink

Once again guys some wonderful ideas, that even I grudgingly think could
help tweak, the story lines a little.  ajb007/martini

"Let his death be a particularly unpleasant and humiliating one."

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Re: Fixing Cubby Broccoli's EON productions Bad Films ?

Firemass wrote:

My first priority would be to fix TMWTGG because it has so much potential with a strong cast, gorgeous locations, and many great scenes and dialog.

The first half is fairly solid, I just have a couple minor fixes:

1. When Bond gets called into M's office there are two experts there. Please let them explain Scaramanga's backstory instead of giving Bond a photographic memory. Bond should be there to listen and take orders, not run the meeting.  (See Moonraker's perfect example, "Just what I read in the papers, sir" taken from Fleming)

2. Beirut could use some exterior location shots so we feel like Bond actually has traveled somewhere outside the studio. Also, who are the henchmen and why do they fight Bond? (It's still a great fight scene..Roger's best IMO…and feels like the inspiration for the one in TND)


The second half is where things start to get out of hand:

3. Do not remove 3rd nipple in plain view of villains. Thankfully this bonehead move did not affect the plot.

4. Limit JW Pepper's appearance to a cameo. End it when he gets pushed in the water. Do NOT include him in the car chase.

5. Remove slide whistle from car jump. Add villagers as spectators.

6. Find a different way for Bond to be "ditched" at the karate school, because driving off without him is completely stupid. Better yet, don't even bother showing up in the first place with the 2 nieces. Just have Bond run across the bridge and jump in the boat.

7. Make Scaramanga more knowledgable about his own operation. Make Bond less knowledgeable about the science behind it.

8. Much of the final act is propelled by Mary Goodnight's ineptitude. She gets kidnapped with the solex which causes Bond to follow Scaramanga. She pushes the worker into the vat causing the plant to blow up, and even bumps the solar panel controls which almost kill Bond during retrieval of the solex.  I don't have a quick fix for this, but it should be changed to where Goodnight is helpful.

9.  Have more debate on if Scaramanga is worth going after once Bond realizes it has been a set up. At least run it past M to see what he thinks! 

10. Have a different, happier fate for Nic Nack. I'm not a big fan of the final bedroom fight. Or that M is able to suddenly call Scaramanga on the phone.  Sloppy writing.

I agree with most of this! TMWTGG has so much potential and is great but could be considered one of the best with some changes. I would also extend Hai Fat's character and make Lieutenant Hip a stronger ally.

A change I am sticking by for Diamonds are Forever. Have Bond kill Blofeld once and for all in the pre title sequence and make Charles Gray a totally different villain altogether. It was clear with Connery back and the change of tone that they were never going to live up to the revenge story that it should have been so fit Bond's revenge in to the pre title sequence and then let the goofy madness of DAF play out on its own with a new villain. It would eliminate the body double twists but other than that the film works fine with the change.

"Mango, banana and tangerine. Sugar and ackee and cocoa bean!"

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Re: Fixing Cubby Broccoli's EON productions Bad Films ?

DR NO-ah wrote:

I agree with most of this! TMWTGG has so much potential and is great but could be considered one of the best with some changes. I would also extend Hai Fat's character and make Lieutenant Hip a stronger ally.

Yes, I agree with both. Hai Fat was an under utilized, but great character…I liked his response to seeing Bond's 3rd nipple and pretending to go along with it. Also a great death scene as Scaramanga assembles his golden gun during their little business argument.

Correction: Now I remember Bond did notify M that Scaramanga did not want to kill him. However, I suppose Bond still had to follow thru with the mission due to the pursuit of the solex (conveniently his original energy crisis mission) as well as the retrieval of Goodnight.

"Like any great artist, I want to create an undisputed masterpiece in my lifetime."

1. MR 2. TSWLM 3. GE 4. TND 5. DN 6. GF 7. TWINE 8.OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. LTK

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Re: Fixing Cubby Broccoli's EON productions Bad Films ?

I would next like to try and fix Octopussy to near perfection:

1. Let Jim Fanning art expert explain the egg. There's no reason Bond should know all this detailed information.

2. Make marketplace fight more gritty and not filled with India cliches.

3. Remove all gags: tennis jokes, tarzan yell, muahaha, gorilla suit, fake tiger scream, etc

4. Bond annoys me in Q's lab, mainly because he repeats "Q" after every sentence. Also ditch the cleavage camera zoom.

5. Once again Maud Adams tries to recruit the services of 007. However, this time it gets ugly with Bond pulling a semi-rape in an otherwise very seductive film.  She could have simply invited him into bed without the drama. Also the camera angle on Rog during this aggressive scene makes him look extra crusty.

6. Make the faberge egg reappear in the end to provide closure to this main element of the story. Instead it is inexplicably dropped from the movie. General Gogol should be asking for the return of the egg instead of the Romanov Star.

"Like any great artist, I want to create an undisputed masterpiece in my lifetime."

1. MR 2. TSWLM 3. GE 4. TND 5. DN 6. GF 7. TWINE 8.OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. LTK